COVID-19 2.0: No Politics edition

[sonnymax]

15 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Yes, I know. I was more reflecting on the fact that conspiracy theorists usually dismiss some facts, while accepting others. 

Oh, well that's entirely different.

[JSngry]

59 minutes ago, Niko said:

thinking a bit more simplistic - isn't he violating the "no politics" rule?

Pretty much...one more outburst with suspicion posing as fact will shut this thread down.

We can then move it all to a Florida beach, either that or try again with a new thread, the No Politics OR Unprovable Paranoid Assertions Version.

[GA Russell]

I wonder how many of the deaths so far have involved victims who already had a serious illness.

In many states, it is illegal to go to church.  Is everyone here OK with that?  

Are we under martial law?

Last week the Fed expanded the money supply $4 trillion.  Then Congress added another $2 trillion.  So who is getting that money?  $6 trillion divided by 330 million Americans equals $18,181. for every man, woman and child.  The government says that every adult who makes less than $70,000. will receive $1,200.  So who is getting the other $16,900. along with his own $18,000?

The CRTC has bailed out Capital One Bank.  A classmate of mine was their CFO, and received a salary of $7 million per year.  Why are the taxpayers bailing the stockholders out?  If Capital One failed, how would that affect me?

For the past few days, I have read that more Americans have died from Covid-19 than Chinese.  Does everyone here believe what the Chinese government says about anything?  I read over the weekend that in China the number of urns sold is three times the number of deaths reported.

Does everyone use hand sanitizer except me?  I have read that hand sanitizer kills bacteria, but has no effect on viruses.  True?

The government has stressed the need for everyone to stay six feet apart from one another.  Also, no groups greater than 50 people.  So if a small firm can meet those two requirements, why are governments prohibiting them from business-as-usual because their product is deemed "non-essential?"

 

[Dmitry]

2 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

I wonder how many of the deaths so far have involved victims who already had a serious illness.

In many states, it is illegal to go to church.  Is everyone here OK with that?  

Are we under martial law?

Last week the Fed expanded the money supply $4 trillion.  Then Congress added another $2 trillion.  So who is getting that money?  $6 trillion divided by 330 million Americans equals $18,181. for every man, woman and child.  The government says that every adult who makes less than $70,000. will receive $1,200.  So who is getting the other $16,900. along with his own $18,000?

The CRTC has bailed out Capital One Bank.  A classmate of mine was their CFO, and received a salary of $7 million per year.  Why are the taxpayers bailing the stockholders out?  If Capital One failed, how would that affect me?

For the past few days, I have read that more Americans have died from Covid-19 than Chinese.  Does everyone here believe what the Chinese government says about anything?  I read over the weekend that in China the number of urns sold is three times the number of deaths reported.

Does everyone use hand sanitizer except me?  I have read that hand sanitizer kills bacteria, but has no effect on viruses.  True?

The government has stressed the need for everyone to stay six feet apart from one another.  Also, no groups greater than 50 people.  So if a small firm can meet those two requirements, why are governments prohibiting them from business-as-usual because their product is deemed "non-essential?"

 

All I know is that in situations like this and other calamities, it's the small business owners, myself including, who ALWAYS get shafted. Corporations receive money and buy their own stock back at a serious discount, and there is no law that would prohibit that. Soft banks get bailed out and carry on as before. But the local diner, transmission shop, landscape company, yoga studio,  what you call "an independent contractor", they get...low interest loans. I hope I'm wrong this time around.

[JSngry]

5...

[ghost of miles]

22 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Pretty much...one more outburst with suspicion posing as fact will shut this thread down.

We can then move it all to a Florida beach, either that or try again with a new thread, the No Politics OR Unprovable Paranoid Assertions Version.

If an individual poster is violating the no-politics or no-tinfoil-talk or whatever board policy is applied, then it seems far more logical to warn and/or ban that poster and delete his offending posts than it does to shut down the entire thread, which ends up being a blanket punishment of all posters. 

[Brad]

27 minutes ago, GA Russell said:

I wonder how many of the deaths so far have involved victims who already had a serious illness.

In many states, it is illegal to go to church.  Is everyone here OK with that?  Yes, a pastor in Brooklyn just died.  Big gatherings are not essential.

Are we under martial law? No, but we do need a national lockdown order  

Last week the Fed expanded the money supply $4 trillion.  Then Congress added another $2 trillion.  So who is getting that money?  $6 trillion divided by 330 million Americans equals $18,181. for every man, woman and child.  The government says that every adult who makes less than $70,000. will receive $1,200.  So who is getting the other $16,900. along with his own $18,000? People and corporations.  I’m sure there are some giveaways, some bailouts.

