Playing Favorites: Reflections on Jazz of the Later 1940's

[Gheorghe]

@BillF Really nice antecdote ! 

Well if I think about it, with the exception that the bridge of Four Brothers is 8 bars, you can master it pretty well if you know the running changes of the bridge of Cherokee. I´m not at the piano right now, but later I´ll check it out. I played it once. 

About antecdotes related to Trombones: When I was in the last grade of high school, you know I was one of those long haired hipsters and I had a driving licence and since my school resultates were very good (in spite of my wild outfit, not the one of a model student) it was okay with my father that I could do what I want in my leisure time so I went out to the clubs to hear all those greats. 

One boy from a lower grade looked up to me as kind of a mentor and when I played some J.J Johnson for him (it was the Yokohama concert, brandnew then in 1977, he carved into his school bench "J.J. Johnson is the best".

The next day, Kai Winding was in town, I went to see him and told the boy about it the next morning, and one day later he had carved "Kai Winding.....too!" 

 

Yes, the J.J. Johnson I posted is the Savoy Sessions from 1946/47. 

I bought it together with the Dexter Gordon Savoy session. From the late forties you have the sides he made with Fats Navarro. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Gheorghe

[Gheorghe]

Now playing : 

Really an allstar setting. Both the jam session with Bird, Flips Phillips, Sonny Criss, Fats Navarro, Tommy Turk (who later was on some studio sides added by NG to the regular quintet) and the Quintet set Hawk with Fats. 

 

[BillF]

4 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Now playing : 

Really an allstar setting. Both the jam session with Bird, Flips Phillips, Sonny Criss, Fats Navarro, Tommy Turk (who later was on some studio sides added by NG to the regular quintet) and the Quintet set Hawk with Fats. 

 

Yes, that's a great one.

Re Tommy Turk: I think he was better in this JATP setting than as an addition to the Parker quintet  on the "Visa"/ "Passport" studio session where, as I opined in another thread, he was something of a disaster. Do you agree?

In the list of giants on the above album cover, the name of Tommy Turk is likely to provoke the question, "Who?" and indeed I knew very little of him until a few moments ago when I was surprised to find quite a comprehensive Wikipedia entry which included a regrettably dramatic death:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Turk

Now finding more stuff:

Edited February 23, 2020 by BillF

[Gheorghe]

11 hours ago, BillF said:

 

Re Tommy Turk: I think he was better in this JATP setting than as an addition to the Parker quintet  on the "Visa"/ "Passport" studio session where, as I opined in another thread, he was something of a disaster. Do you agree?

 

 

:

I agree to you, I don´t listen too often to those "Visa"/"Passport" sides. They are on "Jazz Perennial", one of the Charlie Parker Verve Albums. I remember when I heard it first, the trombone sounded funny to me. See, I´m only used to the more "cool, modern" trombone sounds of let´s say J.J., Winding, Curtis Fuller, Julian Priester etc. and somehow have difficulties to hear older trombone styles which Sound funny to me, more like the movie scored to some cartoon films…...

But I also agree to you that he fit´s better into the JATP surroundings, just because of the "Sound" of those public jam sessions. 

Norman Granz was often critized for his choices of certain musicians for various sessions: Ross Russell compared the choice of Tommy Turk for the Charlie Parker Group like "adding a Tuba to a string quartet"......

Some writeres also criticized the choice of Buddy Rich for the 1950 "Bird and Diz" Album, the one with Monk on it. But Buddy Rich is also on "Celebrity" from "Jazz Perennial", I think….

Some of that stuff on "Perennial", like the quartet number "The Bird" and the string Thing "Repetition" was on the legendary compilation "THE JAZZ SCENE". That record is so often mentioned by Ira Gitler, and when I was Young, guys who were somewhat older than me, often remembered fondly that Album "Jazz Scene". 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Gheorghe

[BillF]

Yes, a controversial album, largely because of Granz's choice of Rich. Yet it remains one of my all-time favorites, ever since I bought it on a 10" LP around 1959 at the age of 19.

Actually, I don't mind Rich on it. I could do without some of his loud, but fortunately brief, drum breaks and intros, but he brings a powerful swing to a very exciting session. And remember, this isn't a Parker quintet where he'd be as disastrous as Tommy Turk, it's a meeting of bop giants - Bird, Diz and Monk - with a very different atmosphere.

