Charlie Rouse, John Coltrane and Thelonious Monk

[Hardbopjazz]

Wow, this was a concert. Anyone have any insight to when and where this may have taken place? 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Hardbopjazz
update thread title.

[jazzbo]

George. . . or Charlie Rouse?  Too small to see.

[Hardbopjazz]

Here is an article on this concert. IT was in Detroit , Cobo Hall February 1967. There's no mention of George Coleman. I guess it could be Rouse.  

http://vancouverjazz.com/2016/02/jazz-notes-john-coltrane-thelonious-monk-cobo-hall-1967.html

[jazzbo]

Looks a lot more like Rouse to me. . . .

[mikeweil]

Yes, Rouse, when you enlarge the pic it becomes clear. Ben Riley on drums.

[Milestones]

That must have been just a few months before Coltrane passed away.

 

[felser]

Can't imagine what 1966-1967 Trane playing Monk would be like.  Would love to hear it.

[Gheorghe]

me too. I Always had thought that Trane, like Miles only looked Forward. Hard to imagine that in 1966 he went back to Play straight ahead. 

[mikeweil]

Considering the admiration and respect Coltrane had for Monk, I do not find it surprising at all.

[jazzbo]

6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

me too. I Always had thought that Trane, like Miles only looked Forward. Hard to imagine that in 1966 he went back to Play straight ahead. 

Who says it was straight ahead?

[medjuck]

That review is "forbidden" to me. Could someone please summarize it. (Dos that need a question mark?)

[jazztrain]

It looks like their website is down.

You may be able to access this earlier snapshot here:  

http://web.archive.org/web/20161104200659/http://vancouverjazz.com/2016/02/jazz-notes-john-coltrane-thelonious-monk-cobo-hall-1967.html

[Gheorghe]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

Who says it was straight ahead?

well maybe I didn´t say it correctly, but what I intended to say, Monk´s music is very hard swingin, and Coltrane during that period, for example "Village Vanguard Again" was already into "Free Jazz"......

[medjuck]

53 minutes ago, jazztrain said:

It looks like their website is down.

You may be able to access this earlier snapshot here:  

http://web.archive.org/web/20161104200659/http://vancouverjazz.com/2016/02/jazz-notes-john-coltrane-thelonious-monk-cobo-hall-1967.html

Thanks. That worked.  I' a bit dubious of the long quote form Coltrane.  Where did it come from?    However I do believe (with no proof)  that if Coltrane had lived, the trajectory of his music would have been similar to that of Archie Shepp. 

[jazztrain]

This was discussed in an earlier thread.  See here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56102-trane-and-monk-detroit-1967/

[jazzbo]

8 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

well maybe I didn´t say it correctly, but what I intended to say, Monk´s music is very hard swingin, and Coltrane during that period, for example "Village Vanguard Again" was already into "Free Jazz"......

You expressed yourself perfectly well. I can just imagine Trane taking those four to a zone they hadn't been before.

[medjuck]

22 hours ago, jazztrain said:

This was discussed in an earlier thread.  See here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56102-trane-and-monk-detroit-1967/

Thanks.  This description of the concert s quite different .   Putting the 2 together it sounds like maybe he played Nothingness with Monk and Favorite Things with Alice.  (Nothingness with Monk would have been interesting.) 

Edited March 25, 2020 by medjuck

[Gheorghe]

13 hours ago, jazztrain said:

This was discussed in an earlier thread.  See here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56102-trane-and-monk-detroit-1967/

very interesting Infos, especially that Monk wanted to persuade Trane to go back to his roots and Trane stating that for the Moment he has to continue in his direction.

One interesting thing about Monk and Saxophone players: I have read somewhere that Pat Patrick played some gigs with Monk, maybe in 1970. And Pat Patrick was much into the Sun Ra Avantgarde Scene. 

And many years after Monk´s death I have read an article in the german "Jazz Podium" that at some Point there was a rumour that Monk would have liked to have Archie Shepp in his Group. I don´t know if this is true. I only know that Archie Shepp has a deep feeling for Monk´s Music. Once I heard Shepp playing "Ask me Now" on piano and if you closed your eyes you might have thought it´s Monk himself.

And Monk´s last Saxophone player Paul Jeffrey also played in a very open manner, with one step torwards avantgarde. 

[Al in NYC]

What an incredible photo.  Having been in Cobo Arena maybe hundreds of times I can picture exactly where that was.  That earlier thread conatins the recollections of someone who attended to concert as a high schooler.  Apparently, Coltrane's own group (other than Alice) couldn't make it to Detroit for some weather-related reason, so he played with Monk.  The date was January 15, 1967, the same day as the first Super Bowl.

[JSngry]

I'd like to posit the possibility that Trane would not have had to have made an either/or choice when playing with Monk that night. Although there were certainly elements of the "Free" in the production of his sound and in the "bar-less"-ness of his phrasing, there was still a great deal of attention overall to structure and form. I don't think there would have been any real need for him to necessarily change what he was playing that night, just a consciousness about where to put it in/over Monk's forms.

And really, there may not have been the need to do even that. Coltrane by that time had deeply internalized so much music...