Let's Hear it for the Byrds

[A Lark Ascending]

The recent thread on 60s pop/rock groups had me playing "Younger than Yesterday" again.

Inspired by the Beatles? Undoubtedly.

But what they did with that, linking it with any number of US musics.

And Crosby's jazz sensibility. Still underappreciated!

I remember hearing 'Mr Tambourine Man' in the mid 60s on the radio, 'Chesnut Mare' much much later. But the 80s opened this music to me. Reading how much it inspired the likes of Fairport Convention drew me right in.

Some of the moist affecting music of the latter half of thev 20thC.

Let's hear it for The Byrds!

(Sorry...in my enthusiasm I spelt 'hear' wrong in the title. But then the Byrds spelt their name wrong too!)

Edited July 28, 2009 by Bev Stapleton

[J.A.W.]

I attended a Byrds date in the late 1960s. Don't remember much of it, other than that it impressed me less than the Jefferson Airplane concert in Amsterdam, also in the late 1960s, where Jim Morrison, who was supposed to play next with the Doors, acted like a fool and subsequently fell ill.

The Byrds were a great group though, and I have many of their albums on CD, from Mr Tambourine Man to Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Don't care much for their later albums.

[A Lark Ascending]

No, it's patchy after Sweetheart. But up to then I just find it so life-enhancing.

Some of my favourite music.

[J.A.W.]

P.S. If anyone's interested, I still have the now OOP 4CD-set The Byrds for sale, for $35 plus shipping. It contains their albums plus extras, and a nice booklet.

Sorry Bev, but I couldn't resist...

Edited March 13, 2004 by J.A.W.

[A Lark Ascending]

The box was a god buy before the reissues. After that, well...

[BFrank]

"Ladies and gentlmen, let's have a fine hand for.....the BYRDS!"

I love that live stuff on "Untitled"!

[Big Al]

Yes, yes, YES Younger than Yesterday!!! Very definitely my favorite Byrds album, and the reissue makes it even sweeter with the inclusion of "It Happens Each Day." Pity that didn't make the original LP, as it would've fit nicely alongside gems like "Everybody's Been Burned," "Have You Seen Her Face," and "My Back Pages." Not only that, I also like it that hidden at the end is the instrumental of "Mind Garden." Could these guys play guitar or what? And didn't Chris Hillman come into his own as a songwriter on this album? "Time Between," " Thoughts and Words," the aforementioned "Face," each show musical intelligence and probably the first inklings of the counrty/rock movement that Hillman (with and without the Byrds) would pioneer.

Y'ever notice not much gets said about The Notorious Byrd Bros.? I've never understood why. That's like the undiscovered gem of the Byrds catalog, on a par with the Beatles White Album, and as sonically satisfying as anything Brian Wilson put together. It would be a great album if the only track was "Goin' Back," but how about that punchy brass on "Artificial Energy," the time-defying rhythms of "Get to You" and "Dolphin Smile," and the electro-country kick of "Old John Robinson?" I once read a review that likened this album to the Beatles Revolver, and I heartily concur.

(Speaking of the Beatles, I hope that if/when they ever get around to giving their catalog the sonic upgrade it richly deserves, they pay attention to how the Byrds catalog was upgraded. This is a perfect example of how to do a reissue series properly. From the photos, to the essays, to the session notes, and most importantly to the overall sound quality. This is how to pay tribute to a band's legacy!)

Only recently did I start to appreciate and enjoy Sweetheart of the Rodeo for the wonder it is. Once I got past the absence of the 12-string and the presence of fiddles & banjos, I started to hear a delicate, warm, dare I say "spiritual" album whose sunny qualities reveal themselves more with each listen. And for all the talk about this being a country album, "One Hundred Years from Today" and "Nothing was Delivered" rock harder than anything this side of "Eight Miles High!"

Whew! Thanks for starting this thread, Bev. You gots good taste in music. (Doubtless you've heard the Byrds influence on XTC, especially on English Settlement, no?)

By the way, just how bad is that reunion album they did in '73?

Edited March 13, 2004 by Big Al

[Brandon Burke]

Love the Byrds certainly but to me it was all about (fellow Kansan) Gene Clark. In fact, I like Gene Clark with the Gosdin Brothers more than any straight Byrds release.

[kenny weir]

Yep, I love the Byrds - although it's a matter of specific tracks rather than whole albums.

