Let's Hear it for the Byrds

[Chuck Nessa]

I take it we aren't talking about Donald and Emery.

[Matthew]

I take it we aren't talking about Donald and Emery.

Moldy fig alert!

[Big Al]

By the way, just how bad is that reunion album they did in '73?

Well, it cost me a quarter, but I got my answer:

I want my money back.

[Big Al]

For some reason, I actually enjoy "Mind Gardens," but only if I don't listen to the words themselves. Crosby's voice blends nicely with the guitars, making the whole piece sound very melodic.

[Teasing the Korean]

...The Notorious Byrd Bros....as sonically satisfying as anything Brian Wilson put together...

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[Teasing the Korean]

...Fifth Dimension is their absolute classic, especially the remaster...

I hope you're telling us they used the MONO mix for the remaster, as the stereo mix is lopsided and unlistenable.

And yes, if you cut out the filler and add the bonus tracks from the CD, you get a really solid 10" album.

[Teasing the Korean]

Playing around with the program feature on my CD player, I came up with this alternate "Turn Turn Turn" track lineup:

Side 1:

Turn Turn Turn

It Won't Be Wrong

Set You Free This Time

Lay Down Your Weary Tune

She Don't Care About Time (single version)

He Was a Friend of Mine

Side 2:

The World Turns All Around Her

The Day Walk

The Times They Are A-Changin (alternate version)

If You're Gone

Wait and See

It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

It would have been a better album, IMO...

[Big Al]

Playing around with the program feature on my CD player, I came up with this alternate "Turn Turn Turn" track lineup:

Side 1:

Turn Turn Turn

It Won't Be Wrong

Set You Free This Time

Lay Down Your Weary Tune

She Don't Care About Time (single version)

He Was a Friend of Mine

Side 2:

The World Turns All Around Her

The Day Walk

The Times They Are A-Changin (alternate version)

If You're Gone

Wait and See

It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

It would have been a better album, IMO...

I absolutely, totally, 100% AGREE!!! I'm gonna try that lineup tomorrow. But I'm also gonna add "Stranger in a Strange Land," just because I love that grooooooove!

[Big Al]

...The Notorious Byrd Bros....as sonically satisfying as anything Brian Wilson put together...

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I was wondering if anyone was ever gonna call me out for that....

[Hot Ptah]

By the way, just how bad is that reunion album they did in '73?

Well, it cost me a quarter, but I got my answer:

I want my money back.

I know that I am in a distinct minority, but I like the 1973 reunion album. It is not a Byrds album. It is more of an "acoustic guitar/singer-songwriter" album of that era. For that, it is no worse than many albums in that genre from that period. It was common for two or more folksy singer songwriters to join together and record an album at that time, with varying results.

To me, it is not a disaster or unlistenable. Someone expecting to hear what "Younger Than Yesterday" would have sounded like if Gene Clark was still in the band would be disappointed, as they did not even try to match the sound of the 1960s Byrds.

[Hot Ptah]

...The Notorious Byrd Bros....as sonically satisfying as anything Brian Wilson put together...

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I was wondering if anyone was ever gonna call me out for that....

I agree with you. I like Notorious Byrd Brothers better than anything Brian Wilson put together.

[Big Al]

By the way, just how bad is that reunion album they did in '73?

Well, it cost me a quarter, but I got my answer:

I want my money back.

I know that I am in a distinct minority, but I like the 1973 reunion album. It is not a Byrds album. It is more of an "acoustic guitar/singer-songwriter" album of that era. For that, it is no worse than many albums in that genre from that period. It was common for two or more folksy singer songwriters to join together and record an album at that time, with varying results.

To me, it is not a disaster or unlistenable. Someone expecting to hear what "Younger Than Yesterday" would have sounded like if Gene Clark was still in the band would be disappointed, as they did not even try to match the sound of the 1960s Byrds.

And for that, I applaud them; I knew it wasn't going to sound like a "Byrds album." And I agree with your assessment that it's a singer/songwriter album. But with their level of talent, they still should've been able to put out something that was better than the bland CSN-type album they actually produced.

[Teasing the Korean]

In the Gene Clark bio, it says that McGuinn was saving his better stuff for his next solo album, and used the rejects for the Byrds album.

Al, believe it or not, I actually bought that album in the cutout bin for a quarter, told them it was defective and got my 25 cents back!!!

[Hot Ptah]

In the Gene Clark bio, it says that McGuinn was saving his better stuff for his next solo album, and used the rejects for the Byrds album.

Al, believe it or not, I actually bought that album in the cutout bin for a quarter, told them it was defective and got my 25 cents back!!!

That is interesting in that I always thought that the material was disappointingly weak on the first few McGuinn solo albums in the mid-1970s.

The "Roger McGuinn" album included some sideman blowing by Charles Lloyd, but the material was not good enough to make that as interesting as it would have been if a jazz saxophonist had been included on "Eight Miles High" for example.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Hot Ptah

[Stereojack]

I always thought that the material was disappointingly weak on the first few McGuinn solo albums in the mid-1970s.

I was disappointed in McGuinn's Columbia solo albums as well.

The Byrds reunion album was hardly a reunion at all, it was a series of short solo albums with very little give and take. I heard that the reason Gene Clark did a couple of Neil Young songs was because each member had been given the opportunity for two songs, and Mike Clarke, not being a singer or songwriter, chose two Young songs for Gene to sing.

[Guy Berger]

It just goes to show how listeners can differ widely in their reactions. The Gene Clark contributions to the early Byrds albums have always left me cold. I have never understood the excitement about him.

