COVID-19 III: No Politics For Thee

[jazzbo]

1 hour ago, sonnymax said:

I didn't think you were drawing a conclusion of causality (you're too smart for that). I just thought it was important to point out that the message of the OP's source differs significantly from that of responsible journalists.

Okay and I thought you were disputing that he had received the vaccine, which I had read about before his death.

I am taking a liberty here and pasting in louis satchmo's post about his allergic reaction. This is a serious reaction!

"Had a severe allergic reaction to the Covid vaccine. Thankfully, I'm married to a doctor otherwise I would have ended up in the ER.

From the moment I got home yesterday morning my body hurt as I had been in a car crash. I started throwing up around 930 am ETS and proceeded to do so every two hours. I couldn't eat or drink. Even just chipped ice was too much for my stomach to hold down.

Then there was diarrhea. @ one point I was on the "throne" and vomiting @ the same time. I tried to go to bed early @ 4pm, but suddenly my body temperature was going crazy hot. Even in just shorts, and dropping the house temperature to 65 which made it cold for everyone else, I was on fire and sweating.That's when I was now vomiting every 20 to 90 minutes. Every time I vomited my body gets even hotter and then sweats and chills.Of course, as tired as I felt, I couldn't sleep. Not going to sleep that early, on fire and vomiting.

Finally, fell asleep around 10 when my body temp went back to @ least warm.

I knew I was going to vomit because my body would hot and then my stomach would make noises or constrict. I finally hadn't vomited in two hours and tried to drink some Gatorade because I was dehydrated.I was in bed 3 minutes I vomited all that up. The thing is I vomited about a third to a quarter of one of those desk garbage can's which I had near me in bed.

I barely drank anything and didn't eat. Lots of acid and bile came up and even some food from I don't know where.

The acid burning my throat making it hard to swallow. There were also dry heaves to be followed by vomiting minutes later.

I tried again with the Gatorade around 3 and didn't vomit until 6:30 this morning.

So, that's an improvement and there was no Gatorade in it. Just bile. @ least, my body absorbed half a mouthful of that.

Shannon thinks it's affecting my inner ear as well. Anytime I move too quickly to get up, roll in bed, or just my head, I need to vomit.

Right now, don't think I'm taking the 2nd shot."

Edited January 23, 2021 by jazzbo

[Brad]

The problem with posting the story that GA did is that it implies there’s a causal connection between his taking the vaccine and his death. No connection has been established that it was the proximate cause of his death. It’s as if I went out to the grocery store and purchased some groceries and an hour later get into a car accident. Purchasing the groceries was not the proximate cause of the accident. 

[JSngry]

And even if it was, how often is that going to happen?

[Dan Gould]

48 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Okay and I thought you were disputing that he had received the vaccine, which I had read about before his death.

I am taking a liberty here and pasting in louis satchmo's post about his allergic reaction. This is a serious reaction!

"Had a severe allergic reaction to the Covid vaccine. Thankfully, I'm married to a doctor otherwise I would have ended up in the ER.

From the moment I got home yesterday morning my body hurt as I had been in a car crash. I started throwing up around 930 am ETS and proceeded to do so every two hours. I couldn't eat or drink. Even just chipped ice was too much for my stomach to hold down.

Then there was diarrhea. @ one point I was on the "throne" and vomiting @ the same time. I tried to go to bed early @ 4pm, but suddenly my body temperature was going crazy hot. Even in just shorts, and dropping the house temperature to 65 which made it cold for everyone else, I was on fire and sweating.That's when I was now vomiting every 20 to 90 minutes. Every time I vomited my body gets even hotter and then sweats and chills.Of course, as tired as I felt, I couldn't sleep. Not going to sleep that early, on fire and vomiting.

Finally, fell asleep around 10 when my body temp went back to @ least warm.

I knew I was going to vomit because my body would hot and then my stomach would make noises or constrict. I finally hadn't vomited in two hours and tried to drink some Gatorade because I was dehydrated.I was in bed 3 minutes I vomited all that up. The thing is I vomited about a third to a quarter of one of those desk garbage can's which I had near me in bed.

