Resonance to release pre-Capitol Nat King Cole box set

[AllenLowe]

I happen to know Zev Feldman very well and he is not only ethical to a fault, but one of the nicest people on the planet. Maybe they have Organissimo blocked.

On 7/23/2019 at 8:02 PM, Captain Howdy said:

So is a cassette I taped of a LP I borrowed from the library. 

But notice that he doesn't say those are new transfers directly from transcription discs and 78s: he says "Dozens of these tracks are in brand-new transfers." The rest--the majority--come from tapes that were made who knows when: "everything here stems from a disk of some sort or other, and at some point has been transferred (either to analog tape or to digital) from an original disk source." I don't know if he was intentionally trying to pull a verbal sleight of hand but that's the effect: he suggests that everything comes from a disk, but what he's really saying is that everything comes from tape.

this is why they won't respond. Jeez. Basically calling them liars from the get go, without any real info.

Edited July 27, 2019 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Not calling anybody a liar that I'm can see. Just wanting clarification of a, certainly unintentionally, rather silly statement.

Maybe Cuscuna (and Nessa) have raised the bar for a label''s transparency and customer communication to an unsustainable height. Oh well, expectations in that regard now lowered, at least for Resonance. This Modern World, etc.

[AllenLowe]

wasn't you, it was "I don't know if he was intentionally trying to pull a verbal sleight of hand but that's the effect." Veiled, but still an accusation.

[JSngry]

Eye of the beholder, but that didn't strike me as an accusation as much as it did a "seriously????"

A healthy scepticism, imo. To the best of my knowlefge, the is the first Resonance package to deal with pre-tape material, and especially, in the case of the Decca sides, stuff owned by what's left of "the majors".

To my knowledge, the company has no track record of doing this type of project, and it's only natural that a geek audience of people like us want to ask geek questions, and hope to get sufficiently geeky answers.

Nobody's asking people to name who or where they got it, but WHAT they got, WHAT they had to work with seems a reasonable enough question. And an answer that essentially says, gawrsh, it's all needle drops...nothing dishonest at all there, just seems a bit...naive, that's  all.

There's more to the "Mosaic standard" than just the product and the packaging. There's also been the geek factor, the awareness that at least some of your customer base respects/loves you for giving them the geek shit about how you went looking for this and it wasn't there but you dug around and found it over yonder in some box as a backup for the janitor, but wow, the janitor had a whole different take than the one you were looking for, but he had a mint 45 of that one, or some crazy shit like that. Mosaic will tell you shit like that, and they will do it without being asked.

But maybe that's just them, Mosaic, Cuscuna. I like it myself.

[Dave Garrett]

7 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I happen to know Zev Feldman very well and he is not only ethical to a fault, but one of the nicest people on the planet. Maybe they have Organissimo blocked.

this is why they won't respond. Jeez. Basically calling them liars from the get go, without any real info.

I don't know Zev Feldman, but I read the comments in question the same way (modulo the usual disclaimer about intent often being hard to gauge on the internet in the absence of visual cues) - maybe not calling them liars directly, but certainly implying intent to deceive or obfuscate. 

I certainly understand a healthy skepticism about new releases, but the team involved with this one had immediate credibility with me, having read and respected their contributions for years at the Hoffman forum. Jordan's probably forgotten more about Cole than I'll ever know, and Matt's done some pretty exceptional work documenting the variances in sound quality within the Sinatra and (to a lesser extent) Cole catalogs:

http://11fifty.com/Site_108/Welcome_Sinatra_Cole.html

IMO, they've earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt. Your mileage, as the old saying goes, may vary.

[jazzbo]

I read it antagonistically as well. And neither of the contributors are regulars here and may not have seen the questions. I've asked about the Decca material at Hoffman's and will post here any responses.

[JSngry]

2 minutes ago, Dave Garrett said:

I don't know Zev Feldman, but I read the comments in question the same way (modulo the usual disclaimer about intent often being hard to gauge on the internet in the absence of visual cues) - maybe not calling them liars directly, but certainly implying intent to deceive or obfuscate. 

I certainly understand a healthy skepticism about new releases, but the team involved with this one had immediate credibility with me, having read and respected their contributions for years at the Hoffman forum. Jordan's probably forgotten more about Cole than I'll ever know, and Matt's done some pretty exceptional work documenting the variances in sound quality within the Sinatra and (to a lesser extent) Cole catalogs:

http://11fifty.com/Site_108/Welcome_Sinatra_Cole.html

IMO, they've earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt. Your mileage, as the old saying goes, may vary.

Stipulated (except for the part about participation in Hoffman Land conferring credibilty...that place... experts and bullshitters rub shoulders and other body parts and nobody dares tell the difference )  Apart from that, all good.

All I want to know is what they had to work with on the Decca stuff. And yes, I've emailed them directly. No answer yet. Maybe I should Go Hoffman and ask there to legitimize the question.

[Dave Garrett]

4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Stipulated (except for the part about participation in Hoffman Land conferring credibilty...that place... experts and bullshitters rub shoulders and other body parts and nobody dares tell the difference )  Apart from that, all good.

