COVID-19 III: No Politics For Thee

[Brad]

1 hour ago, Rooster_Ties said:

What bothers me most is that opening back up considerably (even only half-way), with what will surely be at least some half-measures (admittedly mostly well-meaning, I’ll grant)... ...and probably further hampered by idiots who refuse to really social-distance (and/or wear masks), along with less ‘bad-meaning’ people who aren’t political about their actions, but who will unfortunately turn out in droves to beaches, and congregate in parks, and gather clandestinely for large or even just large-ish house-parties... Enough of all those bad-actors will surly result in the a resurgence of infections (is that the right term?), and a lot more deaths.

All unfortunately tacitly approved of by some people in positions of real power and authority, while they simultaneously send mixed signals about what we really should be doing as a country, and as individuals - to try and reduce the impact of this virus, to reduce the number of preventable deaths.

You can argue whether any particular loss was preventable (or not) - but what is not arguable is the overall number of preventable deaths (not a specific number, but a NOT-insignificant percentage, even if that number/percentage can’t be calculated with precision).

I’m trying to convey my exasperation with all of this, without getting political. And to be clear, I’m not crazily worried about my own health, or my wife’s. Or our families. We’re all doing what we can to minimize our own risks, without hermetically sealing ourselves into our small 1BR apartment (of ~630 sqft). Nor are any for us buying everything on Amazon, though we’re only making grocery runs about once every 5 days. (And the ONLY thing we’ve bought on-line since December is prescription cat food - about 4 months worth, just in case supply-lines get wonky.)

Too many in this country aren’t taking COVID-19 seriously enough, and the impact will be born disproportionally by those less fortunate to not be in positions where they can truly hunker down for a while (admittedly, a lot longer than most of us ever imagined).

In other words, it’s pretty easy to say “open everything up” when the odds aren’t stacked against you in the calculus of who will be most affected by all this.

It’s almost impossible not to get political because we have competing desires between trying to keep this disease at bay vs opening up the economy. You can’t do both. Cutting back on the former in favor of the latter is just going to lead to the former coming back in full force and worse economic consequences.  Take one step forward and two steps back. sometimes you have to learn the hard way.  The economy opening up is being pushed due to political considerations, nothing else.

[JSngry]

8 hours ago, Brad said:

The economy opening up is being pushed due to political considerations, nothing else.

Oooooooo…..I don't know about that.....in theory anyway, I could see, respect, and still totally disagree with people of principle who took the stance that the "pioneer spirit" (or some such thing) calls for us to bravely push ahead, that it's better to die on your feel than to live on your knees, that sort of thing, I totally get that. That does work, whether it be people coming out of Auschwitz , or off the plantation, or out of the rubble of Hiroshima, or up from the basement or under the floodwaters, there's something to be said about the inherent honor of just not backing down, never giving up fuck it all, we are going to survive ANYTHING. That spirit is to be applauded, furthered, and embraced.

Plus, yes, absolutely, people's livelihoods are at serious risk. And i do need a haircut. And my daughter does need to get back to the nail salon so she can start buying her own groceries again. So absolutely - people need to get back to work,

But ow to do that, though...protection protection protection. Testing testing testing. Managing managing managing. Governing. Fear of government is legit enough, but refusal to be governed is, in this situation, some weird combination of death wish and sociopathy.

We are not done seeing people die. That's kinda what happens in a pandemic, right? The question is - how do we get a handle on all of this, not to magically stop the dying (there's nothing magic about science and vaccines), but how do we have the least avoidable deaths and get the most people into a state of productivity while we do so?

Nothing at all intrinsically "political" about that. It should be an honest, gut-wrenching examination of debating principles based around neither medical not economic superstitions. It's damn hard choice with no good answer. Principle, not superstition, and definitely not the clownshow of persuasion through identity rape that is the devolved politics of today.

One of the many degradations of politics today is the notion that there is only one good choice. Nobody wants to admit that sometimes there are only bad choices. Nobody, it seems, is willing to make a bad choice and wear the humility of admitting that sometimes the best option is still a bad one. THAT'S politics, the deceit of getting people to go along with you in the lie that they're all good choices.