I barely drank anything and didn't eat. Lots of acid and bile came up and even some food from I don't know where.

The acid burning my throat making it hard to swallow. There were also dry heaves to be followed by vomiting minutes later.

I tried again with the Gatorade around 3 and didn't vomit until 6:30 this morning.

So, that's an improvement and there was no Gatorade in it. Just bile. @ least, my body absorbed half a mouthful of that.

Shannon thinks it's affecting my inner ear as well. Anytime I move too quickly to get up, roll in bed, or just my head, I need to vomit.

Right now, don't think I'm taking the 2nd shot."

All of the stories I've heard of reactions is anaphalactic kind - constricted throat, if you keep an epi-pen handy, take it with you kind of thing. So this person's reaction is not only extreme but in terms I hadn't heard of before.

[JSngry]

And maybe it was not a reaction to the vaccine? Or maybe it was. But if it was, it's not one of a type that's been documented in a way that I've seen. Which doesn't mean a lot...

But if his wife is a doctor, surely she would report this, surely there is a protocol in place for such things.

Surely?

There's anecdotal "causality" and then there's provable causality. With this Warp Speed process, it's more than a little important to determine which is which. So I would hope this guy's case is undergoing further review, because "I took it and nearly died" just by itself doesn't really help anything or anybody.

[Big Beat Steve]

About the allergic reaction of that "louis satchmo" that Jazzbo posted:

Which brand of vaccine was he given?
Pfizer/Biontech or a different one? That might be important to know too.

[jazzbo]

I don't know. Louis is a member here who has moved to Facebook for posting. He was taken to the ER where his wife discovered and reported that his esophogus had torn due to the vomiting and he is resting and overall well. That's as much info as we are likely to get for a spell.

Some ex-members and perhaps members seem to think Louis (and by extension father and siblings) is a consummate liar. That is not my opinion.

Edited January 24, 2021 by jazzbo

[Dmitry]

14 hours ago, Brad said:

The problem with posting the story that GA did is that it implies there’s a causal connection between his taking the vaccine and his death. No connection has been established that it was the proximate cause of his death. It’s as if I went out to the grocery store and purchased some groceries and an hour later get into a car accident. Purchasing the groceries was not the proximate cause of the accident. 

Did you inject the said groceries into your flesh? 

When i was effused, infused and CAT scanned in the ER, one of the nursing staff said to me she wasn't getting vaccinated, because she didn't feel like injecting anything into her body that was 'thrown in together in a few weeks', without an appropriately-long trial. 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

Did you inject the said groceries into your flesh? 

When i was effused, infused and CAT scanned in the ER, one of the nursing staff said to me she wasn't getting vaccinated, because she didn't feel like injecting anything into her body that was 'thrown in together in a few weeks', without an appropriately-long trial. 

This is pretty ridiculous to hear. The testing for safety and efficacy were not shortened in any way shape or form. The people who took the risk are the ones who signed up to be guinea pigs as they were the ones who could reasonably think that it was "thrown together in a few weeks" - even though it wasn't, as they followed the established protocols for testing for safety, and then efficacy, and then the large-scale testing.

It is very disheartening that medical professionals are saying this, or destroying doses for supposed threat to DNA.

And this is, by the way, for vaccines that, if I recall correctly, and forgive me if this only applies to one of the vaccines and not the total of all approved vaccines but:

N = 33000

"Severe" cases of Covid = 1

2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

 

Some ex-members and perhaps members seem to think Louis (and by extension father and siblings) is a consummate liar. That is not my opinion.

Yes, a former (banned) member is casting aspersions due to supposed prior lies told at JazzCorner. 

Regardless, it's still entirely unclear how an injection caused such violent gastro-intestinal problems, and so quickly. Known side-effects seem to be the anaphalactic reaction, and normally mild flu-like symptoms. Not violent retching etc etc. seemingly in less than hour after injection?

