John Coltrane - Blue World

[Teasing the Korean]

16 minutes ago, erwbol said:

 I'm sorry to hear you won't be getting Blue World.

Thanks.  I'll get by.

[EKE BBB]

33 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I'm glad that you are glad.  I don't need another album or CD with a boring photo of the artist.  

I can live with either. Provided that I can enjoy the music within, which I am pretty sure I will!

[Daniel A]

44 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

I'm glad that you are glad.  I don't need another album or CD with a boring photo of the artist.  

But remember how small CD:s are. You'll hardly notice. 

[jazzbo]

2 hours ago, Teasing the Korean said:

This should have been the album cover:

https://www.listal.com/viewimage/7651708

Or this:

https://www.listal.com/viewimage/17185133

 

But this is not the soundtrack album to the film, as it does not include the other material and contains more Coltrane than the film does. I think selling it as a Coltrane album makes much more business sense as well.

2 hours ago, medjuck said:

They wouldn't need a stereo tape for a film in 1964 so they may not have made one. 

And additionally there's no empirical reason Impulse! would have this tape to lose.

Edited August 17, 2019 by jazzbo

[Teasing the Korean]

47 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

But this is not the soundtrack album to the film, as it does not include the other material and contains more Coltrane than the film does. I think selling it as a Coltrane album makes much more business sense as well.

Your comment suggests that you are not very familiar with film score albums or how they are assembled, and that is fine.  No on is suggesting not crediting Coltrane on the album cover.

[jazzbo]

My comment shows I don't consider this a "soundtrack album". . . that's all. A soundtrack album to my thinking should have music included on the film, this omits much of that, really has only a little to do with the film when viewed as a recorded session to be released for the first time. 

Regardless, were I Universal and had a chance of marketing a disc of a recording session of music that was partially included in an obscure Canadian independent film as the "soundtrack album" to that film, or as newly remastered and released material from the John Coltrane Quartet, there is no way I would choose the former, especially as my last similar project sold very well.

Edited August 17, 2019 by jazzbo

[Daniel A]

I'd hate to see this topic turn into a discussion whether TTK:s reason for not wanting to own the album is valid or not. 

However, as the owner of many soundtrack albums I have to say that the concept of this album does not much seem to relate to the movie. The cover seems consistent with the idea of a "lost" Coltrane album. 

[Teasing the Korean]

23 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

My comment shows I don't consider this a "soundtrack album". . . that's all. A soundtrack album to my thinking should have music included on the film, this omits much of that, really has only a little to do with the film when viewed as a recorded session to be released for the first time. 

Respectfully, this suggests that you may not be very familiar with film score albums or how they are assembled, and, again, that is fine. I am not being critical of you. But those of us who love both jazz and film scores may feel differently.

23 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

Regardless, were I Universal and had a chance of marketing a disc of a recording session of music that was partially included in an obscure Canadian independent film as the "soundtrack album" to that film, or as a newly remastered and released material from the John Coltrane Quartet, there is no way I would choose the former, especially as my last similar project sold very well.

It is not a case of either/or.  It could be marketed as both.

At any rate, others here have expressed disappointment in the song selection, multiple alternate takes, the running time, and the mono audio.  I take issue with the packaging.  It looks like several of us are disappointed for a variety of reasons.  

Edited August 17, 2019 by Teasing the Korean

[erwbol]

We all have shelves full of 35 min. albums. I think your objection is more reasonable.

[Teasing the Korean]

17 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I'd hate to see this topic turn into a discussion whether TTK:s reason for not wanting to own the album is valid or not. 

Some reasons are more valid than others, I suppose.  I get that some people are just all about the music and not concerned about things such as packaging, presentation, and graphic design.  And that's OK. 

I was similarly disappointed in the Monk soundtrack from a few years ago, but at least I already had the Art Blakey and Duke Jordan albums, which contained appropriate cover art.  

Edited August 17, 2019 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

You'd think they could at least throw in a voucher for a box of popcorn or some Junior Mints, do that cross-marketing thing to expand the size of the jazz market, you know.

[Teasing the Korean]

3 minutes ago, erwbol said:

We all have shelves full of 35 min. albums. I think your objection is more reasonable.

In the era of stereo LPs, 35 minutes was pretty standard.  Records began to lose fidelity if a side went over 18 minutes.  

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You'd think they could at least throw in a voucher for a box of popcorn or some Junior Mints, do that cross-marketing thing to expand the size of the jazz market, you know.

Oh, come on, that's kid stuff.  I order cocktails at the movies.

[erwbol]

4 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Some reasons are more valid than others, I suppose.  I get that some people are just all about the music and not concerned about things such as packaging, presentation, and graphic design.  And that's OK. 

Japanese production values is what made me buy the SHM-CD.

[jazzbo]

29 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Respectfully, this suggests that you may not be very familiar with film score albums or how they are assembled, and, again, that is fine. I am not being critical of you. But those of us who love both jazz and film scores may feel differently.

It is not a case of either/or.  It could be marketed as both.

 

I am familiar enough to know that a) in the current climate of cd production it won't be "marketed as both" by this label, and that b) this is far less a sound track album than it is a Coltrane session and marketing and covering it as such is a far more profitable proposition.

And that is what the label decided to do. Buy it or not as you see fit. I'm looking forward to it. 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

12 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Oh, come on, that's kid stuff.  I order cocktails at the movies.

