David S. Ware, Theatre Garonne 2008

[David Ayers]

How much David Ware do we need? Maybe not much, I don't know, but there is some good squeaking on this one.

 

Hadn't heard this group with Joe Morris before though there is a studio album with the same line-up recorded a little earlier the same month (Shakti). I quite enjoy the less piano-heavy sound.

Edited November 18, 2019 by David Ayers

[Д.Д.]

The only David S. Ware album I liked was "Corridors & Parallels" (AUM Fidelity, 2001) - and it was only thanks to Shipp's creative synth playing. Otherwise - yawn, as far as I an concerned. I saw his quartet live once around 2004-05 (right after a terrific Happy Apple set), and it was pathetic - formulaic boring fire music.    

[David Ayers]

Beethoven ruined music for everyone else, it's true. But we've got to have something. Otherwise it's Germany 1-0 ROW. And that cannot be. Cannot.

[Pim]

I love Ware, especially the Live in The World set. But have to admit that with the 4 records I own by him, I do not really feel the urge to buy more.

[Jim Duckworth]

My enjoyment of Mr. Ware's work depends an awful lot on what drummer is on board.  There is a whole slew of his recordings to which I never return owing to the drummer.

[David Ayers]

7 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said:

My enjoyment of Mr. Ware's work depends an awful lot on what drummer is on board.  There is a whole slew of his recordings to which I never return owing to the drummer.

 

naming no names but...?

[clifford_thornton]

I got into Ware later; at first when I heard him in the '90s it was hard for me to connect with. Now I love his playing. Only saw him once, in duo with Rashied Ali, which was interesting though on one level I thought it did not work. Fun to listen to that concert today, though. 

[Jim Duckworth]

12 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

 

naming no names but...?

Well, I really like the ones with Marc Edwards and Susie Ibarra...and at least one other.

[David Ayers]

2 minutes ago, Jim Duckworth said:

Well, I really like the ones with Marc Edwards and Susie Ibarra...and at least one other.

say no more, say no more...

[Steve Reynolds]

I’ve had a love/like/hate/ambivalent relationship with David S Ware over the past 20+ years. I saw him with the “famous” quartet with Susie Ibarra in the drummer's chair - with Shipp & Parker filling out the quartet. I also saw him with an “extended” band after Susie left with Guillermo Brown as the drummer with a trombonist that I’ve never been able to figure out a name for. I think that second show was probably 2000 or so. 

First show was at one of the poorer venues for Vision Fest and the sound was awful. For whatever reason while Ware was blowing like a MF’er, I could hear mostly Shipp, Parker & Ibarra. The next show was hindered by sub-optimal drumming. Both shows and many recordings lessened in impact by too much Shipp. Dude always played WAY too much. He’s become a bit more restrained in recent years but not back 15-20 years ago. Ware also plays too long and too much.

BUT he had a huge sound, big heart and nobody has ever played the upper register like the Big Man did. 

So sad that he wasn’t able to take the stage for Vision Fest in June 2012 due to his declining health. It was a huge downer that night that we didn’t get to hear his group with Cooper-Moore.

[Д.Д.]

21 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

say no more, say no more...

I think Guillermo E. Brown was almost universally derided when he joined the band. I did not like his playing that much (did not hate it either), but never though he was the main problem - merely the third most boring player in the band. Now, if only they played the String Quartet No. 15 in A minor, Op. 132 all would have been just fine. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Д.Д.

[Steve Reynolds]

6 hours ago, Д.Д. said:

I think Guillermo E. Brown was almost universally derided when he joined the band. I did not like his playing that much (did not hate it either), but never though he was the main problem - merely the third most boring player in the band. Now, if only they played the String Quartet No. 15 in A minor, Op. 132 all would have been just fine. 

If you think Shipp & Parker are boring, I’ve been of that mindset off and on for 20+ years as well. I’ve also seen/heard Parker more recently where he has played better than I’ve ever heard him before. He was fantastic at the concert @ Shapeshifter Labs in 2017 with Rob Brown, Cooper-Moore & Hamid Drake.

Same goes for Shipp. He was great with Evan Parker & Paul Lytton this spring @ Roulette and in a short duet with Mat Maneri a few weeks back his playing was transcendent.

I’ve ALSO heard Shipp (most egregiously for me in 2012 with a quartet with Paul Dunmall on tenor saxophone, Joe Morris on double bass & Gerald Cleaver on drums) when he never relents and never gives the music any space rendering most of all of his notes/playing superfluous. At that concert it stifled Dunmall until the last 10 or 15 minutes when he finally gave the music the space it needed for the great tenor saxophonist to express himself successfully.

Also it might be noted that these days (and for at least 10 or 15 years now), this sort of modern day “Fire Music” is far from my musical core interest and to my ears there are many more attractive and more creative improvising musicians doing/playing more exciting brands of free jazz/freely improvised music of all sorts than this “wing” or “strain” of the modern forms of improvised music.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Steve Reynolds

[David Ayers]

I knew Ware from Dark to Themselves, way back. Picked up Cryptography and the Columbia’s. Gave up and sold them (not DtK!). Dipping in again now to later recordings I do find something to enjoy.

[relyles]

In the past week I have felt the impulse to fill in gaps in my David S. Ware collection. In addition to the new release I picked up a few missing items to complete all of his leader dates available on CD, except for the solo saxophone recordings. I have also been listening to his earlier appearances on recordings by Cecil Taylor, Andrew Cyrille's Maono and early William Parker sessions on the Centering box set. At times Ware's playing can be a little dense or relentless, but there is something about his music that continues to make me want to listen.

[clifford_thornton]

That trio set with Ware, Parker & Charles (iirc Patricia Nicholson dances as well, can't quite remember) from the Centering box is pretty amazing.