COVID-19 2.0: No Politics edition

[David Ayers]

 

London woman, 36, dies of suspected Covid-19 after being told she is 'not priority'

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/london-woman-36-dies-of-suspected-covid-19-after-being-told-she-is-not-priority

 

I’m not impressed. 

[felser]

19 hours ago, mjazzg said:

The discrepancy between government reassurances of the availability of PPE and the testimony of frontline staff is stark and seemingly increasing. I know who I tend to believe.

Same thing here in the USA.  

31 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

 

London woman, 36, dies of suspected Covid-19 after being told she is 'not priority'

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/london-woman-36-dies-of-suspected-covid-19-after-being-told-she-is-not-priority

 

I’m not impressed. 

Heartbreaking, and there is going to be a lot more of this.  Horrible lose-lose choices will need to be made, and often they will prove to be wrong.  My prayers include wisdom and grace for the decision-makers.  

[Dan Gould]

I have inside information from Mount Sinai health system. Their modeling (not public info at this time) says 40 days to the peak in NYC.

Maybe that is actually good if it is a flattened, but extended rise to the peak? Don't ask me for my source but I have no reason to doubt their info.

[felser]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Maybe that is actually good if it is a flattened, but extended rise to the peak? Don't ask me for my source but I have no reason to doubt their info.

Yes, it's more a matter of how many are at the peak, rather than how far out it is.  To minimize overrunning capacity at any given time.  There may be better ideas on treating it by then, also.  Tangible progress seems to be happening on that front every day.  At current rate, the entire city would have it in like four weeks, so that does seem to indicate a definite flattening.  Would love to know what the model shows as the # of cases at the peak, but I know you probably can't get that.

[David Ayers]

Meanwhile this huge London structure is being converted into an overflow hospital with 4000 critical care beds. 
 

I feel quite familiar with this building as, up until last year, I did the annual London Tri there. So I’ve biked swum and run around it quite a few times and I can easily imagine the thousands of beds in those massive open spaces. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/25/nhs-nightingale-video-shows-scale-of-london-coronavirus-hospital-excel

[porcy62]

What is evident from  Italian experience  is that Covid patients should be treated in separate and specific structures avoiding by any means being in contact with common ER and health systems. Medics should adopt the strongest protocols in order to avoid infections. Over here almost twenty doctors with no previous diseases died because of Covid. 

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

Meanwhile this huge London structure is being converted into an overflow hospital with 4000 critical care beds. 
 

I feel quite familiar with this building as, up until last year, I did the annual London Tri there. So I’ve biked swum and run around it quite a few times and I can easily imagine the thousands of beds in those massive open spaces. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/25/nhs-nightingale-video-shows-scale-of-london-coronavirus-hospital-excel

That's very sobering

[Brad]

Geese May Not Inspire You, but They Certainly Take Your Mind Off the Virus

[sidewinder]

Braved the grocery shop with 2m separation this morning. Extremely well organised, even got a pack of T. roll. 

Haven’t been so thrilled with eagerness and anticipation in a shop queue since Mole Jazz’s in-store New Year sales of yore !

[Dmitry]

20 hours ago, porcy62 said:

What is evident from  Italian experience  is that Covid patients should be treated in separate and specific structures avoiding by any means being in contact with common ER and health systems. Medics should adopt the strongest protocols in order to avoid infections. Over here almost twenty doctors with no previous diseases died because of Covid. 

I have information that Lombardy went down rapidly because of the thousands of Chinese nationals legally and illegally living there, working in sweat shops for the fashion industry. Are there enclaves of the Chinese there, akin to the Indian reservations here, with their own laws, etc., and the local authorities closing their eyes to the anti-sanitary conditions, because everyone was making money? True or not? Thanks.

[soulpope]

17 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

I have information that Lombardy went down rapidly because of the thousands of Chinese nationals legally and illegally living there, working in sweat shops for the fashion industry. Are there enclaves of the Chinese there, akin to the Indian reservations here, with their own laws, etc., and the local authorities closing their eyes to the anti-sanitary conditions, because everyone was making money? True or not? Thanks.

Unfortunately true (btw not thousands - 50.000 +).... mirroring the fact the that considerable small part of Italy`s economy is run/controlled by the mafia .... for decades ....