Yeah, you young people take that kind of thing for granted. In my day, the only way you got alcohol at a cinema was if it was a prono house.

On a less serous note, though, I  wonder what they used for the Vivaldi and Couperin. Think they just hired some local cats to go in and do a read-down? That''s essentially how they handled it with Coltrane, it looks like, here''s a few bucks, get a studio and give us some tunes we can use.

Seems like they were working with that kind of budget/esthetic.

[Teasing the Korean]

35 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yeah, you young people take that kind of thing for granted. In my day, the only way you got alcohol at a cinema was if it was a prono house.

On a less serous note, though, I  wonder what they used for the Vivaldi and Couperin. Think they just hired some local cats to go in and do a read-down? That''s essentially how they handled it with Coltrane, it looks like, here''s a few bucks, get a studio and give us some tunes we can use.

Seems like they were working with that kind of budget/esthetic.

I'm planning on watching the film on YouTube and see what I can find.

Pretty soon, a version of the soundtrack with Coltrane, Vivaldi, and Couperin will start making the rounds.  I'm not condoning this kind of behavior, but it happens. 

41 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I am familiar enough to know that a) in the current climate of cd production it won't be "marketed as both" by this label, and that b) this is far less a sound track album than it is a Coltrane session and marketing and covering it as such is a far more profitable proposition.

And that is what the label decided to do. Buy it or not as you see fit. I'm looking forward to it. 

 And I fully support your right as a consumer in a capitalist society to do just this!  

And considering my family knows that I am both jazz lover and film score fanatic, this will probably end up under the tree this Christmas.  I say "under the tree" figuratively, as I do a huge HO train layout under the tree each Christmas. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Teasing the Korean

[Shrdlu]

Movies had stereo sound long before 1964, so I assume that this Trane session was recorded by Rudy in stereo. It is doubtful that only a mono recording was made.

It is annoying that Universal is issuing their unissued Trane material so painfully slowly. We know that there is more (e.g. from the Johnny Hartman session). How long until the tapes are iron oxide dust and plastic ribbon?

[Teasing the Korean]

9 minutes ago, Shrdlu said:

How long until the tapes are iron oxide dust and plastic ribbon?

Or ashes in 2008, more likely. 

[jazzbo]

14 minutes ago, Shrdlu said:

Movies had stereo sound long before 1964, so I assume that this Trane session was recorded by Rudy in stereo. It is doubtful that only a mono recording was made.

It is annoying that Universal is issuing their unissued Trane material so painfully slowly. We know that there is more (e.g. from the Johnny Hartman session). How long until the tapes are iron oxide dust and plastic ribbon?

Elsewhere it is said that this tape actually came from the filmmakers. Would seem likely that they had "masters" and that it was indeed recorded in mono. Mono was still prevalent in film playback then, and I bet RVG enjoyed producing a mono master. 

[Rooster_Ties]

Do we know Rudy recorded this session? I've forgotten whether that was stated as a matter of fact, or an assumption.

Probably was Rudy, I realize, but do we know?

[jazzbo]

8 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Do we know Rudy recorded this session? I've forgotten whether that was stated as a matter of fact, or an assumption.

Probably was Rudy, I realize, but do we know?

Yes, the articles linked to in this thread mention that it was recorded by RVG.

[felser]

10 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Do we know Rudy recorded this session? I've forgotten whether that was stated as a matter of fact, or an assumption.

Probably was Rudy, I realize, but do we know?

From theseconddisc.com

NEWS

Traneing In: Never-Before-Released John Coltrane Tapes Set To Arrive on “Blue World”

AUGUST 21, 2019 BY SAM STONE 1 COMMENT

Jazz aficionados worldwide have good reason to celebrate with the news of a new John Coltrane album that features lost performances from 1964! The album arrives on September 27 through Verve/Impulse! and is entitled Blue World. The 8-song collection features Coltrane's "Classic Quartet" as recorded in a newly unearthed session at Rudy Van Gelder's studio in June of that year. The sessions that make up Blue World were commissioned by Quebecois filmmaker Gille Groulx, a rabid Coltrane fan

[mikeweil]

Weren't the reference tape copies RVG made for Coltrane always mono?

What RVG said about mono vs. stereo mixes in his notes for the SACD reissue of the session with Hartman stopped me shedding tears about lost stereo mixes. Lots of hype about stereo, IMHO.

[medjuck]

2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Elsewhere it is said that this tape actually came from the filmmakers. Would seem likely that they had "masters" and that it was indeed recorded in mono. Mono was still prevalent in film playback then, and I bet RVG enjoyed producing a mono master. 

3 hours ago, Shrdlu said:

Movies had stereo sound long before 1964, so I assume that this Trane session was recorded by Rudy in stereo. It is doubtful that only a mono recording was made.

 

They wouldn't need a stereo tape for a film in 1964 so they may not have made one.    Very few movies were in stereo in 1964- in fact I doubt if any Canadian films were. Even in the US, Columbia released Stripes in 1981 in mono only.  We  had to do a new stereo mix for later video releases. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by medjuck

[Rooster_Ties]

On 8/16/2019 at 0:33 PM, medjuck said:

Are there any other recordings of this quartet playing Naima?

Good question.  Anyone know?