COVID-19 2.0: No Politics edition

[ghost of miles]

12 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Any and every?     

This is the second, and it's still open. And the first is still open for all to view. Hopefully it's not a major inconvenience to go find it and look at it.

Here, let me make it easy:

Y'all just keep it between the lines and everything will be fine.

And for the record - COVID-19 itself is NOT the "dominating factor" in my life right now. I'm observing all possible precautions and adjustments, and am still working a day job and having a family life and playing records and everything else. I process the information, make the necessary adjustments, and keep on keepin' on. It's the Jazz thing to do!

i feel blessed - truly blessed -  to have that option. For those who don't, thoughts and prayers, etc. Seriously.

For those who do have that option but choose to react differently to that which they cannot control...can't help you there. Here, it's BAUOD (Business As Usual Only Different) unless and until otherwise impossible. I still have people depending on me, both personally and professionally, and THAT is still the dominating factor in my life right now. Babysitting a bulletin board of ostensibly disciplined, responsible adults is still on the list, but not always at the top of it, so sorry about that.

Like all of you, I have opinions - very strong opinions - about what has already happened, what has not happened but should have, and what I fear is going to happen not just in the immediate next few weeks, but in the months ahead. Very strong opinions.

But this board and this thread is not the place for that, and moderation will proceed accordingly, especially as it pertains to anybody who insists on rambling on about conspiracy theories and such. That ain't playing here.

Now, back to work, the kind that pays, like, real money.

I deleted my previous post because it seemed to fall into the "arguing about moderation" category that Jim A defined back in his 2013 post in the Forums Discussion area.  My offer to help moderate remains valid.  As to "dominant factor," you're splitting semantic hairs IMO.  I'm not sitting at home feeling stressed out and helpless, and I'm one of the few employees still required to go to work at our facilities several days a week.  No problem with that and no need for help of any kind.  But to say it's not the dominant factor in life right now is a willed semantic definition (Hey, still goin' about my business!) that, well, whatever gets you through the night, all right.  

[JSngry]

5 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

I deleted my previous post because it seemed to fall into the "arguing about moderation" category that Jim A defined back in his 2013 post in the Forums Discussion area.  My offer to help moderate remains valid.  As to "dominant factor," you're splitting semantic hairs IMO.  I'm not sitting at home feeling stressed out and helpless, and I'm one of the few employees still required to go to work at our facilities several days a week.  No problem with that and no need for help of any kind.  But to say it's not the dominant factor in life right now is a willed semantic definition (Hey, still goin' about my business!) that, well, whatever gets you through the night, all right.  

Semantic hairs? Seriously?

I said it's not the dominant factor in my life, and it's not.

It's a factor, of course, DUH!!!

Back to work.

[Soulstation1]

President Jackson is on the MFer

 

[JSngry]

That's beautiful!!!

[ejp626]

8 hours ago, felser said:

I'm probably as openly born-again Christian as anyone active on the board, and I'm good with closing the churches to keep us alive.  Have been doing everything online, including "attending" livestreaming of worship services, leading my men's bible study via Zoom, etc., and it's all good, and we're all healthy and protecting the health of others.

My step-brother is a pastor, and he goes to his empty church and preaches.  I assume it's live-streamed but don't have all the details at my finger tips.  It's not a perfect solution, but it's one that keeps the community safe.

[Guy Berger]

On 4/1/2020 at 5:05 AM, GA Russell said:

The government has stressed the need for everyone to stay six feet apart from one another.  Also, no groups greater than 10 people.  So if a small firm can meet those two requirements, why are governments prohibiting them from business-as-usual because their product is deemed "non-essential?"

I think you're framing this incorrectly.

The recommendations you mentioned aren't, on their own, magic talismans that absolutely prevent COVID spread.  They aren't 100% effective, and adherence to them is probably imperfect.  5 people all working in the same place might cross paths closer than 6 feet pretty frequently (even if they make the effort not to do so); are touching a lot of the same surfaces (it's hard to clean these sufficiently thoroughly/frequently); and may be bringing in COVID from outside of work.

Restricting non-essential businesses mean that there is one common channel for COVID transmission that's shut down.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Guy Berger

[Justin V]

I have a friend with 3 small children who isn't taking social distancing seriously.  He attended a funeral that required a drive of 800+ miles and was attended by a large extended family.  Knowing his kids, he certainly stopped a million times along the way there and back.  He then came home and recorded a podcast in person with a friend, which could have been recorded differently. 

After reading an article about how a large funeral in Georgia touched off a number of infections and deaths, I hope that he and his family didn't contract the virus by being careless. 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Guy Berger said:

I think you're framing this incorrectly.

The recommendations you mentioned aren't, on their own, magic talismans that absolutely prevent COVID spread.  They aren't 100% effective, and adherence to them is probably imperfect.  5 people all working in the same place might cross paths closer than 6 feet pretty frequently (even if they make the effort not to do so); are touching a lot of the same surfaces (it's hard to clean these sufficiently thoroughly/frequently); and may be bringing in COVID from outside of work.

Restricting non-essential businesses mean that there is one common channel for COVID transmission that's shut down.

Yeah, Dr. Birx (and she DOES dress well, I think we can all agree on that, and I thank her for bringing color and shape to an otherwise drab and shapeless podium every day) made the point that the only tool we have at our disposal to alter the course of this thing is behavior - our own behavior.

Total prevention is not the objective of social distancing. Total prevention would require a TOTAL lockdown, like you go in and you don't come out for anything. Either that or just everybody get out in the open, let the thing run its course, only the strong survive, EVERYBODY else dies. Yuck.

Social distancing is simply the best way to hedge your bets. You don't just open your door to the damn thing, you keep it back, and you take responsible action afterwards, just in case. Basic math, really.

I get that it's not what we're "used to", but unless/until this goes past any reasonable stage of virus spread, oh fucking well. Life is not always convenient, and a diseased population ain't exactly gonna have all that "freedom" anyway, right?

Let's just do this thing.

 

 

[felser]

Social distancing will slow down the spread, which will 

1 - lower the spike, causing less shortages of ventilators/PPE/etc.

2 - buy time for the researchers to find a way to treat and to vaccinate for this thing.

3 - therefore, save lives.

Pretty good return on the inconvenience, economic hardship, "forteiture of civil liberties".

[Dmitry]

How long are the Americans willing to play along with the distancing? One month, two...6? This could turn into a bit of a sticky wicket. 

The author describes it well.

https://spectator.us/longer-lockdown-continues-imperiled/

 

 

[JSngry]

For the duration, as determined by provably consistently reliable science and medicine data,  as spoken with an unquestionably independent confidence.

[Daniel A]

There is at least one factual error in that article:

"No one knows yet for sure, but evidence abounds that the lethality of this virus may be in line with flu’s 1 percent, and possibly as low as 0.1 percent." 

Seasonal flu does not have a mortality rate of 1 percent, but rather in the 0.1 percent range. And it's all to early to state that the lethality of [the new corona] virus might be "possibly as low as 0.1 percent". Yes, anything is "possible", but it is misleading to state it this way. 

[Brad]

Her point about society turning violent is something I see as a real possibility the longer this goes on, especially when benefits run out for people who don’t have savings. 

[Dmitry]

19 minutes ago, Brad said:

Her point about society turning violent is something I see as a real possibility the longer this goes on, especially when benefits run out for people who don’t have savings. 

Don't forget the millions of people who are here illegally, or undocumented, whatever your semantic preference. They are not going to be getting a government check, and most of them are employed in the service and food sectors, which are hit the hardest. We are going to either see a massive effusion across the southern border, and/or a spike in theft of food stuffs, at first, and then violence. ...Provided this "social separation" or "stay at home" doctrine goes into the summer months.

Soup kitchens in the areas where they live may need to be part of the mitigation strategy. And the sooner it's planned for, the better.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Dmitry

[Coda]

Google is using map data to identify areas where people are moving around vs shelter in place

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

You can download PDF reports to see how well your area is doing.

[JSngry]

17 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Don't forget the millions of people who are here illegally, or undocumented, whatever your semantic preference. They are not going to be getting a government check, and most of them are employed in the service and food sectors, which are hit the hardest. We are going to either see a massive effusion across the southern border, and/or a spike in theft of food stuffs, at first, and then violence. ...Provided this "social separation" or "stay at home" doctrine goes into the summer months.

Soup kitchens in the areas where they live may need to be part of the mitigation strategy. And the sooner it's planned for, the better.

Speculative sociology with potentially political overtones, not really what this thread is here for.

We all have our worries, we all have our fears. Save them for Facebook, please.

[Rooster_Ties]

Yesterday I made a pair of simple no-sew face-masks for my wife and me. Couldn’t find bandannas at Target yesterday (had to go for other things), so I cut up a pillow-case (which I’d read elsewhere was the next best thing, and maybe even better if the thread-count is high).

Supposedly deconstructed HEPA vacuum cleaner material is about the only thing much better (but it’s also hard as hell to breath through, and not recommended).

I don’t expect we’ll be out except for our daily walks (away from people), and the grocery store about once every 5 days, and Target maybe every 2-3 weeks.  But we wanted to be prepared, if (more like *when*) masks become the necessary protective and social norm.

All you need is an 18”-square bandanna or piece of pillow-case, and a couple elastic hair-ties. The hair-ties don’t stay over your ears perfectly, so I’m probably going to further secure it will a shoelace that connects the hair-ties behind your head. A couple safety-pins too might help (gonna add those today).

http://blog.japanesecreations.com/no-sew-face-mask-with-handkerchief-and-hair-tie

[BERIGAN]

21 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Yesterday I made a pair of simple no-sew face-masks for my wife and me. Couldn’t find bandannas at Target yesterday (had to go for other things), so I cut up a pillow-case (which I’d read elsewhere was the next best thing, and maybe even better if the thread-count is high).

Supposedly deconstructed HEPA vacuum cleaner material is about the only thing much better (but it’s also hard as hell to breath through, and not recommended).

I don’t expect we’ll be out except for our daily walks (away from people), and the grocery store about once every 5 days, and Target maybe every 2-3 weeks.  But we wanted to be prepared, if (more like *when*) masks become the necessary protective and social norm.

All you need is an 18”-square bandanna or piece of pillow-case, and a couple elastic hair-ties. The hair-ties don’t stay over your ears perfectly, so I’m probably going to further secure it will a shoelace that connects the hair-ties behind your head. A couple safety-pins too might help (gonna add those today).

http://blog.japanesecreations.com/no-sew-face-mask-with-handkerchief-and-hair-tie

wow, that sounds like a great idea, hadn't heard of using pillowcases before!

I really feel terrible for those working in supermarkets, Target, Walmart, etc...they don't have masks yet, (at least at the ones I've been to) I've seen 2 women that really, really looked depressed/angry, and not a damn thing I could say or do for them

perhaps folks who can make these can get together with others and make a bunch to give to folks at stores? talking about ones made out of pillow cases/sheets, more than the bandana types... at least "we" can send that link to everyone we know, put it on fb, twitter...there is so little we can do now.....

[GA Russell]

I ordered a mask from Amazon.

It was made in China!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZCM3BX5/

Edited April 3, 2020 by GA Russell

[JSngry]

GA - not sure what that mask you bought was, but what everybody's really looking for right now for maximum two-way COVID-19 virus protection is the N-95.

Here's a list of who manufactures them, sorted alphabetically: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/n95list1.html

Same thing for suppliers Surgical N-95s (which is an N-95 approved for surgical use): https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/respsource3surgicaln95.html

 

 

[medjuck]

4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

There is at least one factual error in that article:

"No one knows yet for sure, but evidence abounds that the lethality of this virus may be in line with flu’s 1 percent, and possibly as low as 0.1 percent." 

Seasonal flu does not have a mortality rate of 1 percent, but rather in the 0.1 percent range. And it's all to early to state that the lethality of [the new corona] virus might be "possibly as low as 0.1 percent". Yes, anything is "possible", but it is misleading to state it this way. 

 

Given that's the basis for her article......

[JSngry]

Yes, there's a lot of "social engineering" considerations around this event, both immediate and speculative/future-state. These considerations involve both public and private concerns and involve both the individual and the collective.

I would hope that this thread remains focused on what we as individuals know to be true, and avoid the speculative (which is not the same as the data-driven predictive, let's be totally clear about that). That's why it's here, and that's how it's going to hopefully continue.

The whole "doomsday/etc" scenario have been a part of our collective consciousness for god knows how long. There's been some great fiction and some perhaps not so great non-fiction coming out of all that, but this thread is not here for speculation, fiction, or real-life panic-induced ugliness of thought, word, or deed.

Just want to keep that in the forefront for all who post here. Stay safe, Just as importantly, stay sane. Personal discipline in every aspect of life is of critical importance, perhaps now more than ever.

And oh btw - I'm not the only one digging on Dr. Birx's fashion sense:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2020/03/25/course-youve-noticed-deborah-birxs-style-thats-why-its-so-reassuring/

https://nypost.com/2020/03/23/deborah-birx-is-the-maternal-fashion-icon-america-needs-right-now/

https://popculture.com/trending/2020/03/31/dr-deborah-birx-scarf-strong-reactions-coronavirus-press-conference-viewers/

Just as Roscoe Mitchell knows how to rock a tie, Dr. Birx knows how to rock a scarf.

[catesta]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

GA - not sure what that mask you bought was, but what everybody's really looking for right now for maximum two-way COVID-19 virus protection is the N-95.

Here's a list of who manufactures them, sorted alphabetically: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/n95list1.html

Same thing for suppliers Surgical N-95s (which is an N-95 approved for surgical use): https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/respsource3surgicaln95.html

 

 

What is interesting to me, is that some of the N95 masks being recommended have traditionally been used for dust particles only, such as the 3M 8210. We've always bought a shit load of these over the years for use when mixing dry pesticides (strictly voluntary and not always required). So, in theory, a common nuisance dust musk, likely does offer some protection and is better than nothing.

What medical (and affiliated first responder) professionals need is totally different in protection levels versus the common dude walking down the street.

On a side note, I have crews working in west Texas. One of my drivers had a face mask hanging from the rear view mirror of his truck while parked at a convenience store and some knucklehead tried to grab it. Yeah, this is probably not the time to leave a mask hanging on the mirror but what about the idiot walking by and thinking that mask was worth taking? I mean, 1. gross and 2., you dumb motherfucker, what if the user of the mask is sick.?!

Edited April 3, 2020 by catesta

[JSngry]

Where in West Texas was this? What brand of a convenience store was it?

Asking because there are areas out there that may or may not be in the same time-space continuum as the rest of us, and if this is one of those places, hey...times is tough enough without you inadvertently sending a crew through a wormhole...would your comp coverage cover Quantum mishaps as well as Newtonian ones?

Wormholes and loopholes...not what you want to be dealing with right now, am I right?

[sonnymax]

I don't want to dissuade anyone from using a facial mask. However, they're not designed to protect a healthy person who wears one from contracting the virus. It's my understanding that when properly worn by someone who is infected, a mask catches the tiny droplets from your nose and mouth that can carry the virus, thus preventing the spread of the virus to others.