KENNY DORHAM

[Claude Schlouch]

At last on issued on Dragon DRCD 482

[mikeweil]

Any details?

Can't find anything on the web; Dragon' site doesn't work.

[Stonewall15]

More information please. Looks interesting.

[jcam_44]

Kenny Dorham - Swedish Sessions 1964

sample: I Had The Craziest Dream

Amazon: KD Swedish Sessions

Edited October 14, 2019 by jcam_44

[Dan Gould]

Looks similar to Scandia Skies/Short Story on Steeplechase?  Isn't Dragon kind of an iffy label?

If its legit "new" I will definitely put on the want list.

[Claude Schlouch]

24 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Looks similar to Scandia Skies/Short Story on Steeplechase?  Isn't Dragon kind of an iffy label?

If its legit "new" I will definitely put on the want list.

Nothing  to do with the material issued on Steeplechase.

[erwbol]

Their Miles Davis spring/autumn 1960 tour release certainly was legit.

And I believe Sonny Rollins Trio 1959 in Stockholm (DRCD 229) is too.

Edited October 14, 2019 by erwbol

[sonnymax]

Unknown studio, Stockholm, January 15, 1964

Kenny Dorham (tpt) Bertil Löfgren (tpt) Sahib Shihab (bs) Lars Sjösten (p) Bjørn Alke (b) Bo Skoglund (d)

Short Stay (K. Dorham) 10:36

I Concentrate on You (C. Porter) 7:35

Not Yet (S. Shihab) 10:10

 

Golden Circle, Stockholm, 1964 or 1965

Kenny Dorham (tpt) Göran Lindberg (p) Göran Pettersson (b) Leif Wennerström (d)

Short Story (Dorham) 6:53

Dorams Epitaph a.k.a. Extension (Dorham) 7:02

For All We Know (Karlin, Wilson, Griffin) 7:00

I Had The Craziest Dream (Warren, Gordon) 6:25

Skandia Skies (Dorham) 7:44

 

entire album on Spotify

Edited October 14, 2019 by sonnymax

[Rooster_Ties]

Looks lovely on paper. Will have to check this out!

[Claude Schlouch]

2 hours ago, sonnymax said:

Unknown studio, Stockholm, January 15, 1964

Kenny Dorham (tpt) Bertil Löfgren (tpt) Sahib Shihab (bs) Lars Sjösten (p) Bjørn Alke (b) Bo Skoglund (d)

Short Stay (K. Dorham) 10:36

I Concentrate on You (C. Porter) 7:35

Not Yet (S. Shihab) 10:10

 

Golden Circle, Stockholm, 1964 or 1965

Kenny Dorham (tpt) Göran Lindberg (p) Göran Pettersson (b) Leif Wennerström (d)

Short Story (Dorham) 6:53

Dorams Epitaph a.k.a. Extension (Dorham) 7:02

For All We Know (Karlin, Wilson, Griffin) 7:00

I Had The Craziest Dream (Warren, Gordon) 6:25

Skandia Skies (Dorham) 7:44

 

entire album on Spotify

First title is Short Story.

Full album also on Deezer.

Very good mono sound quality!

Enjoy!

[jcam_44]

Full album is also on apple music

[bertrand]

Just came across this.

I can download 6 of the 8 tunes for free from my public library and am about to do so. Where can I buy the full CD?

I noticed the Library site lists Lars Westin as co-leader, but there is no one by that name in the personnel above.

The fact that there is a full version of Dorham's Epitaph makes it worth tracking down.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by bertrand

[Daniel A]

Hi Bertrand. Lars Westin is the founder and owner of Dragon Records and is listed as the producer on the back of the release.

The CD can be ordered from Amazon for instance. 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Daniel A

[Daniel A]

On 2019-10-14 at 7:55 PM, Dan Gould said:

  Isn't Dragon kind of an iffy label?

If its legit "new" I will definitely put on the want list.

I'm a bit late to comment, but Dragon is a proper label. No grey/PD type of releases. 

[Big Beat Steve]

On 14.10.2019 at 7:55 PM, Dan Gould said:

Looks similar to Scandia Skies/Short Story on Steeplechase?  Isn't Dragon kind of an iffy label?

If its legit "new" I will definitely put on the want list.

I wonder how there can be ANY doubt about Dragon being "legit".

Dragon has been around for 30+ years and has set standards in reissues of Scandinavian jazz. Any Japanese label with the mark "Not for sale outside of Japan" AND YET sold outside Japan is iffier than Dragon.

[Dan Gould]

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I wonder how there can be ANY doubt about Dragon being "legit".

Dragon has been around for 30+ years and has set standards in reissues of Scandinavian jazz. Any Japanese label with the mark "Not for sale outside of Japan" AND YET sold outside Japan is iffier than Dragon.

Longevity in the marketplace doesn't mean anything.