I recently listened again and was struck by the astounding logic of Bird's solos, the staggering technical brilliance of Diz and the beauty of some rarely heard Bird compositions - "Mohawk", "An Oscar for Treadwell", "Bloomdido" - they don't get many covers.

[Gheorghe]

100% Agreement to your review of "Bird ´n Diz". 

The choice of Buddy Rich for that Album is a better one than the choice of Tommy Turk for the Bird 1949 Studio sides. 

Anyway, I think Buddy´s time is also very good behind Monk here. I don´t know what Monk thought About Buddy Rich, but this very straight ahead swing fits to Monk´s more excentrical piano lines. Don´t Forget that Art Blakey on Monk´s 1947 BN sides also sounds very metronomical.

Buddy Rich together with vintage boppers was not such a rare combination: 

You have him on the second "Bands for Bonds" broadcast by Barry Ulanov (Bird, Fats, Allen Eager, John Laporta, Lennie Tristano, Buddy Rich) , you have him also on the second half of the WNEW 1947 Saturday Night Jazz Session (Fats, Eager, Ventura, Buddy Rich). 

I Always wondered if the high pitched voice that shouts "BUDDY RICH" on those sides is Fat´s voice ? It´s on the second tune "Sweet Georgia Brown" before Buddy´s drum solo.

Buddy Rich is also on the 1950 Bud Powell date (Tea for Two and Get Happy), but on those sides you don´t really hear him, he is under recorded…….

By the way: 

You mentioned the rarely played tunes Mohawk and Bloomdido. 

Well, Bloomdido …… I remember I had to Play it once with a quite famous, in Europe settled alto Saxophone player, he just told me "Blues in Bb, and in the 8th bar you Play Db minor Gb……" That´s it, with this advice you can play it. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Gheorghe

[Gheorghe]

Right now I listen to Dizzy Gillespie Big Band !

Fantastic ! 

[EKE BBB]

On 20/2/2020 at 5:29 PM, BillF said:

Bought this used French 10" LP in 1961. An all-star cast, I think you will agree: Moody, McGhee, Milt, Hank Jones, Ray Brown, J C Heard.

Very early for Hank J. I can't think off-hand of an earlier recording by him. Always like J C H's explosive drumming. Reminds me of what they said about Krupa during World War 2: "Dropped more bombs that the U S Air Force". 

Is this a forgotten date? I never hear anything about it. Anyone else know it?

 

That recording dates from December 1947. There are quite a few earlier recordings featuring Hank Jones in the rhythm section, starting in November 1944, under several different leaders, namely Hot Lips Page, Andy Kirk, Cousin Joe, Stan Getz, John Kirby, Ray Brown, Coleman Hawkins, Flip Phillips and Eddie South.

There are even a couple of dates under Hank Jones' name: a JATP concert set by the Hank Jones Quartet (April 5, 1947 at the Carnegie Hall) and a solo studio recording under his leadership (Sep./Oct. 1947, Clef date released as "Urbanity").

 

 

On 20/2/2020 at 8:08 PM, Big Beat Steve said:

That's a selection of the DIAL dates recorded by McGhee in 1946. I have his entire Dial output on Spotlite LP SPJ131 - "Trumpet at Tempo" from their "The Dial Masters" mini-series (yes, the good old trusty Spotlight label ).

That Jazztone LP (J-1026) was a direct reissue of French Vogue LD.062 which had the same tracks.

 

Unless Tom Lord Discography is wrong (nothing extremely unusual, btw), those Dial recordings date from December 3, 1957, and have been issued in a number of different releases, starting with Dial 209 ten-incher:

https://www.discogs.com/master/view/771630

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by EKE BBB

[BillF]

Your move, Gheorghe, to the Dizzy Big Band (perhaps like Basie we should call this the Old Testament band, as opposed to the New Testament band of c.1957) inspired me to give the 1946 big band studio sides another listen. I've always been particularly fond of "Our Delight", "One Bass Hit Pt 2", "Things to Come", "Ray's Idea" and "Emanon". Highlights for me are the arrangements (Dameron, certainly, Gil Fuller as well, I would guess) and Kenny Clarke's drumming (unmistakably Klook at such an early date), not to mention Diz's superlative soloing.

Edited February 25, 2020 by BillF

[Gheorghe]

Yes, Bill, though "Groovin´High" is one of the best known bop sessions , it always makes me to listen to it again and again. I´m lucky I know a trumpet player who is very much into that Music and we play it as often as we have the possibility. 