[T.D.]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-champions-league-match-a-biological-bomb-that-infected-bergamo-experts-say-11963905

[Dmitry]

19 minutes ago, T.D. said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-champions-league-match-a-biological-bomb-that-infected-bergamo-experts-say-11963905

Bergamo Mayor Giorgio Gori said this week: "It's very probable that 40,000 Bergamaschi in the stands of San Siro, all together, exchanged the virus between them.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't have known. No one knew the virus was already here. It was inevitable."

 

The head of the WHO had recently stated there was no evidence of the human-to-human transmission. The Chinese were also proclaiming, urbi et orbi, that airline travel to and from China was safe.  Also, even after the first cases started to snowball, the Italian populist politicians from top to bottom were hi-fiving each other, breaking their own quarantine, drinking Prosecco and happily giving tv interviews that no-one was afraid of the virus. 

This article is poor. The writer completely misses the point of his own title - who infected the football stadium fans before they, in turn, infected the others, and where did the infection come from to Italy, in the first place.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Dmitry

[porcy62]

2 hours ago, Dmitry said:

I have information that Lombardy went down rapidly because of the thousands of Chinese nationals legally and illegally living there, working in sweat shops for the fashion industry. Are there enclaves of the Chinese there, akin to the Indian reservations here, with their own laws, etc., and the local authorities closing their eyes to the anti-sanitary conditions, because everyone was making money? True or not? Thanks.

Not true, we have one of biggest chinese community close to Florence, Prato, that is untouched. The most recovered people are italians. So this a fake news, a little bit racist towards chineses and italians IMHO.

Considering that the chinese region where started the contagion is one of the most developped with thousands of manifacturing factories, that thousands of foreigners come and go for quality control, making deal, whathever the interconnected global industries need, and that the covid is freaking contagious, you don't need a anti-sanitary conditions, just some engineers from Milan or Detroit that were there to control the chain supply of an electronic component and if these engineers were asymptomatic they were perfect agents of contagion. I tend to believe scientists nowadays rather then journalists looking for front page stories. No offense for engineers.

BTW Bergamo, the most hitted city, has lots of high tech factories producing lots of component for german automotive industries, like Brembo the guys who make brakes for Ferrari, Porsche and all the motor sports like F 1 , Superbike, etc..

Edited March 26, 2020 by porcy62

[felser]

34 minutes ago, bresna said:

Man, when I think about all of the New England Patriots games I've been to... this could've easily been me if the timing was right. The high-fives that happen after a touchdown could be a thing of the past.

With Brady gone, they may be a thing of the past anyways...

[Dmitry]

7 minutes ago, felser said:

With Brady gone, they may be a thing of the past anyways...

Best post of the tread!

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, porcy62 said:

Not true, we have one of biggest chinese community close to Florence, Prato, that is untouched. The most recovered people are italians. So this a fake news, a little bit racist towards chineses and italians IMHO.

Considering that the chinese region where started the contagion is one of the most developped with thousands of manifacturing factories, that thousands of foreigners come and go for quality control, making deal, whathever the interconnected global industries need, and that the covid is freaking contagious, you don't need a anti-sanitary conditions, just some engineers from Milan or Detroit that were there to control the chain supply of an electronic component and if these engineers were asymptomatic they were perfect agents of contagion. I tend to believe scientists nowadays rather then journalists looking for front page stories. No offense for engineers.

BTW Bergamo, the most hitted city, has lots of high tech factories producing lots of component for german automotive industries, like Brembo the guys who make brakes for Ferrari, Porsche and all the motor sports like F 1 , Superbike, etc..

Best post of the thread. A virus doesn't have a nationality, end of.

Hope you're hanging in there porcy62. The UK medical world is learning a lot from the Italian experience. A sad consequence but one that may save some lives in the end.

Edited March 26, 2020 by mjazzg

[Dmitry]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-no-evidence-coronavirus-jumped-pangolin-people/amp?__twitter_impression=true

There’s no evidence the coronavirus jumped from pangolins to people

 

[soulpope]

13 hours ago, porcy62 said:

Not true, we have one of biggest chinese community close to Florence, Prato, that is untouched. The most recovered people are italians. So this a fake news, a little bit racist towards chineses and italians IMHO.

