2019-2020 MLB Hot Stove Thread

[Brad]

It was tested this year in done independent leagues and I think is being used in the Fall League. I can see it showing up in MLB in two or three years. 

[Dan Gould]

I don't think the reviews from the AFL are nearly so universally bad. Corners and sides were called accurately, the problem was with pitches clipping the very bottom of the strike zone right at the front, which would be caught "in the dirt" and still called strikes, and same thing for late breaking curves catching the top of the zone. I am sure these are things that can be adjusted in the technology, or if it really can't be, umpires can have discretion but only on those types of pitches.

IMHO they should drop the superimposed box entirely or go to robo-umps calling balls/strikes by what they are told in their ear piece as soon as possible. There are still too many crappy umps at home plate. An end to the "he missed where the catcher set up but it was right down the middle - I'm going to call it a ball" calls would be very welcome. 

Not to mention the ump in the WS who didn't ring up the batter because the catcher assumed the call and walked out of the box. 

 

 

[Dan Gould]

New "modern era" list for HoF:

https://www.mlb.com/yankees/news/10-players-named-to-hof-modern-baseball-era-ballot

The National Baseball Hall of Fame announced 10 candidates under consideration for induction as part of the 2020 Modern Baseball Era ballot: Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker.

 

So should it be Jeter with Munson and Mattingly to boot next summer?  I think Marvin Miller always deserved it, any of these guys belong ahead of Harold f-ing Baines. (I realized when Baines was on the ballot he averaged about 5.5% for six years - their ought to be a decent minimum % when the writers are voting to even be considered subsequently.)

 

But first on my list would be Dewey Evans who hit with power and got on base a ton before that was ever recognized.  Career OPS+ of 127, all those GGs, nearly 400 home runs.  It's time - I hope.

[Brad]

I don’t how many they pick but my top 5 would be Marvin Miller, Dave Parker, Tommy John, Mattingly and Dwight Evans.

The Golden Era Committee doesn’t meet until 2021, which doesn’t make sense to me but perhaps there’s a good reason. 

[JSngry]

If Trammel, then Whitaker.

[Dan Gould]

32 minutes ago, Brad said:

I don’t how many they pick but my top 5 would be Marvin Miller, Dave Parker, Tommy John, Mattingly and Dwight Evans.

The Golden Era Committee doesn’t meet until 2021, which doesn’t make sense to me but perhaps there’s a good reason. 

They alternate or rotate among committees. I think next is back to executives/non-players which means Steinbrenner probably gets another bite at the apple in a year. Though if that's the name of the committee how is Marvin Miller on this year's list?

14 minutes ago, JSngry said:

If Trammel, then Whitaker.

Yes!

[Brad]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

If Trammel, then Whitaker.

Yes, but should Trammel be there.  I guess that question’s been answered, though. 

[ghost of miles]

One of my baseball-circle-texting friends sent a link to the original Athletic article with the comment that the Astros are doing their best to overtake the Yankees as MLB's evil empire.  I will cheer them on in that endeavor!    To me it's one thing if one team notices that a pitcher is somehow tipping his pitches, but when you start pulling stadium technology and the baseball operations staff into it, it's crossing a line into cheating.  I'm sure Houston's not the only team to have done so, but man, it confirms once again to me that there's an organizational rottenness in general when it comes to the Astros.

Following accusations of sign-stealing during this year's postseason, one former Houston Astros pitcher said members of the organization devised a system in 2017 to steal signals from opposing teams.

Per The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich, Mike Fiers and three other people who were with the organization in 2017 said the Astros developed a system for home games that was aided by a camera set up in the outfield.

"That's not playing the game the right way," said Fiers. "They were advanced and willing to go above and beyond to win."

Rosenthal and Drellich reported the system began early in 2017 and involved "at least two uniformed Astros" who planned out how to do it. The setup "required technical video knowledge and required the direct aid of at least some on the baseball operations staff."

Mike Fiers admits Astros stole signs electronically during 2017 season

 

I mean, ffs!

The Astros' setup involved a television on a wall steps from their dugout connected to a camera feed from center field, which was trained on the opposing catcher's signs.

"Team employees and players would watch the screen during the game and try to decode signs—sitting opposite the screen on massage tables in a wide hallway [that leads from the clubhouse to the dugout]," Rosenthal and Drellich wrote.