And here is another one from around 1949. It may not have the Musical depth of the "Groovin High" , but still very interesting. Beautiful ballads also, and really funny those Things like "Hey Pete, let´s eat more meat" or "In the Land of Oo bla Dee" …….

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Gheorghe

[jazzcorner]

Have some early Gillespie big band Lp's herer. Can you supply a date or period when they were recorded?

There is nothing in the liner notes.

Thanks

 

[Gheorghe]

33 minutes ago, jazzcorner said:

Have some early Gillespie big band Lp's herer. Can you supply a date or period when they were recorded?

There is nothing in the liner notes.

Thanks

 

Well, most Big Band Recordings Dizzy made were in the years 1946-1948/49, then Dizzy was forced to disband. The big band Things started after Diz returned from the West Coast (Billy Berg´s ), and I think the venue where they performed was the Spotlite. There´s a marvelous double CD of the 1946 band at Spotlite too. The Studio Recordings that followed were for the RCA Label. 

[Big Beat Steve]

@BillF:Those early Diz sides of 1945 etc. sure made the rounds. Their presence on that legendary 70s Prestige twofer (disucssed elsewhere recently here) is known but I wasn't aware that Savoy had control of the masters for a while too to reissue them. Amazing ... I wasn't aware Savoy made that extensive use of other 78rm era labels except National (and DeeGee).

@EKE BBB: I took the recording year from the reissue but checked neither Jepsen nor Bruyninckx so an error may be there somewhere. As for the reissues you mentioned, some of them actually are more something like different pressings (worthy of preservation in their variety too, of course). ""Guilde du Jazz" (as in the starting post of this topic) indicates a French Jazztone pressing, and "Concert Hall Society" was Jazztone under a different guise too. Not sure whether these catered to different markets of the record club business as I have seen US pressings of both Jazztone and Concert Hall Society with their typical thick cardboard covers, for example.

@Gheorghe: To be more precise one would need to know which LPs jazzcorner is referring to. Not having my discographies on hand I can only guess but I think the GNP "In Concert" reissue that is out there, for example, is what has been reissued elsewhere as the "Pasadena" concert. The RCA releases and reissues (i.e. the STUDIO recordings by the big band) usually are very well documented in the liner notes of the commonly accessible reissues, starting with the 60s "RCA Vintage Series" (which was my first exposure to the RCA big band sides and was a real ear opener) to the Black & White LP on French RCA you showed and then to the Jazz Tribune series 2-LP set (French RCA again) with the full output that superseded the two individual LPs in the Black & White series.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Big Beat Steve

[Gheorghe]

Another of my favourites. I Always liked the sides Sarah Vaughan made with the boppers Diz and Bird, and the string Thing of "If you could see me now" arranged by Tadd Dameron, coincidally with Bud Powell on piano. 

And of Course the Billy Eckstine Big Band. I love those sides and bought that double LP in the late 70s, Fantastic ballads , this Wonderful voice, and also some vintage Bebop Bigband Sound on let´s say "Second Balcony Jump", "Oo Bop ´sh Bam" etc......

Edited February 25, 2020 by Gheorghe

[Clunky]

On 21/02/2020 at 8:36 AM, sidewinder said:

I think it was Clunky who said he had a 78 of the ‘Wailing Wall’.

Well remembered I think you might be right. I’ve pretty much stopped adding 78s to my collection on account of just how much space and weight they take up.  
 

I’ve a fair number of Esquire UK 78 issues of Dial material. My understanding is that these date from the early 50s so were released later than the Dials. The sound is usually very good but I’ve no idea whether  they had access to masters or metal parts etc . They certainly don’t sound like the 78 dubs that I’ve come across. 

[EKE BBB]

6 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

Well, most Big Band Recordings Dizzy made were in the years 1946-1948/49, then Dizzy was forced to disband. The big band Things started after Diz returned from the West Coast (Billy Berg´s ), and I think the venue where they performed was the Spotlite. There´s a marvelous double CD of the 1946 band at Spotlite too. The Studio Recordings that followed were for the RCA Label. 

6 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Gheorghe: To be more precise one would need to know which LPs that jazzcorner is referring to. Not havnig my discographies on hand so I can only guess but I think the GNP "In Concert" reissue that is out there, for example, is what has been reissued elsewhere as the "Pasadena" concert. The RCA releases and reissues (i.e. the STUDIO recordings by the big band) usually are very well documented in the liner notes of the commonly accessible reissues, starting with the 60s "RCA Vintage Series" (which was my first exposure to the RCA big band sides and was a real ear opener) to the Black & White LP on French RCA you showed and then to the Jazz Tribune series 2-LP set (French RCA again) with the full output that superseded the two individual LPs in the Black & White series.