The CRTC has bailed out Capital One Bank.  A classmate of mine was their CFO, and received a salary of $7 million per year.  Why are the taxpayers bailing the stockholders out?  If Capital One failed, how would that affect me? We are paying for bailouts. The money has to come from somewhere.    

For the past few days, I have read that more Americans have died from Covid-19 than Chinese.  Does everyone here believe what the Chinese government says about anything?  I read over the weekend that in China the number of urns sold is three times the number of deaths reported. Some suspect the numbers aren’t accurate  

Does everyone use hand sanitizer except me?  I have read that hand sanitizer kills bacteria, but has no effect on viruses.  True? Washing your hands with soap, properly, will kill the virus. If you are not home, hand sanitizer is the next best alternative. I carry one in my car.

The government has stressed the need for everyone to stay six feet apart from one another.  Also, no groups greater than 50 people.  So if a small firm can meet those two requirements, why are governments prohibiting them from business-as-usual because their product is deemed "non-essential?" It’s actually 10, not 50.  Even though the group size requirement is limited to 10, groups of this size can still lead to spread.  

 

I embedded my answers in bold. 

Just delete the posts and any replies. That’s not difficult. I used to be a moderator and am willing to do that again, if you all are interested. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Brad

[Dmitry]

Brad, washing your hands with soap does not kill the virus, it facilitates removal of it from your skin, and sending it down the drain.

[sonnyhill]

3 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Brad, washing your hands with soap does not kill the virus, it facilitates removal of it from your skin, and sending it down the drain.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

[Brad]

2 minutes ago, sonnyhill said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

In addition, Why Soap Works

[Dmitry]

6 minutes ago, sonnyhill said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants

Thank you. I stand corrected. The detergent not just binds the dirt on your skin, but dismantles the structure of the virus.  Apologies to Brad.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Dmitry

[JSngry]

19 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

If an individual poster is violating the no-politics or no-tinfoil-talk or whatever board policy is applied, then it seems far more logical to warn and/or ban that poster and delete his offending posts than it does to shut down the entire thread, which ends up being a blanket punishment of all posters. 

I have no way to actually ban a poster, and don't have the time to micro-scrub an entire thread.

IF this thread shuts down, it will be the same as the last time - nothing will be deleted, and a new thread is certainly free to begin in its place.

That's not punishment, that's trying (probably in vain...) to demonstrate a respect for the common rules of this forum - no political discussion - and also a common respect for the agreement that this COVID-19 thread was going to be limited to factual information and personal proven experience.

There is no room here for anything that is not provable, especially speculations about the underlying "motives" of either the cause or the response of the COVID-19 situation. Save it for Facebook or some place like that.

[Dan Gould]

In this day and age services can be streamed so I have no problem with pastors suffering consequences for putting their community at risk.

In Tampa a pastor turned himself in and had the temerity to claim that they practiced social distancing between families during the services.

I saw the video on the news it was a flat out falsehood.

[Brad]

29 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Thank you. I stand corrected. The detergent not just binds the dirt on your skin, but dismantles the structure of the virus.  Apologies to Brad.

None needed Dmitry

[Justin V]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I have no way to actually ban a poster, and don't have the time to micro-scrub an entire thread.

IF this thread shuts down, it will be the same as the last time - nothing will be deleted, and a new thread is certainly free to begin in its place.

That's not punishment, that's trying (probably in vain...) to demonstrate a respect for the common rules of this forum - no political discussion - and also a common respect for the agreement that this COVID-19 thread was going to be limited to factual information and personal proven experience.

There is no room here for anything that is not provable, especially speculations about the underlying "motives" of either the cause or the response of the COVID-19 situation. Save it for Facebook or some place like that.

As someone who served as a mod for years, I can say that it would take less time to 'micro-scrub' a few nutty posts and the replies from one page than it would to post any of the likely dozens of posts you've made on the thread.  If you don't want to devote a negligible amount of time to performing moderator duties, maybe it's time for some new blood.  It'd be absurd to shut down another useful thread because you simply can't be bothered. 

[bigbandrecord]

3 hours ago, Niko said:

thinking a bit more simplistic - isn't he violating the "no politics" rule?

 I have not mentioned any names of anything or anyone political oriented

[JSngry]

4...

[ghost of miles]

56 minutes ago, Justin V said:

As someone who served as a mod for years, I can say that it would take less time to 'micro-scrub' a few nutty posts and the replies from one page than it would to post any of the likely dozens of posts you've made on the thread.  If you don't want to devote a negligible amount of time to performing moderator duties, maybe it's time for some new blood.  It'd be absurd to shut down another useful thread because you simply can't be bothered. 