Edited January 24, 2021 by Dan Gould

[mjazzg]

39 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

This is pretty ridiculous to hear. The testing for safety and efficacy were not shortened in any way shape or form. The people who took the risk are the ones who signed up to be guinea pigs as they were the ones who could reasonably think that it was "thrown together in a few weeks" - even though it wasn't, as they followed the established protocols for testing for safety, and then efficacy, and then the large-scale testing.

It is very disheartening that medical professionals are saying this, or destroying doses for supposed threat to DNA.

 

Exactly this

[jazzbo]

5 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

Regardless, it's still entirely unclear how an injection caused such violent gastro-intestinal problems, and so quickly. Known side-effects seem to be the anaphalactic reaction, and normally mild flu-like symptoms. Not violent retching etc etc. seemingly in less than hour after injection?

I did some quick research. This sort of reaction can happen it seems in one in a million injectons. I don't have a dog in the hunt other than to say that this was reported to have happened to someone I "know" and it's scary to imagine this happening to someone older and less healthy. I'm not saying that it has to be COVID related--could have been some other reason at the health facility etc. Nor is it deterring me from being vaccinated when I can. What does resonate for me is that this is what my father went through for day when he did have COVID. . . and he is still plagued by this occassionaly to a lesser extent to this day two months later. This COVID is a horrible illness. Horrible.

 

Edit to add: Foud out: it was the Pfizer vaccine I've learned, the subject does have some allergies and was thus riskier than others, his reaction is noted as very unusual and will be followed and studied.

Edited January 24, 2021 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

One in a million is odds I can live with!

Also...God knows that nurses and other hospital staffs are the soul of the nation, especially now, but..."gut instinct" is useful for a lot of things. But a lot is not all.

I get the wariness about the "Warp Speed" element (and still have some of those same feelings). But it does look like this process has been vetted from enough angles and enough motivations that I'm willing to look at it as a necessary starting point, so let's get busy getting it done.

[David Ayers]

I documented the effects of the AZ vaccine on me in the other thread. It was flu-like but certainly not mild. The worst part was a severe headache and high temp, but my whole body hurt though I was only mildly nauseous. The vaccine information leaflet did list my symptoms. The NHS website emphatically did not, and even said that if you did get a high temp after the vaccine it could be Covid and you should get a test. I conclude from the false account on the NHS website that there is a conscious strategy of playing down the potential side effects. People are reporting these effects on social media, including hospitalisation. I think that I should have been properly warned what to expect (and how to deal with it) at the point of vaccination. The aim of suppressing the facts is to ensure that uptake remains high. I get it, but as reality conflicts with the official version suspicion will be increased. I also checked to see whether the vaccines had been tested on people who like me are defined as ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’. They have not. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by David Ayers

[GA Russell]

"Twenty-three people died in Norway within days of receiving their first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths — all nursing home patients — apparently related to the side effects of the shots, health officials said."

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

[David Ayers]

At least Norway are collecting data on reactions. Not so in UK where there is no follow-up and not even a contact number. 

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, GA Russell said:

"Twenty-three people died in Norway within days of receiving their first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths — all nursing home patients — apparently related to the side effects of the shots, health officials said."

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

The key quote I think is this

"a small exception for the frailest patients.”

The Guardian reported these deaths as being amongst the very oldest. I'll try and find the reference.  I know it was of great worry to my friend whose mother is 106. She is doing fine after her vaccination.

 

Reputable source here highlights frailty and terminal illness as key risk factors

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n167

2 hours ago, David Ayers said:

I documented the effects of the AZ vaccine on me in the other thread. It was flu-like but certainly not mild. The worst part was a severe headache and high temp, but my whole body hurt though I was only mildly nauseous. The vaccine information leaflet did list my symptoms. The NHS website emphatically did not, and even said that if you did get a high temp after the vaccine it could be Covid and you should get a test. I conclude from the false account on the NHS website that there is a conscious strategy of playing down the potential side effects. People are reporting these effects on social media, including hospitalisation. I think that I should have been properly warned what to expect (and how to deal with it) at the point of vaccination. The aim of suppressing the facts is to ensure that uptake remains high. I get it, but as reality conflicts with the official version suspicion will be increased. I also checked to see whether the vaccines had been tested on people who like me are defined as ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’. They have not. 