"When the onlookers believed they had decoded the signs, the expected pitch would be communicated via a loud noise—specifically, banging on a trash can, which sat in the tunnel. Normally, the bangs would mean a breaking ball or off-speed pitch was coming."

Danny Farquhar, who made two appearances against the Astros in September 2017 for the Chicago White Sox, told Rosenthal and Drellich he remembered hearing something coming from Houston's dugout while he was on the mound.

"There was a banging from the dugout, almost like a bat hitting the bat rack every time a changeup signal got put down," Farquhar said. "After the third one, I stepped off. I was throwing some really good changeups, and they were getting fouled off. After the third bang, I stepped off."

[ghost of miles]

Astros using cameras to steal signs, a breakdown

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

Astros using cameras to steal signs, a breakdown

For fuck's sake indeed. That video breakdown of what Farquahar said is brutal. Will MLB do anything?

[ghost of miles]

6 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

For fuck's sake indeed. That video breakdown of what Farquahar said is brutal. Will MLB do anything?

I’ll confess I don’t even know what MLB’s rules are re using technology to steal signs, or what meaningful punitive actions could be levied against the Astros. But this to me deeply taints their recent success, and also makes me lose respect for A.J. Hinch, who had to have known about this. No wonder Houston’s put up such good offensive numbers and been so tough at home. And as skeptical as I was of Trevor Bauer’s public speculation about how they’d improved their pitchers so much, now I have to wonder about that as well. All the more credit to your Red Sox for busting their chops in the ALCS last year.

MLB shouldn't expect too much from the Astros' investigation of their own cheating

In other news, O.J. Simpson still on the hunt for "the real killers!"  

Edited November 13, 2019 by ghost of miles

[ghost of miles]

Some self-appointed Wikipedia contributor is engaged in wishful thinking on Houston's Wiki page:

After being accused of cheating on November 12, 2019 for using electronic video technology to steal signs, the Astros 2017 World Series was vacated and given to the Dodgers.

I certainly wouldn't be bothered if Manfred decided to strip them of their 2017 WS title, but that ain't gonna happen because he's shown himself to be a wuss about matters like this, and also most likely because the rule forbidding use of an outfield camera came into effect only this season, correct?  I don't know what the rules were re camera placement and other use of technology for sign-stealing in 2017.  Perhaps instead Manfred can dictate that the team's name be changed to the Houston Asterisks.

[soulpope]

9 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

Astros using cameras to steal signs, a breakdown

A shame for the Astros .... and not good for baseball at all ....

[Dan Gould]

6 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

I’ll confess I don’t even know what MLB’s rules are re using technology to steal signs, or what meaningful punitive actions could be levied against the Astros. But this to me deeply taints their recent success, and also makes me lose respect for A.J. Hinch, who had to have known about this. No wonder Houston’s put up such good offensive numbers and been so tough at home. And as skeptical as I was of Trevor Bauer’s public speculation about how they’d improved their pitchers so much, now I have to wonder about that as well. All the more credit to your Red Sox for busting their chops in the ALCS last year.

MLB shouldn't expect too much from the Astros' investigation of their own cheating

In other news, O.J. Simpson still on the hunt for "the real killers!"  

Someone should be going thru Houston video to find as many examples of that banging as can be found. If its just fastball/not a fastball that isn't hard to decipher and communicate, and just how long did it ever last? Farquahar figured it out pretty quick, and it would only be happening in situations with no runners at second, right?

As far as the pitching goes, its all about spin ratios right?  So maybe they got a hold of some sort of 'stick-um' type of substance that dries on the pitchers hands and doesn't leave residue on the ball?  That's where my mind went when I thought of the improvement in pitchers that sign with them.

[Brad]

Has any title ever been vacated in pro sports because of cheating? Not that I can recall (not that I’ve carried out any exhaustive research). It seems evident that the 1951 Giants had an elaborate sign stealing system that may have helped them win the pennant although Bobby Thomson claimed he never knew what was coming in the climactic at bat but the Giants never suffered any repercussions when their system was disclosed years later. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Brad

[Matthew]

The Old School method of stoping that would have been: keep the same signs, have the catcher call for a change up, and the pitcher aim very, very, high-and-tight, basically throw at the batters head. Those days are lone gone though.