I'm willing to moderate this thread if need be, but I don't currently have moderator capabilities.  Happy to "micro-scrub" any posts with potential political germs!  

Edited April 1, 2020 by ghost of miles

[Dmitry]

The moderation is just fine here, no need for volunteers.

 

[GA Russell]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

I embedded my answers in bold. 

Just delete the posts and any replies. That’s not difficult. I used to be a moderator and am willing to do that again, if you all are interested. 

Brad, you're an attorney, right?  What is the difference to the common man between martial law and a national lockdown order.  Would not martial law first need to be established (at least de facto) before a lockdown order?

"Some" giveaways?  $16,900. is 93% of $18,100.

I see how the bailout of Capital One affects me.  My question is, How would I be affected if it were allowed to go bankrupt?

[felser]

3 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

In this day and age services can be streamed so I have no problem with pastors suffering consequences for putting their community at risk.

In Tampa a pastor turned himself in and had the temerity to claim that they practiced social distancing between families during the services.

I saw the video on the news it was a flat out falsehood.

I'm probably as openly born-again Christian as anyone active on the board, and I'm good with closing the churches to keep us alive.  Have been doing everything online, including "attending" livestreaming of worship services, leading my men's bible study via Zoom, etc., and it's all good, and we're all healthy and protecting the health of others.

[Brad]

Martial law, in its simplest terms, is the imposition of military rule and the suspension of the operation of laws. Apparently, we’ve had that happen a few times, according to this Wikipedia article,  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_the_United_States Although the right of habeas corpus was suspended during the Civil War, there was not universal martial law in the US.

If the President ordered a national lockdown, I don’t believe that would involve the suspension of most laws.

Although I haven’t practiced bankruptcy law in many years, if a bank went bankrupt, you’d be a creditor of the bankrupt bank. However, I can’t see that the Feds would ever allow a bank of Capital One’s size to go under. Even during the mortgage crisis, most investment banks that were in trouble like Bear Stearns were acquired by someone else, with the notable exception of Lehman Brothers.  

[GA Russell]

Thanks, Brad.  I was not thinking in terms of the suspension of laws, but rather solitary rules of the government prohibiting you from exercising a constitutional right.

That is my concern about going to church.  I completely agree that it is best to stay home and watch the service, but I am troubled by the notion that the government CAN make you do what it thinks is best.

By the way, I see the basic issue of rights during a threat of a pandemic to be entirely non-partisan from an American perspective.  A legal question rather than a political one.  That is to say...A political debate would be over what the government policy OUGHT to be, while a legal debate concerns identifying powers the government already has.

Edited April 1, 2020 by GA Russell

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

I'm not fine (and apparently not alone) with any and every thread about this topic, which is the dominating factor in all of our lives right now, potentially getting blown up because a single poster goes off the rails.  EDIT:  just remembered Jim A's post about this kind of discussion (re moderation) from 2013 and will adhere to it.

Any and every?     

This is the second, and it's still open. And the first is still open for all to view. Hopefully it's not a major inconvenience to go find it and look at it.

Here, let me make it easy:

Y'all just keep it between the lines and everything will be fine.

And for the record - COVID-19 itself is NOT the "dominating factor" in my life right now. I'm observing all possible precautions and adjustments, and am still working a day job and having a family life and playing records and everything else. I process the information, make the necessary adjustments, and keep on keepin' on. It's the Jazz thing to do!

i feel blessed - truly blessed -  to have that option. For those who don't, thoughts and prayers, etc. Seriously.

For those who do have that option but choose to react differently to that which they cannot control...can't help you there. Here, it's BAUOD (Business As Usual Only Different) unless and until otherwise impossible. I still have people depending on me, both personally and professionally, and THAT is still the dominating factor in my life right now. Babysitting a bulletin board of ostensibly disciplined, responsible adults is still on the list, but not always at the top of it, so sorry about that.

Like all of you, I have opinions - very strong opinions - about what has already happened, what has not happened but should have, and what I fear is going to happen not just in the immediate next few weeks, but in the months ahead. Very strong opinions.

But this board and this thread is not the place for that, and moderation will proceed accordingly, especially as it pertains to anybody who insists on rambling on about conspiracy theories and such. That ain't playing here.

Now, back to work, the kind that pays, like, real money.

[Coda]

Hey all, Here is another well presented set of data on the virus.  FT is updating this page every few hours. 

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest