Black Unity Trio – Al-Fatihah

[cliffpeterson]

What about the LPs on Horo never reissued on cd? Other than the already bootlegged cds, e.g. Sun Ra's "Next Steps", isn't there free jazz on Horo worthy of cd reissue?

[Pim]

13 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

well, simply put, Echo is a dense thicket of clusters and superimposed scales and operates more like a matrix or latticework.

14 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

I always heard the BYG Silva's (not Seasons, which is a different beast) and Burrells above as quite similar in style to Al-Fatihah. The same dedication to blow out force, without the song structures that underlaid Ayler or e.g. Wright / Howard. 

 

In force yes but not so much in the structure of the music I think. What I really dig in Black Unity Trio is the interaction I hear between the guys. And though the music is free it still has a structured feeling to me. It's hard to describe sometimes but it's exactly what I miss at a record like Echo which Clifford desribes pretty accurate. To say it in a disrespectful way (not meant that way): a record like Echo feels like how some people describe freejazz... Like every musician just plays his part right trough the other musicians without listening or interacting. But then again I do like Frank Wright, Noah Howard and the Center of the World stuff. I've always liked Ayler but have to be in a certain mood. Freejazz is such a personal experience I think, it's sometimes hard to describe what makes it click and what turns you off.

If I had to name some of the more free musicians I really like:

- Sam Rivers

- Sonny Simmons

- Archie Shepp

- John Coltrane

- Pharoah Sanders

- Horace Tapscott

- Julius Hemphill

- Noah Howard

- Don Cherry

- Fred Anderson

- Frank Wright

Artists I have more trouble connecting with their music:

- Anthony Braxton

- Evan Parker

- Derek Bailey

- Fred van Hove

- Sun Ra

- Alexander von Schlippenbach

Cecil Taylor could be in both lists depends on what mood and what particular record by him. Same goes for the great Steve Lacy. Now I don't see a very direct connection between all the artists mentioned but I'd say in broad terms the music I enjoy has more ground in jazz, blues and African music where the music I don't really has more connection with European classical and avant-garde music. But that's just a small bit of a decleration.

 

[soulpope]

@ "Pim" : have similar resentments vs Anthony Braxton .... but still highly appreciate his "Six Monk's Compositions (1987)" (Black Saint) ....

[mjazzg]

That's interesting as I have 40+ Braxton albums and the Monk is my least favourite 😀. Different folks...

[Pim]

2 hours ago, soulpope said:

@ "Pim" : have similar resentments vs Anthony Braxton .... but still highly appreciate his "Six Monk's Compositions (1987)" (Black Saint) ....

Got that one for Mals presence. To me it’s an okay record but still not something I revisit a lot. I have the biggest respect for Braxton as a musician that meant so much to the music. It’s just that it does not work for me. I’ve tried a lot times (and will probably try some more).

[soulpope]

8 hours ago, mjazzg said:

That's interesting as I have 40+ Braxton albums and the Monk is my least favourite 😀. Different folks...

Indeed ....

[soulpope]

14 hours ago, Pim said:

Got that one for Mals presence. To me it’s an okay record but still not something I revisit a lot. I have the biggest respect for Braxton as a musician that meant so much to the music. It’s just that it does not work for me. I’ve tried a lot times (and will probably try some more).

Obviously the record being a Monk homage caught my eye .... I expected this being dominated by Anthony Braxton and Mal Waldron back then, but the record's strength is mirrored in a rather unagitated approach of four musicians with equal rights ....

[Niko]

my three impulses for answering the original question were: 1) Eastern Man Alone, mentioned early on 2) Jacques Coursil (e.g. the BYGs), not yet mentioned as far as I can see 3) some Japanese stuff like Togashi's Guild for Human Music or Speed and Space... maybe they're slightly more low key and slightly less driven, but they have that folkish quality and I also hear similarities in the role of the drummer

[clifford_thornton]

On 10/29/2024 at 8:30 AM, Pim said:

In force yes but not so much in the structure of the music I think. What I really dig in Black Unity Trio is the interaction I hear between the guys. And though the music is free it still has a structured feeling to me. It's hard to describe sometimes but it's exactly what I miss at a record like Echo which Clifford desribes pretty accurate. To say it in a disrespectful way (not meant that way): a record like Echo feels like how some people describe freejazz... Like every musician just plays his part right trough the other musicians without listening or interacting. But then again I do like Frank Wright, Noah Howard and the Center of the World stuff. I've always liked Ayler but have to be in a certain mood. Freejazz is such a personal experience I think, it's sometimes hard to describe what makes it click and what turns you off.

 

Right, I actually talked to Dave about this so it was indeed conceived as a mass of individual lines/phrases superimposed to create a collective whole. If musicians are playing their own thing in parallel, then they're doing right by the music as it was composed.

A lot of free music is quite organized and sometimes even precomposed. 

Good call on the Coursils. I think of them a bit differently but they are rigorous and spacious for sure.

On 10/29/2024 at 2:39 AM, cliffpeterson said:

What about the LPs on Horo never reissued on cd? Other than the already bootlegged cds, e.g. Sun Ra's "Next Steps", isn't there free jazz on Horo worthy of cd reissue?

the Horos are pretty bound up in all sorts of questionable ownership deals. That said, there's only a handful of Horo LPs to my mind that are really in the "free jazz" realm. Most of what I own or have heard is of the "off-kilter mainstream" variety. There are some more experimental exceptions, though: Lacy, Schiaffini, Mengelberg-Bennink-Schiano-Rutherford, Laboratorio Della Quercia, MEV... IIRC at least one of the Lacys got the vinyl reissue treatment not so long ago.

Re: Togashi, those are great records but I don't feel that something like, for example, Guild for Human Music has much in common with the Black Unity Trio on the face of things.