All I want to know is what they had to work with on the Decca stuff. And yes, I've emailed them directly. No answer yet. Maybe I should Go Hoffman and ask there to legitimize the question.

Oh, no doubt there's a *lot* of bullshit of various flavors on view over at Hoffman, but there's also enough of merit there that I continue to find it a worthwhile exercise to sift through the chaff in search of the wheat. 

Your question about the Decca sources is fair. I'm sure the details will surface given a little time - the set was just announced, after all. 

[JSngry]

27 minutes ago, Dave Garrett said:

Your question about the Decca sources is fair. I'm sure the details will surface given a little time - the set was just announced, after all. 

So they've also just found out what their  sources are going to be? 

 

[jazzbo]

Okay, an answer from the engineer for this set from the Hoffman board:

Those Decca holdings were donated by MCA to the Library of Congress several years ago -- 1998, I think, but don't quote me -- and the infamous Universal fire that everybody is so atwitter about had zero impact on our set. Metal parts have been largely non-existent since the 1950s, but seven songs have surviving metal parts today, and we used existing digital transfers for six of them, and existing analog transfers (of metal parts that no longer exist) for several others. We avoided transferring from 78s unless there was absolutely nothing else available, such as for the single version of Sweet Lorraine.  I think this is the best the Decca tracks have ever sounded, but I am admittedly both biased and maybe a little "too close to the project" to feel otherwise.

The tracks are all speed/pitch-corrected, which may be a little jarring to those who are used to hearing them off-speed, as they have appeared on many past releases.

[JSngry]

Thank you for that   

"Atwitter", eh? 

[JSngry]

Oh, I would definitely recommend that they use Mosaic as a model.

Mosaic - and they're not going out of business, they just act like they are, I  think - would always talk to their customers, and always give straight answers, even if it was uncomfortable to do so. OG customers remember how long that first set of releases took to for real come out - long after our checks had been cashed. They owned it and asked for trust. Well, they earned it.

Resonance can do business as they see fit, of course, but maybe the fact that the warehouse fire that has everybody all "atwitter" (wow...) had no impact on their sourcing of the Decca material...ya' think that might be a major selling point? And pitch correction? A big deal, maybe? Talk about burying the lede...

It's good to know that it matters to them. It would be nice to know that it matters to them that it matters to us, that not everybody will settle for that Jodi Puhols thing because we all hongry dogs sloppin' at the shit bowl.

Unless we are, in which case, we fuck ourselves.

 

[jazzbo]

Oh boy. 

 

[JSngry]

The big MCA/LOC deal was in 2011, btw

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/arts/music/10masters.html 

[jazzbo]

https://www.thevinyldistrict.com/storefront/2019/10/graded-on-a-curve-nat-king-cole-hittin-the-ramp-the-early-years-1936-1943/

 

[Brad]

2 hours ago, jazzbo said:

https://www.thevinyldistrict.com/storefront/2019/10/graded-on-a-curve-nat-king-cole-hittin-the-ramp-the-early-years-1936-1943/

 

[jazzbo]

Pretty comprehensive review:

https://artmusiclounge.wordpress.com/2019/10/04/early-nat-cole-hittin-the-ramp/

[king ubu]

On 29.10.2019 at 11:38 PM, jazzbo said:

Pretty comprehensive review:

https://artmusiclounge.wordpress.com/2019/10/04/early-nat-cole-hittin-the-ramp/

Thanks! Ordered mine now ... this is going to be quite a ride, it seems!

[jazzbo]

I'm slowly listening through it. Very good set!

[medjuck]

Could someone point out for me (a layman) examples of Oscar Moore employing flatted Fifths? 

[medjuck]

23 hours ago, medjuck said:

Could someone point out for me (a layman) examples of Oscar Moore employing flatted Fifths? 

Upping this because IO'm still curious and can't find anything on Google. Could someone point out for me (a layman) examples of Oscar Moore employing flatted Fifths? 

[medjuck]

I'm really enjoying this-- though there are too many "novelty" pieces on the first disc for me.  It gets better and better as it goes along.    The sides with Dexter Gordon are his first as a leader and I'm struck by how Lestorian he is here. 

[jazzbo]

Very little of this is new to me. What is new is how wonderful the mastering is here. Makes many other releases sound dull or even muffled.

[ghost of miles]

On 11/13/2019 at 0:40 PM, jazzbo said:

Very little of this is new to me. What is new is how wonderful the mastering is here. Makes many other releases sound dull or even muffled.

Same here. Listening through the set for a second time, and it’s giving me a renewed appreciation for this early era of NKC.

[ejp626]

On 2019-07-19 at 3:13 PM, Brad said:

I can’t seeing buying a set that contains 7 CDs worth of his music. I’m just not that much of a fan of NKC. Perhaps if they eventually do one of their best of CDs, I’d go for that. However, to those who are big fans, I’m sure you will be very happy. 

Very late to this discussion, but haven't seen this mentioned in the thread. 

On iTunes (and possibly a physical release), there is Straighten Up and Fly Right (Best of Hittin' the Ramp) and Plays the Best of Hollywood, Broadway and the Great American Songbook which is also drawn from Hittin' the Ramp.