Quick overview of Gillespie's big band/orchestra studio recordings from the late 40s, courtesy of Tom Lord Discography:

-----------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra: Dizzy Gillespie (tp) Don Byas (ts) Milt Jackson (vib) Al Haig (p) Bill De Arango (g) Ray Brown (b) J.C. Heard (d)
New York, February 22, 1946

PD6VB1682-1    52nd Street theme (*)    Vic LPV530, HMV B9631, RCA Victor RD7827, RCA (F)741106, RCA Bluebird 5785-1-RB, 2177 [CD], Giants of Jazz (Eu)CD53122 [CD]
PD6VB1682-2    52nd Street theme    Vic 40-0130, HMV B9631, LPM2398, (F)FFLP1018, RCA (F)75424, 430215, 741106, RCA Bluebird 2177 [CD], Acrobat (E)ADDCD3205 [CD]
PD6VB1683-1    A night in Tunisia    Vic 40-0132, LPM2398, HMV B9631, (F)FFLP1018, RCA (F)75424, 430215, 731068, Franklin Mint GJR041, Official (Dan)3056-2, RCA luebird 2177 [CD], Giants of Jazz (Eu)CD53122 [CD], Acrobat (E)ADDCD3205 [CD]
PD6VB1683-2    A night in Tunisia (incomplete,*,#)    Vic LPV530, RCA Victor RD7827, RCA (F)741106, Bluebird 5785-1-RB PD6VB1684-1    Ol' man rebop    Vic 40-0130, HMV (E)B9624, DLP1047, RCA (F)731068, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Giants of Jazz (Eu)CD53122 [CD]
PD6VB1685-1    Anthropology (db out)    Vic 40-0132, 27-0137, LPT26, LJM3046, HMV B9624 DLP1047, DLP1054, LPM2398, (F)FFLP1018, RCA (F)75424, 430215, 741106, RCA Bluebird 2177 [CD], Giants of Jazz (Eu)CD53122 [CD]
PD6VB1685-2    Anthropology (db out,*)    Vic LPV530, RCA Victor RD7827, RCA (F)741106, Bluebird 5785-1-RB Note:    Bluebird 5785-1-RB titled "Dizziest"; see various flwg sessions to July 6, 1949 for the rest of this LP.
RCA Bluebird 2177 [CD] titled "The bebop revolution"; see August 22, 1947 and December 22 & 30, 1947 for more titles from this CD; the rest of this CD by 52nd Street All-Stars, Coleman Hawkins, Kenny Clarke, Lucky Thompson.

All titles, except (*), also on RCA LPM2398 titled "The Greatest of Dizzy Gillespie".
All titles, except (*), also on RCA (E)RD27242 titled "The Greatest of Dizzy Gillespie".
All titles, except (*), also on Classics (F)935 [CD].
All titles, except (#), also on RCA (F)PM4208.
All above titles also on Bluebird 66528-2 [CD] titled "Complete RCA Victor Recordings"; see flwg sessions to July 6, 1949 for rest of CD.
All above titles also on Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD119 [CD].

--------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie, Dave Burns, Ray Orr, Talib Ahmad Dawud, John Lynch (tp) Alton "Slim" Moore, Leon Comegys, Charles Greenlee (tb) John Brown, Howard Johnson (as) Ray Abrams, Warren Lucky (ts) Pee Wee Moore (bar) Milt Jackson (p) Ray Brown (b) Kenny Clarke (d) Alice Roberts (vcl) Gil Fuller (arr)
New York, June 10, 1946

5550    Our delight    Musicraft 399, MVS2010, Saga (E)ERO8017, Savoy MG12020, Everest FS272, BYG (F)529145, Musidisc (F)30CV1156, Official (Dan)3056-2, Savoy SV0152
[CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
5551    Good dues blues (ar vcl,gf arr)    Musicraft 399, MVS2010 Note:    Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD] titled "Dizzy Gillespie - Cubana Be, Cubana Bop".

Both above titles also on Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD] titled "Dizzy Gillespie Big Band - Algo Bueno"; this is a 2 CD set.
Both above titles also on Prestige P24030, Ember CJS837, Ember (E)EMB3344, Phoenix LP4, Musicraft MVSCD53 [CD], Classics (F)986 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD149 [CD], Definitive (And)DRCD11382 [CD], Tring (Eu)GRF065 [CD].

