What do you think of jazz with strings?

[Hardbopjazz]

There have been many artists that have a album with strings.

Bird, Wes Montgomery, Stanley Turrentine and so many others.

Is this an attempt to grab a different audience or a seirous attempt to highlight the artists in a different light?

[Christiern]

There was a period when recording jazz soloists with string backgrounds enjoyed popularity. Some--the purists, I suppose--thought it was a sacrilege, but all you have to do is listen to Bird's "April in Paris." A great recording by any standard. Many musicianswanted to record with strings--it came to symbolize success, in a way. Of course it also broadened the market, but I don't think that was the main consideration.

[danasgoodstuff]

sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both or neither. Seriously, i think we had a long and informative thread on this v. subject not too long ago; perhaps some kind soul could link it? Personally, i like Art Pepper's Winter Moon and stan getz's Focus.

[chris olivarez]

I have'nt heard many jazz albums with strings-mostly Ogerman arrangements-but the ones that I have heard I've liked. Whether or not this concept works in any given case I think would depend as much on the arranger as it would in the group and the leader of a paticular date. I don't know if an arranger is faced with extra challenges within a jazz framework but if they are the ones that I have heard have responded very well and needless to say so have the groups and their leaders.

[LAL]

Listening to jazz with strings is always a refreshing experience. From the various 'with string' albums I've heard, the claim that musicians were watering down their music/playing is just bull.

Hawk in Paris and C.P with Strings are a few favourites.

[sheldonm]

I tend to like them (Bird, Chet Baker)!

[Jazzmoose]

I tend not to get excited by them, but I also like Focus, so I guess it depends on the individual effort, just like everything else.

[J.A.W.]

To keep it short: I hate it

[tonym]

I haven't heard those 'string-less' basses and guitars. Any good?

Edited March 17, 2004 by tonym

[J.A.W.]

I haven't heard those 'string-less' basses and guitars. Any good?

There are strings and there are strings...

Edited March 17, 2004 by J.A.W.

[Brad]

It depends. Generally, no. But when you get real masters doing it, like Bird and Brownie, that's a different story. Even then, not in terribly extended doses.

[Dave James]

I think in smaller doses, strings are good. As Chris A. points out, there are a handful of jazz with strings recordings that are classics in every sense of the word. What I find amusing are the liner notes that almost always accompany recordings within this genre. Invariably, whomever pens the notes goes out of their way to differentiate the recording at hand from the hoards of jazz with strings efforts that feature overblown, maudlin, cloying or pretentious string arrangments. So endemic is this kind of commentary, that one wonders where the "with strings" CD's are that are truly rotten or if. in fact, any really exist.

Up over and out.

Edited March 17, 2004 by Dave James

[couw]

those "with strings CD's that are truly rotten" are all over the place. You just wouldn't think of them as jazz, but more as of novelty items. It's like organ jazz, where you find the same thing in the liners, which makes you wonder "where's the BAD organ jazz? I sure didn't hear it!" But there again, the "rotten" stuff is not found in the jazz bin. It's those records that show a Clayderman kinda guy at the hammond on the cover.

[Free For All]

What makes it acceptable for me is the quality of the arrangements. A good arranger will not try to write for strings in such a way that they are required to swing (like extended eighth note lines), because they can't.

The exceptions are some of the classic string projects (like the Bird and Clifford, for example). The arrangements (IMHO) are for the most part pretty bland and "pop"-ish (I'm sorry, but even Neal Hefti can be pretty square sometimes) but these sides work because of the playing of Bird and Clifford. Otherwise I think I'd go into hyperglycemic shock!

I thought the arrangements on Focus were outstanding. I also like Johnny Mandel's arrangements on Shirley Horn's Here's to Life, which seems to get mixed reviews. I like Symbols Of Light, the Osby side discussed in another thread.

Speaking of strings, I heard the San Francisco symphony last night and they played a John Adams piece called "My Father Knew Charles Ives". I thought it was outstanding! This was more interesting than any of his works I'd heard before.

[mikeweil]

As always: The bad ones are terrible, the good ones are beautiful. I have only the good ones ..... if the strings are not too syrupy, but tatsteful, it's great.

Hasn't there been a thread on favourite jazz with strings CDs?

[Pete C]

Many musicianswanted to record with strings--it came to symbolize success, in a way.

Chris, I can't remember if it was the interview with you, or the other audio interview, where Prez said he wanted to record with strings, but Granz wasn't interested.

I generally find string dates disappointing, but there are some very notable exceptions:

Getz -Focus

Clifford Brown with Strings - very nice Neal Hefti charts

The Warm Moods of Ben Webster - this is a bit different as it's only a string quartet, but Johnny Richards' charts really swing. I think some of the Webster recordings with Ralph Burns string charts are good too. Ben's sound was definitely suited to the treatment.

And several sessions on this compilation:

The Konitz session with Bill Russo charts is really excellent, as is Giuffre's third-stream writing on his own orchestral sessions.

Edited March 18, 2004 by Pete C

[Nate Dorward]

The recent Konitz/Axis String Quartet disc is pretty nice, where they play versions of Debussy, Ravel, &c.

Sooner or later someone always mentions Art Pepper's Winter Moon on a thread like this. I don't think it's been mentioned so far so I'll do it.

[Jazzmoose]

Oops! Check post #3, Nate...

[JSngry]

If you get good players playing good charts, you'll almost always get good music, no matter what the instrumentation.

Of course, when it comes to string dates, that's easier said than done, but it's a lot easier now than it was back in the day. Writers and players have both gotten hipper to the trip.

But I love me some good string writing.

[ghost of miles]

sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both or neither. Seriously, i think we had a long and informative thread on this v. subject not too long ago; perhaps some kind soul could link it?

jazz"withstrings"

Is it just me, or was Artie Shaw one of the most successful bandleaders at integrating strings into a jazz ensemble? I love the 1941-42 band, and right now I'm finally enjoying his Hep CD IN THE BEGINNING, which features his 1936 band that was augmented by a string quartet. On the Shaw sides, the strings rarely, if ever, seem to overpower either the band or the soloists--they enhance rather than distract, at least for me.

[Nate Dorward]

Oh, I goofed. Anyway, Pepper's Winter Moon is worth hearing, though actually I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it as many Pepperphiles. There's a nice account of its making in his book Straight Life.

[Alexander]

If done right, there's nothing else quite like it... B)

[Larry Kart]

Flip Phillips' "Try a Little Tenderness" (Chiaroscuro), from the early '90s with subtle Dick Hyman charts and recorded by RVG, is one of the tastiest with strings dates I know. As explained in the notes, one of the reasons it works so well is that Phillips and Hyman got together several months before and taped piano-tenor duo versions of the tunes, then Hyman wrote his charts based on the moves that Flip was inclined to make. If you've never heard Flip on ballads, he was a marvelous soulful "singer," in the Webster tradition but with his own accent.

[KOB]

Seems to me it depends if they are appropriate or is it superflous,....and if the string section is decent

[medjuck]

Speaking of strings, I heard the San Francisco symphony last night and they played a John Adams piece called "My Father Knew Charles Ives". I thought it was outstanding! This was more interesting than any of his works I'd heard before.

I heard the San Francisco Symphony perform that in Prague last year. Do you know if it's available on cd? And BTW I think the only 2 "with strings" jazz reocdings I really like are Focus and Chet Baker with Strings. I also like the strings side of The Genius of Ray Charles if that counts as jazz.