So - none of those politics here. We can debate principles out the ass, and we can give credit to peoples' gut instincts and driving principles w/o thinking that they've been brainwashed by certain types of media. And we can still joke.

Or maybe we can't.

[ejp626]

2 hours ago, bresna said:

... They had to protect our seemingly stupid general public.

I'm sorry to say, but in general, people are acting stupid right now.

Pretty much every place is going to have some percentage of people who will not follow the guidance/rules out of a combination of ignorance/cussedness.  How large that percentage is depends a lot on the culture (including political culture) of a place and how far "consent of the governed" really goes.  Looking at the huge anti-distancing rallies in Massachusetts is pretty wild (and depressing).  I'm less surprised to see it in Michigan and Wisconsin and other places where the rural interests have a long history of being listened to (pandered to?) unlike say a state like Illinois where they lost all influence decades ago.

I'm not gonna lie - I prefer being up north where there is a much deeper respect for authority and less automatic rocking of the boat.  It doesn't always pay off or work out, but right now it's keeping us much safer, all things being relative.

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, ejp626 said:

Pretty much every place is going to have some percentage of people who will not follow the guidance/rules out of a combination of ignorance/cussedness.  How large that percentage is depends a lot on the culture (including political culture) of a place and how far "consent of the governed" really goes.  Looking at the huge anti-distancing rallies in Massachusetts is pretty wild (and depressing).  I'm less surprised to see it in Michigan and Wisconsin and other places where the rural interests have a long history of being listened to (pandered to?) unlike say a state like Illinois where they lost all influence decades ago.

I'm not gonna lie - I prefer being up north where there is a much deeper respect for authority and less automatic rocking of the boat.  It doesn't always pay off or work out, but right now it's keeping us much safer, all things being relative.

The statistics as of this morning bear you out.

U.S. deaths per million population:  212

Canada deaths per million population:  102

U.S. infections per million population:  3,672

Canada infections per million population: 1,610

U.S. tests per million population:  22,706

Canada tests per million population:  24,359

(Source:  Worldometer Coronavirus tracking data)

So, Canada has half as many deaths on average, half as many cases on average, and has tested slightly more of its population on average than the U.S. has.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by ghost of miles

[David Ayers]

Meanwhile, one of the government’s lead scientists of lockdown has resigned after breaking lockdown:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/exclusive-government-scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/

 

Behind a paywall but you get the idea. 

Do they believe their own ‘advice’?

[Brad]

52 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Meanwhile, one of the government’s lead scientists of lockdown has resigned after breaking lockdown:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/exclusive-government-scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/

 

Behind a paywall but you get the idea. 

Do they believe their own ‘advice’?

It’s hard to get physical if there is a physical distance between you and your lover 

[JSngry]

Let me hear your body talk.

[felser]

2 hours ago, David Ayers said:

Meanwhile, one of the government’s lead scientists of lockdown has resigned after breaking lockdown:

Do they believe their own ‘advice’?

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by felser

[BillF]

11 hours ago, David Ayers said:

Meanwhile, one of the government’s lead scientists of lockdown has resigned after breaking lockdown:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/exclusive-government-scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/

 

Behind a paywall but you get the idea. 

Do they believe their own ‘advice’?

I preferred the Sun's headline:

PROF LOCKDOWN BROKE LOCKDOWN TO GET HIS TROUSERS DOWN

[David Ayers]

1 hour ago, BillF said:

I preferred the Sun's headline:

PROF LOCKDOWN BROKE LOCKDOWN TO GET HIS TROUSERS DOWN

 

Well the headline was inevitable. I guess he is not used to being a public figure and nobody explained to him that he needed to be a bit more careful. Maybe they did.

Government advice here is specific that you shouldn’t visit someone in order to hook up. He couldn’t be seen to be telling people one thing and doing another. He caught himself out unfortunately for him, and pulled other people into it. 

[catesta]

Different scenario, but Fauci sent mixed signals when asked about online hookups that lead to face to face meetings.

"If you're looking for a friend, sit in a room and put a mask on, and you know, chat a bit. If you want to go a little bit more intimate, well, then that's your choice regarding a risk."