----------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Dave Burns, Talib Ahmad Dawud, John Lynch, Elmon Wright (tp) Alton "Slim" Moore, Leon Comegys, Gordon Thomas (tb) John Brown, Howard Johnson (as) Ray Abrams, Warren Lucky (ts) Pee Wee Moore (bar) Milt Jackson (vib) John Lewis (p) Ray Brown (b) Kenny Clarke (d) Alice Roberts (vcl) Gil Fuller (arr)

New York, July 9, 1946

5609    One bass hit (II) (gf arr,#)    Musicraft 404, MVS2010, Saga (E)ERO8017, Savoy MG12020, BYG (F)529145, Musidisc (F)30CV1156,Savoy SV0152 [CD]
5610    Ray's idea (gf arr,#)    Musicraft 487, MVS2010, Ember CJS837, (E)EMB3344,Savoy MG12020, BYG (F)529145, Musidisc(F)30CV1156, Savoy SV0152 [CD], Tring (Eu)GRF065[CD]
5611    Things to come (gf arr,#)    Musicraft 447 MVS2010, Ember (E)CJS837, EMB3344,Saga (E)ERO8017, Savoy MG12020, Franklin Mint GJR042, BYG (F)529145, Musidisc (F)30CV1156, Official (Dan)3056-2, Savoy SV0152 [CD],(It)SVZ-0901 [CD], Tring (Eu)GRF065 [CD], Topaz(E)TPZ1063 [CD]
5612    He beeped when he shoulda bopped (ar vcl,gf arr)    Musicraft 487, MVS2010, Saga (E)ERO8017
            He beeped when he shoulda bopped (dg vcl,gf arr,*)    Musicraft MVS2010

Note:    Savoy (It)SVZ-0901 [CD] titled "The Savoy Story"; This CD included exclusively with Musica Jazz Magazine n. 10/92.
(#) These 3 titles also on Everest FS272, Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD].
All titles, except (*), also on Allegro LP3083, Prest P24030, Phoenix LP4.
Franklin Mint GJR042 titled "The Greatest Jazz Recordings Of All Time".
All above titles also on Musicraft MVSCD53 [CD], Classics (F)986 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD149 [CD], Definitive (And)DRCD11382 [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].

------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie, Dave Burns, Elmon Wright, Matthew McKay, John Lynch (tp) Alton "Slim" Moore, Taswell Baird, Gordon Thomas (tb) John Brown, Scoops Carey (as) James Moody, Bill Frazier (ts) Pee Wee Moore (bar) Milt Jackson (vib) John Lewis (p) Ray Brown (b) Joe Harris (d) Kenny Hagood (vcl) Gil Fuller (arr)

New York, November 10, 1946

5788    I waited for you (kh vcl,mj out,gf arr)    Musicraft 518, MVS2010, Ember CJS837, Prest P24030
5789    Emanon (gf arr)    Musicraft 447, MVS2010, Savoy MG12020, Prest P24030, Saga (E)ERO8017, BYG (F)529145, Musidisc (F)30CV1156, Savoy SV0152 [CD], Tring (Eu)GRF065 [CD]

Note:    Some sources give date as November 12, 1946.
Both above titles also on Ember (E)EMB3344, A.R.C. (E)ARC82, Phoenix LP4, Musicraft MVSCD53 [CD], Bandstand (E)BDCD1534 [CD], Classics (F)986 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD149 [CD], Definitive (And)DRCD11382 [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].

-------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Dave Burns, Elmon Wright, Matthew McKay, Ray Orr (tp) Taswell Baird, William Shepherd (tb) John Brown, Howard Johnson (as) James Moody, Joe Gayles (ts) Cecil Payne (bar) John Lewis (p,arr) Milt Jackson (vib) John Collins (g) Ray Brown (b) Joe Harris (d) Kenny Hagood (vcl)

New York, August 22, 1947

D7VB1542-1    Ow !    Vic 20-2480, LPV519, LJM1009, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Official (Dan)3056-2, RCA Bluebird 2177 [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
D7VB1543-1    Oop-pop-a-da (dg,kh vcl)    Vic 20-2480, LPV519, Franklin Mint GJR042, Saga Jazz (F)066469-2 [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
D7VB1544-1    Two bass hit (jl arr)    Vic 20-2603, LJM1009, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, RCA LPM2398, RCA (E)RD27242, RCA Bluebird 2177 [CD]
D7VB1545-1    Stay on it    Vic 20-2603, LPV519

Note:    Some sources do not show Milt Jackson (vib). However, on "Ow !" and "Two bass hit" according to the liner notes of RCA Bluebird 2177-2-RB [CD] the personnel listed here was the RCA Records listing, clearly designed for union contract/payroll use and includes Social Security numbers.
All above titles also on RCA (F)731068, PM42408, RCA Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Classics (F)986 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD179 [CD], Bluebird 66528-2 [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].