Considering that the chinese region where started the contagion is one of the most developped with thousands of manifacturing factories, that thousands of foreigners come and go for quality control, making deal, whathever the interconnected global industries need, and that the covid is freaking contagious, you don't need a anti-sanitary conditions, just some engineers from Milan or Detroit that were there to control the chain supply of an electronic component and if these engineers were asymptomatic they were perfect agents of contagion. I tend to believe scientists nowadays rather then journalists looking for front page stories. No offense for engineers.

BTW Bergamo, the most hitted city, has lots of high tech factories producing lots of component for german automotive industries, like Brembo the guys who make brakes for Ferrari, Porsche and all the motor sports like F 1 , Superbike, etc..

Dear "porcy62".can`t really see the "racist" aspect here .... let me add to my former statement, that national responsibility is also a huge topic in Austria, where via some hip skiing ressorts in the mountains (which were not closed early enough because of GREED)  a considerable number of infected tourists was "distribute" via Europe .... sad but true .... nevertheless much sympathy to you and your (=our neighbouring) country in these very dark and sad hours ......

[porcy62]

1 hour ago, soulpope said:

Dear "porcy62".can`t really see the "racist" aspect here .... let me add to my former statement, that national responsibility is also a huge topic in Austria, where via some hip skiing ressorts in the mountains (which were not closed early enough because of GREED)  a considerable number of infected tourists was "distribute" via Europe .... sad but true .... nevertheless much sympathy to you and your (=our neighbouring) country in these very dark and sad hours ......

"Racist" is the taste when one implies the anti-sanitary conditions are applied to one specific group, chinese or indians. I understand your point about national responsability, but more or less all of democratic governments dealed with the dilemma: economy or health, I wouldn't bet that a heavy economic recession will cause less casualties then covid.

BTW here in Rome liquor stores made thousands of deliveries per day: my last order:

Prost!

Edited March 27, 2020 by porcy62

[soulpope]

52 minutes ago, porcy62 said:

"Racist" is the taste when one implies the anti-sanitary conditions are applied to one specific group, chinese or indians. I understand your point about national responsability, but more or less all of democratic governments dealed with the dilemma: economy or health, I wouldn't bet that a heavy economic recession will cause less casualties then covid.

BTW here in Rome liquor stores made thousands of deliveries per day: my last order:

Prost!

@percy62 : Prost .... and stay healthy !!

[sonnymax]

Just heard that British PM Boris Johnson has tested positive for the virus.

Edited March 27, 2020 by sonnymax

[porcy62]

9 minutes ago, soulpope said:

@percy62 : Prost .... and stay healthy !!

Thanks! you too, they say to sanitize evrything with alcohol, I follow strictly the rule.

[soulpope]

18 minutes ago, porcy62 said:

Thanks! you too, they say to sanitize evrything with alcohol, I follow strictly the rule.

My cellar is full of Piemont beauties and it is hard to find a wine with less than 14% .... so applying to the rule too .... take care ....

[Dmitry]

2 hours ago, porcy62 said:

"Racist" is the taste when one implies the anti-sanitary conditions are applied to one specific group, chinese or indians.

 

Your statement is bullshit. I really wasn't expecting for someone here to drag out the "racist" placard, as a response to my original post. Anti-sanitary conditions are responsible for millions of deaths every year, mostly in third world countries, or countries with large swaths of population living in, get ready, anti-sanitary conditions.

For instance, wet markets, like the one in Wuhan, where the virus is purported to have infected patient zero, are notorious for the detritus soup, in which the the buyers interact with sellers and their wares.

When large numbers of people live in cramped quarters, the anti-sanitary conditions prevail, and foster disease - from easily treated , but embarrassing pediculosis, like my son brought home from two weeks of a soccer camp in Madrid, to something a lot more serious. That's why I asked a question whether there was evidence that the virus originated in Lombardy in a Chinese enclave, where people work in sweat shops and live in cramped conditions.

True, diseases have no nationality, but they have origins...China, USA, Germany, Russia, Africa. Knowing and understanding them is essential for epidemiologists to fight, and hopefully cure them.