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by catesta

[JSngry]

You're not going to get people to not fuck. More than enough of all types of evidence of that.

Hell, getting dudes just to wear a condom is still a work in progress, it seems.

But "contract tracing", isn't that what they do (or used to do with syphilis? We have a model, it just needs to be built to scale and brought up-t0o-date in terms of tech. Although it will take time and money, it seems that the "private sector" already has a lot of the pieces in place, including the data.

Lovin' those cell phones!

[catesta]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

You're not going to get people to not fuck. More than enough of all types of evidence of that.

Hell, getting dudes just to wear a condom is still a work in progress, it seems.

But "contract tracing", isn't that what they do (or used to do with syphilis? We have a model, it just needs to be built to scale and brought up-t0o-date in terms of tech. Although it will take time and money, it seems that the "private sector" already has a lot of the pieces in place, including the data.

Lovin' those cell phones!

I remember the talk early on implying this was going to be another....,wait for it....., "baby boom" thing, but I don't see that playing out.

I do wonder though how much amateur porn is being created, intentionally or unintentionally.

[JSngry]

10 minutes ago, catesta said:

I do wonder though how much amateur porn is being created, intentionally or unintentionally.

and you're worried about monetizing the COVID-EO economy?

[catesta]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:00 PM, Rooster_Ties said:

Verbatim headline from a local TV-news on-line story.

Michigan security guard shot and killed after asking Family Dollar shopper to wear a mask

> FLINT, Mich. (FOX 2) - The Genessee County Prosecutor's office said Monday afternoon that a Flint Family Dollar security guard who was killed on Friday was shot following a dispute with a customer who would not put on a mask in the store.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/woman-who-sparked-fight-over-mask-that-led-to-guards-shooting-death-arraigned-on-murder-charges

Pretty fucked up.

[BERIGAN]

On 5/5/2020 at 11:10 AM, ghost of miles said:

The statistics as of this morning bear you out.

U.S. deaths per million population:  212

Canada deaths per million population:  102

U.S. infections per million population:  3,672

Canada infections per million population: 1,610

U.S. tests per million population:  22,706

Canada tests per million population:  24,359

(Source:  Worldometer Coronavirus tracking data)

So, Canada has half as many deaths on average, half as many cases on average, and has tested slightly more of its population on average than the U.S. has.  

now, do the U.K, France, Spain and Italy compared to the U.S.

 

[Brad]

3 minutes ago, BERIGAN said:

now, do the U.K, France, Spain and Italy compared to the U.S.

 

Those four countries are ones that didn’t get on top of things promptly and they paid and are paying the price. The US and Spain are examples of countries with fractured political systems that impeded their responses. 

[David Ayers]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

Those four countries are ones that didn’t get on top of things promptly and they paid and are paying the price. The US and Spain are examples of countries with fractured political systems that impeded their responses. 

Whereas the UK is an example of [long political commentary removed by moderator - we won’t tell you again!] 

 

 

 

😉

[Brad]

Interesting article in today’s Times about how pandemics end.

How Pandemics End

[Dan Gould]

https://www.fastcompany.com/90501603/masks-prevent-the-spread-of-covid-19-landmark-analysis-of-64-studies-finds

[medjuck]

I carry a mask in my car and use it on shopping trips but every so often forget to wear it when interacting with people.  As soon as I realize it I feel terribly guilty because I could easily have gotten the virus, be asymptomatic and be spreading it to people I'm interfacing.  

[Brad]

I had to go down to Summit this afternoon to pick up some new wire for my turntable. Summit has a decent city-type of downtown. I was amazed by the number of people not wearing masks. 

[Coda]

Below is a list of working papers — preliminary versions of academic research –— by MIT Sloan faculty and PhD students related to the coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic. 

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/mit-sloan-research-about-coronavirus-pandemic?utm_campaign=news-mba-mban-mfin&utm_source=slate&utm_term=043020&utm_medium=email

[Brad]

Big time sports is back as the Bundesliga restarts. Hopefully, La Liga is back soon. 

[Soulstation1]

The Shopping Malls will open on Monday in Tucson