For sessions of September 13 & 20, 1947 see This Is Jazz.
For a session of September 29, 1947 see Charlie Parker.

-------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Willie Cook, Dave Burns, Elmon Wright (tp) Andy Duryea, Sam Hurt, Jesse Tarrant (tb) John Brown, Ernie Henry (as) Joe Gayles, Budd Johnson (ts) Cecil Payne (bar) James "Hen Gates" Foreman (p,cel) Al McKibbon (b) Teddy Stewart (d) Sabu Martinez (bgo,vcl) Joe Harris (cga) Gerald Wilson (arr)

New York, December 29, 1948

D8VB4148-1    Guarachi guaro (gw arr; sm,ens vcl)    Vic 20-3370, LPV530, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, RCA Bluebird 2177-2-RB [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
D8VB4149-1    Duff capers    Vic LJM1009, RCA LPV530, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD]
D8VB4150-1    Lover come back to me    Vic 20-3370, RCA LPV530, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD]
D8VB4151-1    I'm be boppin' too (dg, ens vcl,*)    Vic LJM1009
D8VB4151-2    I'm be boppin' too (dg, ens vcl)    RCA LPV530, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]

Note:    Bluebird 5785-1-RB entitled "Dizziest".
All above titles also on RCA (F)741095, PM42408, Bluebird 66528-2 [CD].
Notes to Bluebird 66528-2 [CD] give tk 2 of "I'm Be Boppin' Too" as recorded on May 6, 1949.
All titles, except (*), also on RCA Victor RD7827, Classics (F)1102 [CD].

-----------------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,arr) Benny Harris, Willie Cook (tp) Andy Duryea, Sam Hurt, Jesse Tarrant (tb) John Brown, Ernie Henry (as) Yusef Lateef, Joe Gayles (ts) Al Gibson (bar) James "Hen Gates" Foreman (p,celesta) Al McKibbon (b) Teddy Stewart (d) Vince Guerra (cga) Johnny Hartman (vcl) Budd Johnson, Gil Fuller, Jimmy Mundy (arr)

New York, April 14, 1949

D9VB471-1Swedish suite (gf arr)Vic 20-3457, LJM1009, RCA (F)731068, PM42408, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, RCA LPM2398, (E)RD27242

D9VB472-1St. Louis blues (bj arr)Vic LJM1009, RCA LPV530, (F)741095, PM42408, RCA Victor RD7827, Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]

D9VB473-1I should care (jh vcl,dg arr,*)Vic 20-3457, RCA (F)741095

D9VB474-1That old black magic (jh vcl, jm arr,*)Vic 20-3481, RCA (F)741095, Bluebird 5785-1-RB

Note:All above titles also on RCA Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Classics (F)1102 [CD], Bluebird 66528-2 [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].
(*) These two titles also on Proper (E)INTROCD2051 [CD], The Jazz Factory (Sp)JFCD22829 [CD], Essential Jazz Classics (Sp)EJC55669 [CD].

----------------------------------------------------

Joe Carroll (vcl) added, Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) rest same

poss Chicago, May 6, 1949

D9VB1010-1    Katy [Dizzier and Dizzier]    Vic LJM1009, RCA (F)741095, PM42408, RCA LPM2398, (E)27242, Official (Dan)3056-2, RCA Bluebird 2177-2-RB [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD], FDM36756-2 [CD]
D9VB1011-1    Jump did-le-ba (dg,jc vcl)    Vic LPV519, RCA (F)741095, RCA Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Saga Jazz (F)066469-2 [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
D9VB1009-1    You go to my head (jh vcl,*)    RCA Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Essential Jazz Classics (Sp)EJC55669 [CD]

Note:    All titles, except (*), also on Classics (F)1102 [CD].
All above titles also on Bluebird 66528-2 [CD]; notes to this double CD give remake (tk 2) of" I'm Be Boppin' Too" as from this session (see December 29, 1948).
All above titles also on Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].