If even Bud Selig couldn't vacate Barry Bonds as home run king, nothing' going to happen here, maybe a hefty fine. Interesting that the Hacking Scandal was by an ex-Astro employee. Guess we know where he learned that from.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Matthew

[JSngry]

Bill Belichick yawns, rolls over, and goes back to sleep.

 

[Dan Gould]

Of course nothing will happen other than perhaps a fine.  I'd like to be a fly on the wall while Houston investigates.

"Did you do it?"

"I told you the plan and you said to do it. So yes, we did it."

 

Anyway - Kapler lands in San Francisco. He's like the Beto of Baseball. Failing upward. You would think his reputation would take a hit after two years of failure in Philly but no ... (and I say this as someone who remembers fondly how, in the 2004 World Series film - I think one of the extra features, it wasn't in the main movie - how every single player, to a man, said Gabe Kapler when asked favorite teammate (maybe there was one guy who didn't say "Kapler"). He's clearly a good guy ... just not sure about his total baseball acumen or suitability as a manager.)

[Brad]

21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Bill Belichick yawns, rolls over, and goes back to sleep.

 

3 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Anyway - Kapler lands in San Francisco. He's like the Beto of Baseball. Failing upward. You would think his reputation would take a hit after two years of failure in Philly but no ... (and I say this as someone who remembers fondly how, in the 2004 World Series film - I think one of the extra features, it wasn't in the main movie - how every single player, to a man, said Gabe Kapler when asked favorite teammate (maybe there was one guy who didn't say "Kapler"). He's clearly a good guy ... just not sure about his total baseball acumen or suitability as a manager.)

He’s becoming the Adam Gase of baseball. 

[Dan Gould]

3 minutes ago, Brad said:

He’s becoming the Adam Gase of baseball. 

Thanks for leading me to find out who the head coach of the Jets is. Thank God Google is free.

[Matthew]

7 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Anyway - Kapler lands in San Francisco. He's like the Beto of Baseball. Failing upward. You would think his reputation would take a hit after two years of failure in Philly but no ... (and I say this as someone who remembers fondly how, in the 2004 World Series film - I think one of the extra features, it wasn't in the main movie - how every single player, to a man, said Gabe Kapler when asked favorite teammate (maybe there was one guy who didn't say "Kapler"). He's clearly a good guy ... just not sure about his total baseball acumen or suitability as a manager.)

A front office that wants to run every aspect of the team, on and off field, love a manager like Kapler. Does whatever they want, no questions asked...

[Brad]

Just now, Matthew said:

A front office that wants to run every aspect of the team, on and off field, love a manager like Kapler. Does whatever they want, no questions asked...

Sounds like the Mets but it also describes the current theory of management in baseball.

[Dan Gould]

1 minute ago, Matthew said:

A front office that wants to run every aspect of the team, on and off field, love a manager like Kapler. Does whatever they want, no questions asked...

Does this extend to calling down to the dugout to direct the next pitching change and/or double switch? I understand front offices are asserting more control over what a manager does but how far does it go? And is Kapler still the best candidate?

[Matthew]

21 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Does this extend to calling down to the dugout to direct the next pitching change and/or double switch? I understand front offices are asserting more control over what a manager does but how far does it go? And is Kapler still the best candidate?

Any in-game suggestion will be followed. Bruce Bochy was pretty much untouchable during his final year last season, but you could tell he wasn't too impressed with the direction of the front office, especially with the constant stream of players who Bochy was ordered to play (two of the opening day outfielders were in the line up by order of Farhan Zaidi to "showcase" them to other teams). Kapler knows he's not there for innovation, but to keep the clubhouse happy and let others do the heavy thinking. 

Giants fans don't seem to be too impressed, Kapler has issues

Edit: Money quote from another article:

Although Kapler’s leadership style resonated with his roster in Philadelphia, he had a much stronger connection to Phillies’ management than he did with his own dugout. 

“I always thought in Philadelphia, he bonded a lot better with the front office than he did with the clubhouse,” Salisbury said. “I didn’t think they always played for him, but I think he always responded to what the front office wanted.”

Edited November 13, 2019 by Matthew

[JSngry]

What? Management views labor as mere interchangeable/replaceable/disposable pawns and looks for lower-level management stooges  to proceed accordingly and unquestioningly?

When did The Great Game Of Baseball become so out of touch with the realities of Everyday America?