I like some of his contributions to those early albums, but think the band got better after he left. That may be due more to the emergence of Hillman and Crosby as songwriters.

Guy

[Guy Berger]

The Dylan covers, for me, are the low point of those early records, despite however groundbreaking they may have been at the time. It's ironic that my favorite Dylan cover of theirs was the one that remained in the can until the box set.

The Dylan covers were hit and miss -- but I love their versions of "Mr. Tambourine Man", "Chimes of Freedom" and ESPECIALLY "My Back Pages".

Guy

[Teasing the Korean]

The Dylan covers, for me, are the low point of those early records, despite however groundbreaking they may have been at the time. It's ironic that my favorite Dylan cover of theirs was the one that remained in the can until the box set.

The Dylan covers were hit and miss -- but I love their versions of "Mr. Tambourine Man", "Chimes of Freedom" and ESPECIALLY "My Back Pages".

Guy

You know, after I posted that I thought about what I wrote, and yeah, I hear what you're saying. Some are better than others. I'm so sick of "Tambourine" I don't know if I like it or not, but I do like "Chimes" and "Pages."

A couple I really don't care for are "Spanish Harlem Incident" and "Times They Are a Changin," although I like the alternate version.

I LOVE "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue."

[Big Al]

In the Gene Clark bio, it says that McGuinn was saving his better stuff for his next solo album, and used the rejects for the Byrds album.

Al, believe it or not, I actually bought that album in the cutout bin for a quarter, told them it was defective and got my 25 cents back!!!

Well, I did buy it at a fundraiser for the Arlington Public Library, so it wasn't TOO big of a ripoff!

[Teasing the Korean]

This thread has me looking over the first 5 Columbia Byrds albums (the only ones that really interest me) and the incredible Preflyte 2-disc set.

I'm curious as to what people think of Jim/Roger McGuinn, and what his contributions to the group were. Obviously, there's the Dylan-esque whine, the electric 12-string, and most importantly, the granny glasses. But it's kind of surprising that the only 2 songs that he wrote by himself - on the these albums, at least - are "5D" and "Mr. Spaceman." Correct me if I'm wrong.

Curiously, he was the one who apparently kept the group together - by default, at least, being that he either fired everyone or prodded them into quitting.

I'm not knocking the guy, but it seems like kind of an odd group dynamic, considering his contributions relative to those of his bandmates.

McGuinn may have grown as a songwriter/singer/instrumentalist in the second version of the Byrds, but he comes off as one of the guys in the first group.

I can't think of another rock/pop group that has attained this kind of legendary stature that includes a McGuinn like figure, i.e. ruling the band with an iron fist but not being the major artistic contributor.

Apologies in advance if this post has offended any Byrds fans. I just think it's an interesting group dynamic.

[kenny weir]

I just think it's an interesting group dynamic.

I suspect you're right.

But at the same time, I wouldn't put too little emphasis on such a catalyst-like role.

For me the peak of the Byrd's came on a handful of tracks on Untitled. On that album White was the stellar talent, and Battin and Parsons the journeymen. But it was McGuinn that made it the Byrds.

I'm trying to think of other outfits that had a similar dynamic.

Eddie Condon fits, I reckon.

[Hot Ptah]

In the book "Where Are You Now, Bo Diddley?" by Edward Kiersh, there is a chapter which consists of an interview with McGuinn. He states that he was a guitarist with Bobby Darin and learned from Darin how to lead a group and handle the music business. He was then a staff songwriter in the Brill Building in New York, until a promoter approached him to form a group. The Byrds were always his group, according to McGuinn. The other musicians were his choice of collaborators or sidemen. According to McGuinn in this interview, as time went on, David Crosby wanted to be elevated to co-leader, but McGuinn saw that as an impossible way to run a band. So McGuinn fired Crosby, paid Crosby off with $50,000, which Crosby used to buy a big luxury boat, and the group went on.

According to McGuinn in this interview, the Byrds were his idea, his conception, and his business responsibility from the beginning, and the other musicians were there if he wanted them to be there.

On "Mr. Tambourine Man", McGuinn sings and plays guitar. All of the other musicians playing on it were Los Angeles studio pros. None of the other Byrds played on the single.

The Kiersh book is quite interesting. It is a series of interviews with many late 1960s and early 1970s rock stars, conducted in the 1980s, about what they are doing now that they are obscure historical figures with virtually no musical careers. Some of the aging stars had adjusted to their decline in circumstances much better than others.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Hot Ptah

[Teasing the Korean]

Now I understand why they kicked him out of the band:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3wuy5oyemE0

[porcy62]

Now I understand why they kicked him out of the band:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3wuy5oyemE0

You shouldn't fire a guy with such a nice hat.

[Teasing the Korean]

Has anyone read the Gene Clark bio "Mr. Tambourine Man?" It is such a sad story - intense stage fright, distaste for touring and traveling, endless substance abuse. In some ways, he never really got his career into a consistent groove after the Byrds. On the other hand, he made at least 5 really solid albums after the Byrds, created a substantial body of work, and wrote at least 3 tunes that have left a lasting impression, at least on couple of generations of listeners.

I have been listening a lot to the 2-disc "Preflyte Sessions" from 1964, most of which consists of Gene Clark songs - many never recorded for Columbia. While McGuinn's 12-string Rick and Crosby's harmonies in many ways define the Byrds sound, I still contend that Clark's songs were the best material they ever did. That said, "Younger Than Yesterday," recorded after Clark left, is a pop/rock masterpiece. IMHO.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Teasing the Korean