Gene Clark is a whole 'nuther thing. At one time, about 15 years ago, I had just about everything he recorded. And I agree, the Gosdin Bros album is a killer, but so are Roadworthy, the first Dillard & Clark album, the A&M album sometimes called White Light and No Other, which has recently been reissued with extra tracks. And then there's the singles track, Here Tonight, on the third Flying Burritos album.

Sadly, what with one thing and another, these days I am down to an exceelent Raven comp called American Dreamer, which nevertheless does have tracks off the above albums.

[A Lark Ascending]

(Doubtless you've heard the Byrds influence on XTC, especially on English Settlement, no?)

Oh, Yes.

The Byrds have had an impact on a wide range of English pop and rock.

They somehow took that technicolour sound of the Beatles records and took it somewhere else. There's more 'lift' on the Byrds records and the country/bluegrass element just makes it all so distinctive.

For me Crosby is the unsung hero. Clark, McGuinn, Parsons, Hillman all get frequent critical applause. Crosby is still potrayed as a silly stoned hippy, a spoilt rich boy who lacked the talents of his peers. Yet I love the strange chords he used in his songs both in the Byrds and later in CSN&Y. It all culminated in 'If I Could Only Remember My Name', one of my favourite solo albums. Due for a sonic upgrade fairly soon I believe.

We're nearly 40 years down the line from the great Byrds tracks and they still thrill me. Regular Saturday night music.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[Brandon Burke]

For me Crosby is the unsung hero. Clark, McGuinn, Parsons, Hillman all get frequent critical applause. Crosby is still potrayed as a silly stoned hippy, a spoilt rich boy who lacked the talents of his peers. Yet I love the strange chords he used in his songs both in the Byrds and later in CSN&Y. It all culminated in 'If I Could Only Remember My Name', one of my favourite solo albums. Due for a sonic upgrade fairly soon I believe.

Yes and no.

Crosby is a big time 'MOJO' fave. In fact, you can assume that every single issue of 'MOJO' has an article on either (1) a specific drug's influence on rock music, (2) Brian Wilson (and more specifically on Smile), or (3) Crosby. In fact, Crosby's become someone that it's so hip to like that people are actively avioding it. And I guess that's me. Let me put it in a football sense. (I love sports analogies.) Let's say that Leeds is the new sexy pick to make some noise in the upcoming season. For a while, everyone picks up on this and writes articles, starts conversations, etc. Eventually there will be a backlash wherin the new hip thing to do is not pick the hip team. Admittedly.........that's where I stand with Crosby right now. I've heard enough. I like the record but need to hear it in a different "climate", if you know what I mean. Too much baggage.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[A Lark Ascending]

Well, I recall a big article in Mojo a few issues back to rehabilitate him. I'd hardly say he's there all the time.

My experience of reading about Crosby has been largely derogatory articles. Partly a result of the general reaction against CSN&Y from the mid-70s from which only Young came out unscathed; partly because he just was so distant from the post-punk sensibility...the archetypal hippy that everyone loved to hate in the 80s; and partly because he comes across as not a very nice person in his heyday - spoilt, arrogant, pushy.

Regardless of all of that I think you can trace a line from The Byrds and through the several versions of CSN&Y and find a totally distinct way of writing songs. And it lies in those chords. It was only recently that I became aware of just how keen he'd been on jazz which might explain alot. The tracks that jump out on the very so-so CS&N album of the mid 70s are Crosby's. And the generally hopeless American Dream has an absolute sparkler in Crosby's 'Compass'. I've not heard any of his music beyond that.

He's not a consistent talent - he can't produce the gems like Young could, again and again. His extra-curricular activities resulted in lots of dross along the way where he clearly was not paying attention.

But when he was focussed - 'Renaissance Fair', 'Everybody's been Burned', 'Deja Vu', 'Laughing, 'In My Dreams', 'Compass' - then I'd say he has the distinctiveness of Joni Mitchell. He was no virtuoso - in fact I doubt if I could point to a single track and say 'That's Crosby's guitar.' But he seemed to have an ear for, an interest in unusual progressions.

