Black Unity Trio – Al-Fatihah

[Rabshakeh]

Looks like I got lucky with mine too. Although I haven't tried it yet as my mother in law is staying. I'm not sure it's strictly mother in law appropriate. 

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

Looks like I got lucky with mine too. Although I haven't tried it yet as my mother in law is staying. I'm not sure it's strictly mother in law appropriate. 

I guess that rather depends on the mother-in-law concerned...is she more of a bebopper?

[Rabshakeh]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

I guess that rather depends on the mother-in-law concerned...is she more of a bebopper?

Something like that...

[clifford_thornton]

I recall when I worked in a bookstore after college being called a "bebopper" (pejoratively) by the owner when I was playing the Byron Allen ESP CD on the store stereo.

[peterintoronto]

Bummed they shipped the record inside the sleeve. I hate unnecessary seam splits.

[mjazzg]

Café Oto now stocking a repress of this

[sidewinder]

47 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Café Oto now stocking a repress of this

It’s everywhere !   HJ’s have it too.

[Pim]

Now I keep spinning this one again and again. I really like it and glad I got to know it trough the board (would have probably noticed it trough Wadud's name if not but still). For me it's an accurate example of free music still being accesible for it's high emotional energy that's feelable trough all the tracks. I am also impressed by Hasaan al-Hut's drumming skills by the way. My question to all the board folks here that know this recording well: if you had to name one record that has a similar vibe/feeling and sound, what would that be? 

[mjazzg]

I sold my copy a couple of months ago, never connected with it

[clifford_thornton]

16 minutes ago, Pim said:

Now I keep spinning this one again and again. I really like it and glad I got to know it trough the board (would have probably noticed it trough Wadud's name if not but still). For me it's an accurate example of free music still being accesible for it's high emotional energy that's feelable trough all the tracks. I am also impressed by Hasaan al-Hut's drumming skills by the way. My question to all the board folks here that know this recording well: if you had to name one record that has a similar vibe/feeling and sound, what would that be? 

Arthur Jones' "Scorpio." 

I like Scorpio better, but honestly if I had heard Al-Fatihah in the late 90s it probably would be in my pantheon of emotionally rich and direct "power trio" records as well. It wasn't until 2007 or so that I actually sat down with the music, via a CD-R from a friend. Not for nothing, Arthur Jones was also from Cleveland. I suppose the case could be made for Charles Tyler's ESPs having a bit of similarity, vibe-wise, but Tyler's writing and solos have a different cast from Yusef Mumin's.

[Pim]

45 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I sold my copy a couple of months ago, never connected with it

Doesn't happen too often we don't like the same records Mark. This is really a favorite of mine.

31 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Arthur Jones' "Scorpio." 

I like Scorpio better, but honestly if I had heard Al-Fatihah in the late 90s it probably would be in my pantheon of emotionally rich and direct "power trio" records as well. It wasn't until 2007 or so that I actually sat down with the music, via a CD-R from a friend. Not for nothing, Arthur Jones was also from Cleveland. I suppose the case could be made for Charles Tyler's ESPs having a bit of similarity, vibe-wise, but Tyler's writing and solos have a different cast from Yusef Mumin's.

Thanks Clifford I was hoping for an answer by you. I know that record but it's long, very long ago I heard it for the last time. It was on my Ipod when I was in high school but forgot about it since then. I remember I liked it back than so will look it up on Spotify or somewhere else. Tyler is also on my to listen list though I never really connected to the ESP stuff. But theres more by him I saw on Discogs but it's all pretty rare. He worked a lot with Earl Cross, a trumpeter I like.

[Rabshakeh]

Pim, counter me as a big Al-Fatihah fan too. It is really one of my favourites.

As I see it, Al-Fatihah belongs to the final stage of the Ayler wave of free jazz: sweat soaked high intensity energy music.

I think that it sits at the point chronologically where the impetus is running out of that movement a little, and a lot of the other records being produced in that style around the time are perhaps a little underwhelming as a result.

I can't think of a record with the same sort of intensity and style that also has the tightness that Al Fatihah has. 

I would say that the BYGs are the place to look. That period in 1969-71 in Paris seems to have been the final flowering. 

Some examples, off the top of my head:

Kenneth Terroade- Love Rejoice

Alan Silva and the Celestial Communication Orchestra - Luna Surface

Dave Burrell - Echo

Frank Lowe - Black Beings

Rashied Ali and Frank Lowe - Duo Exchange

30 minutes ago, Pim said:

Tyler is also on my to listen list though I never really connected to the ESP stuff. But theres more by him I saw on Discogs but it's all pretty rare. He worked a lot with Earl Cross, a trumpeter I like.

To beat everyone else to it, definitely check out Saga of the Outlaw! Not in the same style as Al-Fatihah but its as much as guaranteed. 

Edited October 28 by Rabshakeh

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, the later Tyler LPs are excellent but I don't feel like they are in the same bucket as the Black Unity Trio. His compositional voice and playing were a bit more fully formed by the time "Saga of the Outlaws" came around.

for what it is worth, the ESP I gravitate to the most is "Eastern Man Alone," which features Tyler and a string trio of University of Indiana players: the professor David Baker on cello and U of I students Brent McKesson and Kent Brinkley (basses). It does fit in with a certain conception of hummable, spiritual tunes and gooey interplay that Ayler certainly put forth in his music.

[mjazzg]

Big fan of 'Eastern Man Alone' and also on ESP Silva's 'Skilfulness'.

Absolutely yes for 'Scorpio' and also the Coursil BYGs.

