Does Oscar Peterson get a bad rap?

[hopkins]

40 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

Sorry for asking, but when was this? I think this experience was true of many, but I wonder whether it still is.

For me, as a young jazz listener (late 1990s), Oscar Peterson was really not an obvious figure with whom to start. I only gradually discovered him as I went deeper, by following through the various Granz catalogues. 

I started seriously appreciating jazz only 10 years ago. It had always been there, but only for casual listening. You can imagine that I have a lot to catch up to... 

[Guy Berger]

3 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Sorry for asking, but when was this? I think this experience was true of many, but I wonder whether it still is.

For me, as a young jazz listener (late 1990s), Oscar Peterson was really not an obvious figure with whom to start. I only gradually discovered him as I went deeper, by following through the various Granz catalogues. 

I first got into jazz and had the same experience.  I mostly “knew of him” because my dad (who wasn’t a big jazz fan) liked him.

[Pim]

8 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

Ok, it is time for still one more "bash" Oscar Peterson thread.

Well if you have enough time… there’s always this:

or this:

 

[mhatta]

I am relatively young in this forum, so I was not in an environment where Oscar Peterson naturally came to my ears, but OP was always mentioned in books introducing jazz in Japan, and many libraries and record stores had LOTS of his works. I still like OP and occasionally listen to his The Trio stuff.  BTW, I was surprised that Ahmad Jamal is treated like a god in the US. In Japan, he is like just one of them, rarely mentioned, and many people don't know about them.

Regardless, I think OP is quite an anomaly. His playing is great in technique and musicality, but I don't think it had the rich, intense power that would make us in awe of him, like Bud Powell did (even Tatum sometimes showed such quality). In a word, he was carefree (that might be one of the reason his ballad playing is exquisite but somewhat dull). I wonder if it is because he is black but from Canada and successful at a young age.

Edited March 4 by mhatta

[AllenLowe]

1) per Dan Gould's question, I like Gene Harris; not my favorite pianist, but a really fine player with a sense of pace and real feeling.

2) To say that someone who does not like OP is "narrow minded" is unfair. My feelings about him are clear, but I probably have more varied musical tastes than about 90 percent of the jazz population.

3) I am a little distressed at the comments that still describe Tatum and Peterson as similar in some ways. Not to pull rank, but as a musician I hear a world of difference, and it is primarily harmonic. Tatum was one of the epochal harmonic masters of American music, and it takes a different kind of listening than that which you might bring to OP or most pianists. If I can I will find Lewis Porter's take on Tatum's brilliance and post a link.

here - start with this. Lewis is brilliant, he writes clearly, and he is a great pianist himself:

https://lewisporter.substack.com/p/tatums-dissonant-avant-garde-side

and this, from Lewis' thing on WBGO:

https://www.wbgo.org/music/2017-09-05/deep-dive-with-lewis-porter-in-praise-of-art-tatum-stealth-radical-in-the-jazz-piano-pantheon

 

Edited March 4 by AllenLowe

[mikeweil]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:05 AM, JSngry said:

Errol Garner was one of those people who could sound perfectly innocent while being pretty damn subversive. 

Magician indeed! 

That one convinces me. Just found a nicely priced copy and ordered it.

Edited March 4 by mikeweil

[AllenLowe]

45 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

That one convinces me. Just found a nicely priced copy and ordered it.

just to add, there are some incredible Youtube videos of Garner playing live.

[clifford_thornton]

Never really gave much thought to Peterson beyond what to me felt like an entirely mechanical approach to playing. Daniel A mentioned upthread the fact that he was releasing albums on MPS and honestly, that fact probably kept their rich and weird catalog funded...

An ex-girlfriend of mine's father was very into OP, dazzled by him, and was also a huge fan of later Return To Forever. I think it was the technical aspects of the playing that he was into, more than anything else.

[Stompin at the Savoy]

I can understand understand saying for example Peterson is too florid, busy, doesn't leave enough space, etc.  This is a criticism or observation of his style.   Earl Hines (etc) good, Oscar Peterson bad is a pretty crude analysis but I guess that is fashionable now.

Edited March 4 by Stompin at the Savoy

[JSngry]

I would never play poker with Earl Hines. 

[Teasing the Korean]

5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

3) I am a little distressed at the comments that still describe Tatum and Peterson as similar in some ways. Not to pull rank, but as a musician I hear a world of difference, and it is primarily harmonic. Tatum was one of the epochal harmonic masters of American music, and it takes a different kind of listening than that which you might bring to OP or most pianists. 

I completely agree with this.  When Oscar does his Tatum thing, it sounds very superficial to my ears.  I'm not an Oscar-hater by any means, but he is not in the same league as Tatum, not even close.