I'm not making a claim for him as 'the best Byrd'. That would be silly. But he's the one whose music has constantly touched me over the years. Possibly because I knew his music well before I really got to know the Byrds properly.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[GregK]

I particularly like the Byrds albums after Sweetheart of the Rodeo. Easy Rider and Untitled are the ones I go to most frequently. Just something about that lonely late-60s feeling that make them special. I think their last 2 are worth hearing too (not counting that awful reunion record), and the live at the Fillmore disc that came ou 4 years ago is pretty good too, although not as thrilling as the live side of Untitled. Overall though the Byrds' entire body of work is excellent

[tonym]

Sorry, I only own one Byrds compilation album but I'm aware of their massive influence upon rock and pop. I for one am entirely grateful for this becausse without them, we may not have had the likes of the wonderful Teenage Fanclub, one of my favourite bands from the last 20 years.

I'm sure there are countless others who feel this way about many other bands.

Thanks Roger et al.

[paul secor]

I've always liked Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and along with it, the collection of outtakes that Sundazed released on an LP, Sanctuary IV (I imagine that the outtakes are also on CD).

About Crosby - those who like him, like him. I've always found him to be more than a little pretentious (though my wife says that same thing about me, now and again.) Since this thread started with Younger Than Yesterday, does anyone find Crosby's "Mind Garden" (think that's the title - don't have the record handy) even close to being listenable?

P.S. - Whenever I see the name Byrds, I hear it the way Doug Sahm pronounced it on a tape I have, the Buhrds

Edited March 14, 2004 by paul secor

[Brandon Burke]

I for one am entirely grateful for this becausse without them, we may not have had the likes of the wonderful Teenage Fanclub, one of my favourite bands from the last 20 years.

I only recently re-dicovered Teenage Fanclub. Like many, I fell off the TF wagon shortly after Thirteen but, for whatever reason, I found I was dying to hear them again. So I went out and bought Songs from Northern Britain about two weeks ago, having read some stellar reviews. (I had never heard this one before.) Anyways, I've been listening to it non-stop ever since. The first two songs are particularly Byrds-esue.

I think what attracts me most to Teenage Fanclub (aside from the fact that we both appear to like the same 60's and 70's records) is the way they seem to be "over" trying to be hip. They sound completely content (as individuals) and utterly disinterested in cuteness, being clever or anything else PoMo. I find this very refresing.

Edited March 14, 2004 by Brandon Burke

[Tjazz]

I still like the McGuinn stuff and Hillman solo or group tracks.

Desert Rose Band was good.

[Guy Berger]

I've always liked Sweetheart of the Rodeo, and along with it, the collection of outtakes that Sundazed released on an LP, Sanctuary IV (I imagine that the outtakes are also on CD).

About Crosby - those who like him, like him. I've always found him to be more than a little pretentious (though my wife says that same thing about me, now and again.) Since this thread started with Younger Than Yesterday, does anyone find Crosby's "Mind Garden" (think that's the title - don't have the record handy) even close to being listenable?

Yeah, I think "Mind Garden" is listenable. Parts of it are good, parts not so good -- it's one of the weaker songs on the album (along with McGuinn's "CTA 102", the one about the aliens). But Crosby also co-wrote "Everybody's Been Burned" and "Renaissance Fair" to the same album, so we'll forgive him.

My favorite Byrds albums are #1 and #4-6. The second and third seem a little rushed and unfinished, with typical mid-60s rock album filler.

Guy

[A Lark Ascending]

Since this thread started with Younger Than Yesterday, does anyone find Crosby's "Mind Garden" (think that's the title - don't have the record handy) even close to being listenable?

Strange that 'Mind Gardens' should be considered pretentious nonsense whilst the excesses of the free-jazz avant-garde are treated with reverence.

Crosby was listening to that stuff and 'Mind Gardens' strikes me as his rather clumsy attempt to do something similar - not another pretty, jangly tune but something angular, discordant, obtuse. Yes, the lyrics are nonsense but then so are the lyrics of 'I am the Walrus'. OK, he (and the Byrds in general) didn't have anything close to the instrumental abilities to pull off that sort of thing convincingly.

Here's a man attempting to do what pop and rock stars are constantly accused of failing to do. At the height of pop success he takes chances. OK, the resulting piece of music is nothing very great but I just wonder. What is the difference between trying to be creative and challenging and just being pretentious. I'd suggest the difference lies in how posterity has placed you - if you've become a myth your every musical squiggle becomes an attempt to push the musical envelope; if you've become a laughing stock then that squiggle becomes pretension.

'Mind Gardens' is not a track I'd ever feel the desire to play on its own or put on a compilation. But in the context of the album it has its place.

