felser Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said: yeah, and because in America at least a lot of younger people can't afford to go to the doctor or deal with these issues, well... And many who can think they are bulletproof and immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 hours ago, porcy62 said: The problem about this virus is NUMBERS. The main contagious in Italy is in Lombardia, the top notch Health Care System in the country, same, or even better, quality and quantity of Sweden or Switzerland or whatever you like, California? At this very moment almost ten per cent of medics and people working in Health Care are positive to covid, the army are moving death people in close regions because Lombardia hasn't got enough facilities to cremate them. It's true that we are talking mostly about old people, but what about if the system collapses? Car accidents, post surgery, lots of pathologies requires intensive care. Bad really bad when medics have to decide who treat and who don't, that means who lives who dies. And it’s happening right now Must be horrible to be so close to. Officialdom here saying we are two to three weeks behind you, London especially. We may be able to mitigate some of the word ramifications by being able to learn from Italy's experience. Stay safe porcy62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Selected London Underground stations closing as of today. Quite a progression from just the hand wash and distancing advice of a few days ago. London lockdown imminent I guess. Hang in there porcy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) Smart Thermometer Data, aggregated: Doesn't establish that Covid 19 is any particular place, but they are comparing prior patterns of thermometer data to what is seen now, perhaps as an 'early warning' system. https://healthweather.us/ more here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-fever-thermometers.html Edited March 19, 2020 by Dan Gould Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Dan Gould said: Smart Thermometer Data, aggregated: Doesn't establish that Covid 19 is any particular place, but they are comparing prior patterns of thermometer data to what is seen now, perhaps as an 'early warning' system. https://healthweather.us/ more here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-fever-thermometers.html There will probably be a run on these thermometers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, Brad said: There will probably be a run on these thermometers now. Don’t know about that. Yeah, sure they’ll sell, probably just like ALL thermometers in these times. But I’m sure they’re not cheap, and they don’t actually offer any actual extra protection (that I’m aware of). That is, unless they are specifically informing individual users when their temperature readings pattern looks like it “might” be Covid19. I saw coverage about this on Rachel Maddow (MSNBC) last night, and I don’t know a lot more details than that for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dan Gould said: Smart Thermometer Data, aggregated: Doesn't establish that Covid 19 is any particular place, but they are comparing prior patterns of thermometer data to what is seen now, perhaps as an 'early warning' system. https://healthweather.us/ more here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-fever-thermometers.html Have been watching Don McNeill on my primary news show (Maddow), he is excellent on this topic. 1 hour ago, bresna said: I'll tell you right now, don't believe any of the "Total number of cases" stuff being splashed across your television screens right now, particularly with regards to Massachusetts, New Hampshire & Maine, three states that I know are NOT testing people who suspect they might have COVID-19. The numbers are being allowed to stay artificially low due to a lack of testing. I know of 1 person in Mass, 1 in NH & 1 in Maine that were told not to come into their doctor office & simply stay home/self-quarantine for 14 days. A co-worker who lives in the Boston-area went into his doctor with a fever & flu-like symptoms, only to be told by his doctor that he doesn't have any COVID-19 test kits so go home and self-quarantine. I think that's true throughout the nation. Edited March 19, 2020 by felser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said: Don’t know about that. Yeah, sure they’ll sell, probably just like ALL thermometers in these times. But I’m sure they’re not cheap, and they don’t actually offer any actual extra protection (that I’m aware of). That is, unless they are specifically informing individual users when their temperature readings pattern looks like it “might” be Covid19. I saw coverage about this on Rachel Maddow (MSNBC) last night, and I don’t know a lot more details than that for the moment. I looked them up and the basic kind is around $35, about $25 or so than a basic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Did somebody say Don McNeill?!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 13 hours ago, felser said: Burned all my notebooks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Burned all my notebooks... what good are notebooks? They won't help me survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 26 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Burned all my notebooks... Significance? 16 minutes ago, felser said: what good are notebooks? They won't help me survive We ARE going to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, David Ayers said: Burned all my notebooks... Toilet roll shortage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted March 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Brad said: Significance? We ARE going to survive. They’re quoting lyrics from a Talking Heads song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) Some more considerations and numbers from the southern front. The death toll may be very very different if you consider different methods of categorizing. In Italy all the deceased people are filed under covid even if they had some previous diseas, but unfortunately there is no agreement or specific protocol worldwide, so in some countries they may not consider covid the main cause of death, likewise when a pneumonia is the fatal consequence of previous diseases, the cause of death is the primary diseases Deceased: 2978. 0,8% without previous diseases, 25,1% one previous disease, 25,6% two previous diseases, 48,5% three or more previous diseases. Median age of deceased: 80,5 y/o, male 70%, female 30%. Only 17 deceased under 50 y/o, all with previous diseases. 