----------------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Charles Greenlee, J.J. Johnson (tb) replaces Andy Duryea, Jesse Tarrant, Joe Carroll, Johnny Hartman out

New York, June/July 1949

Good bait    Spotlite (E)SPJ122, Musica Jazz (It)MJCD1094 [CD] Algo bueno [Woody'n you]            -                      -
Minor walk            -
Half Nelson            -
Cool breeze (incomplete)            -

----------------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Benny Harris, Elmon Wright, Willie Cook (tp) Andy Duryea, Charles Greenlee, J.J. Johnson (tb) John Brown, Ernie Henry (as) Yusef Lateef, Joe Gayles (ts) Al Gibson (bar) James "Hen Gates" Foreman (p) Al McKibbon (b) Teddy Stewart (d) Joe Carroll, Johnny Hartman (vcl) George Handy, Buster Harding (arr)

New York, July 6, 1949

D9VB1793-1    Hey Pete, let's eat mo' meat ! (dg,jc,ens vcl;bh arr)    Vic LJM1009, RCA LPV530, RCA (F)PM42408, Bluebird 5785-1-RB
D9VB1794-1    Jumpin' with Symphony Sid    Vic LJM1009, RCA LPV530, (F)PM42408, RCA Bluebird 2177-2-RB [CD], Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]
D9VB1795-1    If love is trouble (jh vcl; gh arr,*)    Vic 20-3538, The Jazz Factory (Sp)JFCD22829 [CD], Essential Jazz Classics (Sp)EJC55669 [CD]
D9VB1796-1    In the land of oo-bla-dee (jc vcl)    Vic 20-3538, RCA LPV530, RCA (F)PM42408, Bluebird 5785-1-RB, Dreyfus (F)FDM36720-2 [CD]

Note:    All titles, except (*), also on RCA Victor RD7827.
All above titles also on RCA (F)741095, Classics (F)1102 [CD], Bluebird 66528-2 [CD], Definitive (And)DR2CD11138 [CD].

-------------------------------------------------

Dizzy Gillespie And His Orchestra : Dizzy Gillespie (tp,vcl) Willie Cook, Don Slaughter, Elmon Wright (tp) Matthew Gee, Sam Hurt, Charles Greenlee (tb) Jimmy Heath, John Coltrane (as) Jesse Powell, Paul Gonsalves (ts) Al Gibson (bar) Johnny Acea (p) John Collins (g) Al McKibbon (b) Specs Wright (d) Tiny Irvin (vcl) Buster Harding, Gerald Wilson, Jimmy Mundy (arr)

New York, November 21, 1949

4316    Say when (jm arr)    Cap 797, 5C052.80852, M11059, One-Up (E)OU2006
4317    Tally-ho (gw arr)        839,  -           -               -
4318    You stole my wife you horsethief (dg vcl; bh arr)        797,  -           -               -
4319    I can't remember (ti vcl)        839

Note:    All above titles also on Capitol CR8084.
All above titles also on Classics (F)1168 [CD] titled "Dizzy Gillespie and his Orchestra 1949-1950"; see flwg sessions to November 1, 1950 for rest of CD.

Edited February 25, 2020 by EKE BBB

[JSngry]

IMO, the Gillespie big band of the 40s was best captured on live recordings, notably from Salle Pleyel & Pasadena Civic Auditorium. There's some earlier (and at least one later) gigs that are good enough, but those two are transcendent, whatever that means...

[jazzcorner]

7 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Gheorghe: To be more precise one would need to know which LPs jazzcorner is referring to. Not having my discographies on hand I can only guess but I think the GNP "In Concert" reissue that is out there, for example, is what has been reissued elsewhere as the "Pasadena" concert. The RCA releases and reissues (i.e. the STUDIO recordings by the big band) usually are very well documented in the liner notes of the commonly accessible reissues, starting with the 60s "RCA Vintage Series" (which was my first exposure to the RCA big band sides and was a real ear opener) to the Black & White LP on French RCA you showed and then to the Jazz Tribune series 2-LP set (French RCA again) with the full output that superseded the two individual LPs in the Black & White series.

Form some reasons the cover scans of my Gillespie big band LPs did not appear.