Hope you're feeling better?

[David Ayers]

35 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Hope you're feeling better?

Bit washed out and achy but basically fine. I can see how this might do some damage to a frail person, though, the same way that flu does. Flu, that is, not the flu vaccine. 

 

If there have been deaths in Norway that must have occurred elsewhere - but it is not reported. 

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, David Ayers said:

I documented the effects of the AZ vaccine on me in the other thread. It was flu-like but certainly not mild. The worst part was a severe headache and high temp, but my whole body hurt though I was only mildly nauseous. The vaccine information leaflet did list my symptoms. The NHS website emphatically did not, and even said that if you did get a high temp after the vaccine it could be Covid and you should get a test. I conclude from the false account on the NHS website that there is a conscious strategy of playing down the potential side effects. People are reporting these effects on social media, including hospitalisation. I think that I should have been properly warned what to expect (and how to deal with it) at the point of vaccination. The aim of suppressing the facts is to ensure that uptake remains high. I get it, but as reality conflicts with the official version suspicion will be increased. I also checked to see whether the vaccines had been tested on people who like me are defined as ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’. They have not. 

I have a feeling that your feedback won't be liked by some or even many in certain circles (not here on the forum but overall) but IMO ist is important that you told of your expriences. What you describe is an uneasy feeling that unfortunately seems to exist over here too. I.e. a feeling of "we are not being told the whole story". Unfortunately (for the poltiicians) the majority of the citizens aren't that dumb. Even though most of the "people in the street" do not fall for conspirationist theories, once that feeling of your trust being shattered or abused is there this is harder to remedy than those in power apparently are likely to imagine. (Or they are more at their wit's end than we'd like and hope them to be)
 

[JSngry]

5 hours ago, David Ayers said:

At least Norway are collecting data on reactions. Not so in UK where there is no follow-up and not even a contact number. 

That is unconscionable.

[Dan Gould]

Well heaven help me and my sister if Mom suffers or dies because we pushed her to get vaccinated.

Apparently her doctor (who sucks in our opinion) switched to offering a 'concierge' option go go along with his current 'Medicare Mill' practice a year or two ago. Mom wouldn't go for the concierge option and that's why the doctor's office is leaving her high and dry on getting the shot, sink or swim, find it on your own, lady. 

Speaking of which I'll be back online early Wed morning trying to get her in at Publix.

[Brad]

This concierge thing is a way people are using to jump the line.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/08/world/covid-19-coronavirus/heres-how-the-wealthy-are-trying-to-jump-the-line-in-the-vaccine-rollout

[Dan Gould]

10 minutes ago, Brad said:

This concierge thing is a way people are using to jump the line.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/08/world/covid-19-coronavirus/heres-how-the-wealthy-are-trying-to-jump-the-line-in-the-vaccine-rollout

But it isn't really clear that concierge doctors are even getting the stuff in the first place.  I am nevertheless not surprised that patients paying $20,000 a year (Mom' option was definitely less than that) to expect that this would be covered and expedited too. 

[medjuck]

14 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

But it isn't really clear that concierge doctors are even getting the stuff in the first place.  I am nevertheless not surprised that patients paying $20,000 a year (Mom' option was definitely less than that) to expect that this would be covered and expedited too. 

I know someone in their early 70s who has donated $1million dollars to a local hospital.  He asked about an appointment and they put him on the list for when his turn would normally come up. He was impressed with their fairness. I'm scheduled before him because I'm over 75 and I don't think I've ever donated to them. (It's a good hospital, but I think they pay their administrators way too much.) 

[Big Beat Steve]

2 minutes ago, medjuck said:

 He was impressed with their fairness.

I am impressed with HIS fairness in accepting (and apparently even applauding) their fairness. This isn't something you can count on in today's world anymore.

[sonnymax]

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