14.363 hospitalized. Due to the exceptional number of hospitalized, italian health system is running low of supplies. Economic consequences a part, Europe is a unique economic region with a high grade of interconnection, closing down the borders to goods may result in collapse of production and availabilty of primary goods like foods and medicine in all the continent, for example Poland produce a lot of food but no medicine or medical devices. More the production of complex goods like medical devices requires components produced abroad, even spare parts for ambulance are produced abroad. So selfishness is the worst and most miopic choice in this scenario. Edited March 19, 2020 by porcy62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 It will be a fascinating case study down the road to see if it really made a difference that the UK held off so long on closing schools (and pubs are apparently still open!). Australia is one of the only hold outs (where the government is actually threatening private schools that want to shut down!). https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-19/coronavirus-why-is-australia-keeping-schools-open/12070702 It seems very clear to me (from a distance) that they have the science exactly wrong. Kids are largely immune, which is great for them and their parents, but they are near-perfect vectors of infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, ghost of miles said: They’re quoting lyrics from a Talking Heads song. Ahhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverM Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Thank you Daniele for the precise updates on the situation in Italy, this is really a tragedy. In France, yesterday was a really bad day (+90 deaths, 900 people in intensive care) and it is still going upwards and becoming extremely tangible, closing down on people you know. One figure is that 50% of intensive care patients are younger than 60, though I don't know about any previous diseases. Army planes are moving patients from Alsace region to other regions were hospitals are less full. In Paris and some other regions, the number of free beds in hospitals is becoming extremely limited. In Sweden were some of my family is, doctors and nurses are worried of getting infected, like in Italy, due to a lack of protective equipment. It is also this way in France, though masks have been coming in from China yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, porcy62 said: Some more considerations and numbers from the southern front. The death toll may be very very different if you consider different methods of categorizing. In Italy all the deceased people are filed under covid even if they had some previous diseas, but unfortunately there is no agreement or specific protocol worldwide, so in some countries they may not consider covid the main cause of death, likewise when a pneumonia is the fatal consequence of previous diseases, the cause of death is the primary diseases Deceased: 2978. 0,8% without previous diseases, 25,1% one previous disease, 25,6% two previous diseases, 48,5% three or more previous diseases. Median age of deceased: 80,5 y/o, male 70%, female 30%. Only 17 deceased under 50 y/o, all with previous diseases. This reminds me of the height of the AIDS crisis, when there was a lively sub-set of scientific debate about whether it was HIV itself that was killing people, or if it was "just" that the presence of HIV was exacerbating existing/underlying conditions. Those of us of a certain age remember Dr. Fauci being in the middle of that world, and that he was the John Kerry of AZT - he was for it before he was against it. Point just being that then, as now, the science will be evolving (because that's what science does), but the rest of us need to be rooted in common sense and basic "math" - Avoid any and all unnecessary voluntary entering into uncontrolled environments or situations, and stay sane, or as sane as possible. This won't last forever, and neither will we, with or without this virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, OliverM said: Thank you Daniele for the precise updates on the situation in Italy, this is really a tragedy. In France, yesterday was a really bad day (+90 deaths, 900 people in intensive care) and it is still going upwards and becoming extremely tangible, closing down on people you know. One figure is that 50% of intensive care patients are younger than 60, though I don't know about any previous diseases. Army planes are moving patients from Alsace region to other regions were hospitals are less full. In Paris and some other regions, the number of free beds in hospitals is becoming extremely limited. In Sweden were some of my family is, doctors and nurses are worried of getting infected, like in Italy, due to a lack of protective equipment. It is also this way in France, though masks have been coming in from China yesterday. gnarly. The US is absolutely underreporting. A friend's mother, who has cancer and is undergoing chemo, was turned away even though she had fever and chills as well as a cough because she had not been to China or Iran. She lives in Texas, where right now (at least in her area) there is not a shortage of beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Duckworth Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 The only thing to fear is.... Mrs. Duckworth has a flu-like infection and was directed via phone to a The Shelby County health department who told her (just two days ago) that they cannot conduct tests for Covid 19. Shelby County has just under 1 million residents and is a hub drawing people from many other counties daily. If there was no testing here as recently as Tuesday, it seems certain that there is a good bit of under reporting of this illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjazzg Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 hours ago, sidewinder said: Selected London Underground stations closing as of today. Quite a progression from just the hand wash and distancing advice of a few days ago. London lockdown imminent I guess. Hang in there porcy ! London lockdown now officially dismissed as rumour which won't be great when they really have to do it in a few weeks time. Local supermarket shelves stripped bare at 7.30 this morning. Madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) I’m already home-working now for the foreseeable future. Will be initiating grocery home deliveries too, to avoid the scrum in the bog-roll aisles.. Last visit to the local supermarket they even had a few rolls in stock. Record Store Day looks iffy without further delay I guess. Edited March 19, 2020 by sidewinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, sidewinder said: Record Store Day looks iffy without further delay I guess. Delayed in USA from April 18 to June 20. Not that I A) Buy vinyl or B) have a brick-and-mortar store anywhere near me that sells new records. 49 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said: The only thing to fear is.... Mrs. Duckworth has a flu-like infection and was directed via phone to a The Shelby County health department who told her (just two days ago) that they cannot conduct tests for Covid 19. Shelby County has just under 1 million residents and is a hub drawing people from many other counties daily. If there was no testing here as recently as Tuesday, it seems certain that there is a good bit of under reporting of this illness. You and Mrs. Duckworth will be in our thoughts and prayers. Please let us know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jim Duckworth said: The only thing to fear is.... Administrative incompetence? That, and Institutional Arrogance: https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/as-restaurants-close-in-collin-county-friscos-remain-open/2333989/ otoh, hey, maybe Texas will lead the way in THIS: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2020/03/19/dfw-coronavirus-tracker-texas-restaurants-can.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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