Here they are again (all have no Information of rec. date).Its a bit tiresome to look up  every track in the great listing above

Have some dates from other sources but I am not certain

Gillespie,Dizzy       "Groovin` High"(Bigband & Combo)   probably 1944-45       Savoy          12020

Gillespie,Dizzy       The greatest of...  probably 1946-48       RCA   2398

Gillespie,Dizzy       The Champ (Bigbandjazz) 1951??   Savoy 12047

Gillespie,Dizzy       Bigband in Concert probably 1948  Gene Norman Presents    23

Gillespie,Dizzy       Paris Concert         probably1952  GNPS 9006

Gillespie,Dizzy       ...& Johnny Richards Orchestra(strings)       1946          Savoy 12110

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by jazzcorner
text format

[EKE BBB]

2 minutes ago, jazzcorner said:

Form some reasons the cover scans of my Gillespie big band LPs did not appear.

Here they are again (all have no Information of rec. date).Its a bit tiresome to look up  every track in the great listing above

Have some dates from other sources but I am not certain

Gillespie,Dizzy       "Groovin` High"(Bigband & Combo)   probably 1944-45       Savoy          12020

 

Gillespie,Dizzy       The greatest of...  probably 1946-48       RCA   2398

 

Gillespie,Dizzy       The Champ (Bigbandjazz) 1951??   Savoy 12047

 

Gillespie,Dizzy       Bigband in Concert probably 1948  Gene Norman Presents    23

 

Gillespie,Dizzy       Paris Concert         probably1952  GNPS 9006

Gillespie,Dizzy       ...& Johnny Richards Orchestra(strings)       1946          Savoy 12110

 

It shouldn't be so tiresome. Check issue reference number (e.g. Savoy 12020) in my list above. But take into consideration that I only included studio dates.

[Big Beat Steve]

24 minutes ago, JSngry said:

IMO, the Gillespie big band of the 40s was best captured on live recordings, notably from Salle Pleyel & Pasadena Civic Auditorium. There's some earlier (and at least one later) gigs that are good enough, but those two are transcendent, whatever that means...

Any opinions on the Carnegie Hall concert recordng of 29 Sept. 1947?

Re- the concert at Salle Pleyel in February, 1948, here is a cutting from a French family magazine of spring, 1948, telling the touching story of a young boy struck down with polio at the age of 13 and finally venturing out among the public (though still bed-stricken) at age 17 in 1948 to see his idol Dizzy Gilespie live in concert at Pleyel.

 

 

[JSngry]

35 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Any opinions on the Carnegie Hall concert recordng of 29 Sept. 1947?

It's good enough from the big band's perspective, but the quintet pieces are what's rightfully legendary from that gig, imo.

[sidewinder]

6 hours ago, Clunky said:

Well remembered I think you might be right. I’ve pretty much stopped adding 78s to my collection on account of just how much space and weight they take up.  
 

I’ve a fair number of Esquire UK 78 issues of Dial material. My understanding is that these date from the early 50s so were released later than the Dials. The sound is usually very good but I’ve no idea whether  they had access to masters or metal parts etc . They certainly don’t sound like the 78 dubs that I’ve come across. 

I’m a fount of useless remembered facts. 

Maybe Carlo Krahmer did a deal with Ross Russell for the Dial metal parts, the same way he did with Prestige later on?

 

 

 

 

 

[jazzcorner]

4 hours ago, EKE BBB said:

It shouldn't be so tiresome. Check issue reference number (e.g. Savoy 12020) in my list above. But take into consideration that I only included studio dates.

4 hours ago, EKE BBB said:

 

11 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

@Gheorghe: To be more precise one would need to know which LPs jazzcorner is referring to.

 

Thanks for the reply. All I found is indeed only the Savoy LP 12020 in your listing above.. All other Cat# are not in your listing.

I think I will check Discogs too.

W

 

[Gheorghe]

16 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Any opinions on the Carnegie Hall concert recordng of 29 Sept. 1947?

Re- the concert at Salle Pleyel in February, 1948, here is a cutting from a French family magazine of spring, 1948, telling the touching story of a young boy struck down with polio at the age of 13 and finally venturing out among the public (though still bed-stricken) at age 17 in 1948 to see his idol Dizzy Gilespie live in concert at Pleyel.

 

 

Thanks for posting this. Really a moving article. 

And agree to what you said About the two live Recordings from France 1948 and Pasadena also 1948. I posted the Album covers on Monday here.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Gheorghe

[Peter Friedman]

Jazz in the late 40's included a lot go good music other than early bebop. Here are a few off my shelves.