I played Simmons's 'Burning Spirits' yesterday, that fits no? Maybe not free enough I know you're a fan Pim.

Now I'm going to throw in a slightly left field suggestion and point at the Brotzmann quartet dates with Albert Mangelsdorff. Different lineage obviously but to my ears they fit some of your criteria.

50 minutes ago, Pim said:

Doesn't happen too often we don't like the same records Mark. This is really a favorite of mine.

I think it just didn't live up to the hype for me, and there was a lot of hype. When it was finally reissued I jumped on it but every time I played it I was disappointed. I have to say that the same but to a lesser extent is true of 'By Myself'.  I'm becoming more wary of these reissued "grails".

[clifford_thornton]

I can't think of very many records yet to be reissued that merit much hype, the exceptions being the Marzette on Savoy and the Colbeck on Fontana. Otherwise, most of the truly great records in free music have seen the light of day at least a few times.

re: ESP, I zoomed in on the two Tylers but there are of course many on the label that I love. Not sure they'd fit in whatever bucket we're putting Black Unity Trio into, but if Ayler-influenced rust belt "free jazz" is the criteria, I'd continue to check into Tyler, Jones, Frank Wright, Otis Harris (Cleveland) as well as Charles Gayle (Buffalo). Not sure about Pittsburgh as it's a town I mostly associate with drummers (f.e.: Beaver Harris, J.C. Moses, Joe Harris). Erie, PA and Gary, IN I don't know enough about to hazard a guess. Cisco Bradley is working on a book about rust belt musicians; I'd imagine it will be an interesting volume.

[mjazzg]

1 minute ago, clifford_thornton said:

I can't think of very many records yet to be reissued that merit much hype, the exceptions being the Marzette on Savoy and the Colbeck on Fontana. Otherwise, most of the truly great records in free music have seen the light of day at least a few times.

re: ESP, I zoomed in on the two Tylers but there are of course many on the label that I love. Not sure they'd fit in whatever bucket we're putting Black Unity Trio into, but if Ayler-influenced rust belt "free jazz" is the criteria, I'd continue to check into Tyler, Jones, Frank Wright, Otis Harris (Cleveland) as well as Charles Gayle (Buffalo). Not sure about Pittsburgh as it's a town I mostly associate with drummers (f.e.: Beaver Harris, J.C. Moses, Joe Harris). Erie, PA and Gary, IN I don't know enough about to hazard a guess. Cisco Bradley is working on a book about rust belt musicians; I'd imagine it will be an interesting volume.

Yes, I'm waiting on the Marzette and Thornton's 'Communication Network '.

Thinking again from a European perspective I'd add Amalgam's 'Prayer For Peace' which to my mind definitely fits "accesible for it's high emotional energy that's feelable trough all the tracks"

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, for sure, I was not thinking so much in a European perspective but Prayer for Peace is certainly in a related zone. Beautiful album.

"Communications Network" is a neat document of areas in progress though to me it's not quite on the level of CT's other albums. However, there are certainly reasons he sought to release it on his own label and spend the money getting it out into the world. I say this with obvious love for the man and his work. 

 

[mjazzg]

15 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, for sure, I was not thinking so much in a European perspective but Prayer for Peace is certainly in a related zone. Beautiful album.

"Communications Network" is a neat document of areas in progress though to me it's not quite on the level of CT's other albums. However, there are certainly reasons he sought to release it on his own label and spend the money getting it out into the world. I say this with obvious love for the man and his work. 

 

We would never have guessed...😀

[Rabshakeh]

39 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Ayler-influenced rust belt "free jazz" 

I never thought about this as a genre. 

40 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

Otis Harris

Did he ever lead a date? I know him from Nurnen and that Ted Daniel record only. And by "know him", I mean that when I checked I saw that he was on them.

[Pim]

I never liked those BYG dates by Alan Silva en Dave Burrell. I do dig those Lowe dates which I both have. That stuff with Ali is some raw music. I see what Mark means with hype though I think this one was justified. I like Waduds music thinking off his work with Hemphill and Blythe as well.

When I think about I think cello is a lovely instrument in jazz music. Calo Scott and Dierdre Murray come to mind.

[felser]

I don't much like the Silva and Burrell BYG's, overly dense, I can't make sense of them.  I do like the Arthur Jones BYG quite a bit, was able to pick it up as a bonus on a Clifford Thornton reissue.  Moncur's New Africa is the gem of the BYG catalog to me, but a different bag than what's being discussed here.  I've heard parts of that Ric Colbeck album, would love to see it on CD.

Edited October 28 by felser

[clifford_thornton]

the Silvas are very different animals from what is being discussed here.

no, Otis Harris never led a date, but his playing is of a piece with some of the musicians being discussed here. His writing was maybe a bit more boppish, as evidenced by the additional tracks on the Ted Daniel Sextet album.

[Rabshakeh]

I always heard the BYG Silva's (not Seasons, which is a different beast) and Burrells above as quite similar in style to Al-Fatihah. The same dedication to blow out force, without the song structures that underlaid Ayler or e.g. Wright / Howard. 

[clifford_thornton]

well, simply put, Echo is a dense thicket of clusters and superimposed scales and operates more like a matrix or latticework.

Solestrial and Luna Surface are similar in that they are built off of scalar superimpositions, but structured more purely around constant glissandi. Silva also came from action painting and the gestural strokes of flinging liquid paint onto a floor-bound canvas (acting within that environment) influenced these works pretty heavily.

[soulpope]

7 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Silva also came from action painting and the gestural strokes of flinging liquid paint onto a floor-bound canvas (acting within that environment) influenced these works pretty heavily.

Interesting, didn't know that ....