[chris olivarez]

I saw the Byrds during the Gram Parsons era and needless to say a totally different group from their beginning. I enjoyed a lot of what they did and will probably revisit them sometime in the future. I agree with Tjazz about the Desert Rose Band but it seems just as they were taking their music to another level they broke up. David Crosby gets dissed a lot I know took some shots at him but in all due fairness to David, Roger McGuinn also comes across as a dipshit.

[ghost of miles]

Been listening to FIFTH DIMENSION today (I'm sitting in as host of a morning pop/rock show tomorrow & really itching to play a couple of tracks off it--"I See You" and "What's Happening"). "Mr. Tambourine Man" is what hooked me as a kid, but this album is what made me a trueblue fan.

Guy, you're right about "CTA 102"--that song is a big blemish on YOUNGER THAN YESTERDAY to me, wish they'd junked it, just too goofy.

Here are a couple of websites:

byrdwatcher

Byrds

Did Johnny Rogan's bio, TIMELESS FLIGHT, ever come out? And, last but not least, any other fans here of Husker Du's cover of "Eight Miles High"? I still have the 45 and saw 'em do it live once--wow!

Edited March 18, 2004 by ghost of miles

[AfricaBrass]

Ghost, Timeless Flight has been out for years. I've had my copy for a long time.

I LOVE the Byrds.

I dig the early stuff and the country stuff. I think that band has had more influence on me than any other.

They got me into jazz with "Eight Miles High". I read Crosby's biography years ago, and his stories about listening to Coltrane made me buy my first jazz album, Africa Brass.

They helped me develop a love of country and bluegrass by mixing them into their YOUNGER THAN YESTERDAY and NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS albums.

SWEETHEART OF THE RODEO was my first real country record. I now am a HUGE country fan.

The later Clarence White era has been a large influence on my guitar playing. I'm having a Parsons B-string bender Telecaster built right now. For years, my main guitar was a Rickenbacker 12-string. I was really into the McGuinn thing.

I'll admit the early incarnation wasn't a very good live band. This opinion comes from the boots I have heard, but I believe they were a great live group when Clarence White was in the band. I love the LIVE AT FILLMORE cd that was released a couple years ago. White is playing circles around everyone.

I think I have recordings of every offshoot of the group. The GENE CLARK WITH THE GOSDIN BROTHERS has long been a favorite.

I better stop, I could gush all day about the Byrds.

[AfricaBrass]

Clem, I haven't seen that Hopper film, but I'd love to find of copy of his "The Last Movie", I saw it once and I really dug the music in it. I can't believe you remember the Wynn Stewart discussion. Yeah, I dig all that Bakersfield and SoCal country stuff. That's pretty much my biggest influence in my own guitar pickin'. I recently got the Gosdin Brothers SOUNDS OF GOODBYE cd. It's pretty cool, but I dig Clark's cd more.

I've got almost all of Gene Clark's records/cds, and I have to day my absolute favorite is the first Dillard and Clark album, THE FANTASTIC EXPEDITION, fortunately I got it as a twofer cd on Mobile Fidelty coupled with their second album.

Like Brandon, I've also been checking out Teenage Fanclub again. I think their recent sampler disc is a nice way to hear them. The track "I Need Direction" off their HOWDY! album is my favorite.

I agree about McGuinn, I think he really peaked with THE NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS (which is my FAVORITE Byrds album).

I went through a huge Crosby phase when I was in my late teens / early twenties. I agree with Bev about Cros' great chords. "Everybody's Been Burned" is my favorite Byrds track. As a person, he kind of bugs me. I was watching the Monterey Pop Festival DVDs recently and I don't blame McGuinn and Hillman for firing him. He really made an ass of himself IMO. The whole ego trip of CSN kind of wore on me, but I still dig the music.

[GregK]

I just finished my Byrds collection by picking up Dr Byrds and Mr Hyde (very underrated! Great album), Younger than Yesterday (who let Crosby do Mind Gardens??? wow!! Or CTA, what were they thinking?) and 5D. I have some good listening ahead of me this weekend as I reacquaint myself with all of this music. I have them all in that ltd edition box that came out 4 years ago and I intend to work my way through all of their albums, beginning to end. I still hold Easy Rider as my favorite, with Untitled next. We'll see if that changes after listening to the whole catalog in sequence!

[Big Al]

Never cared for "Mind Gardens," but after Bev put it in that context, it makes sense now. As I said before, I'm glad the reissue has (as a hidden track) the instrumental track of "Mind Gardens." Now THAT'S some nice pickin'!