And how is it that you know they have legitimate rights to all those live recordings by Miles, Sonny, Jazz Messengers etc etc? They started putting them out in the 80s long before there could be any claim to being PD. 

[Daniel A]

I can only speak for myself and not for Steve, but I know people with insight in the company. Actually, it has not primarily been a reissue label through the years, but has recorded a lot of current Swedish musicians. I played on the latest release on the label, recorded in 2019. 

As for live recordings of guesting stars in the 1960s, it is my understanding that these releases are legit from the way they were arranged with Swedish Radio back then. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Daniel A

[Dan Gould]

25 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I can only speak for myself and not for Steve, but I know people with insight in the company. Actually, it has not primarily been a reissue label through the years, but has recorded a lot of current Swedish musicians. I played on the latest release on the label, recorded in 2019. 

As for live recordings of guesting stars in the 1960s, it is my understanding that these releases are legit from the way they were arranged with Swedish Radio back then. 

 

 

I saw the many studio recordings by Swedish artists on the Discogs page.  

So are you saying that the music was properly licensed from Swedish Radio back in the 80s when these recordings were first released?

Or that the artists came and performed, and were compensated for not only the broadcast but future releases of the recordings? Wouldn't that have violated the rights of, for one example, Blue Note Records, for the Messengers releases?

There are two interests involved, owners of the recordings and the artists recorded.

[Daniel A]

I am afraid I do not know the details. However, I note that the Dragon releases are registered with NCB, the Nordic Copyright Bureau, which is administrating mechanical rights in the Nordics, and which is bound to international agreements with corresponding organizations for rights' holders across the world. If they are doing their job, it should not be possible to register unauthorized recordings with them. It does also seem as if for instance the Dragon Records release of the Miles Davis 1960 Stockholm performances is still carried by Amazon US, both as a CD and a download, also after the release of the same material in the Columbia "Bootleg" series.

Nothing of the above proves anything of course, but I doubt we can get hardcore evidence without going into the books of the company. But that is outside of my reach.

Edit to add final circumstantial evidence: The company which is doing the layout for booklets of Dragon releases is credited for some of the photos in the Miles Davis Columbia Bootleg series release.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Daniel A

[JSngry]

Wasn't/Isn't it standard practice for a release to be signed by the performer(s) prior to a broadcast that essentially cedes all ownership of the broadcast and its recording to the broadcaster?

Use of those recordings has certainly changed over the decades, but the contracts/releases have not.

Moral of the story, perhaps - think about what you sing before you sign it.

[Dan Gould]

In the case of the Messengers, would Art have had authority to cede to Swedish radio any and all uses? Seems that Dragon is doing things right as required by applicable laws in Sweden. But it seems like, if Blakey was under contract with Blue Note, that Blue Note or its then-current corporate masters could have asserted rights when a live recording of the group got released. Same potentially with Columbia and Miles though it sounds like they took care of it by just issuing it themselves? What was Dragon's rights versus Columbia's?

[Daniel A]

9 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Same potentially with Columbia and Miles though it sounds like they took care of it by just issuing it themselves? What was Dragon's rights versus Columbia's?

I'm still just speculating (which is however fun to do, of course!), but since it is now on both labels, maybe there was no easy way of defining the respective rights. I would assume that if anybody would be more prone to take it to court, it would be Columbia, but maybe not even they though it was worth the trouble. According to publicly available records, the Dragon Records of today has a yearly turnover below 20K Euro, so not much incentive from their side, I would think.

[JSngry]

35 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

In the case of the Messengers, would Art have had authority to cede to Swedish radio any and all uses? Seems that Dragon is doing things right as required by applicable laws in Sweden. But it seems like, if Blakey was under contract with Blue Note, that Blue Note or its then-current corporate masters could have asserted rights when a live recording of the group got released.

What was the jurisdiction of a Blue Note contract? Was there specific language pertaining to international radio & concert appearances, or was it just to do with studio recordings?

[Big Beat Steve]

Daniels has said (and nailed) it all. The live recordings issued'/reissued by Dragon have been licensed from Swedish Radio, and considering the stature and responsiblity of this public (!) radio corporation I'd be very surprised if the radio people did not have the paperwork to prove they are entitled to make (or grant) use of the recordings made for THEM according to however THEY see fit. Not any different from what the (Swiss) Montreux Jazz label or the (German) JazzHaus/SWR Music label does.

And what Jim Sangrey said about the performers signing contracts with the radio stations to enable the radio station to make use of the recordings has indeed been mentioned in various sources related to this sort of releases.

Anyway ... it remains funny how many on the US side keep nagging about what can rightfully be issued and reissued elsewhere off the US shores - strange that no complaints are made against Japanese reissues (oh so dear to the hearts of so many US collectors, regardless of the fine print - see above ...)

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Big Beat Steve

[Dan Gould]

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

What was the jurisdiction of a Blue Note contract? Was there specific language pertaining to international radio & concert appearances, or was it just to do with studio recordings?

Contact legal.