BFT 181 link and discussion

[Hot Ptah]

Track 2. I have this album. It is from the "Indian Summer" album by Dave Brubeck. It is the opening track on the album, "You'll Never Know."

I saw Dave Brubeck live four times in the last decade of his life. I was struck by how good he was, and how evocative his playing was. The cliches about him pounding clumsily on the piano did not fit. So I bought several of his later albums, including this one.

Track 6.  I heard Anthony Braxton play two different solo alto saxophone concerts very much in the style of this recording.

One was at Milwaukee's Jazz Gallery in the summer of 1980. At times during that concert, he sounded more like Johnny Hodges than anyone else I have heard.

In September, 1980, I heard him again, in a solo alto saxophone performance much like this track. It was a Saturday afternoon set at the 1980 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival. (The rest of the 1980 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival: Stephane Grappelli and Oregon on Friday night, Chico Freeman and Stanley Turrentine on Saturday night, Arthur Blythe (with John Hicks, Fred Hopkins and Steve McCall) and Sarah Vaughan on Sunday night.
 

.

[JSngry]

Brubeck, that makes sense. Whatever else he was or wasn't, he was never clumsy. That's something he had in common with Monk. His time was always rock-solid. Even when he "pounded", it was rock-solid. And when he did his polyrhythms, it was especially rock-solid, it had to be.

That album, is it all solo?

 

[Milestones]

I'm learning some things here.  I don't know anything about Eddie Costa.  I have heard the name, but that's about it.  

I had not known that Elvin recorded with Yusef Lateef.

 

 

[jeffcrom]

2 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track 2. I have this album. It is from the "Indian Summer" album by Dave Brubeck. It is the opening track on the album, "You'll Never Know."

I saw Dave Brubeck live four times in the last decade of his life. I was struck by how good he was, and how evocative his playing was. The cliches about him pounding clumsily on the piano did not fit. So I bought several of his later albums, including this one.

Track 6.  I heard Anthony Braxton play two different solo alto saxophone concerts very much in the style of this recording.

One was at Milwaukee's Jazz Gallery in the summer of 1980. At times during that concert, he sounded more like Johnny Hodges than anyone else I have heard.

In September, 1980, I heard him again, in a solo alto saxophone performance much like this track. It was a Saturday afternoon set at the 1980 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival. (The rest of the 1980 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival: Stephane Grappelli and Oregon on Friday night, Chico Freeman and Stanley Turrentine on Saturday night, Arthur Blythe (with John Hicks, Fred Hopkins and Steve McCall) and Sarah Vaughan on Sunday night.
 

Correct on track 2. I don't think the Indian Summer album is a masterpiece or anything like that, but it's one I always enjoy when I play it. The slightly melancholy, bittersweet flavor is consistent through the album, which was his final studio recording, I believe. It feels like a valedictory look back on his life.

The last time I saw Braxton play solo was a couple of years ago, when he was artist-in-residence for a couple of weeks at the University of Alabama. I judged the audience at his opening solo concert to be 1/3 excited Braxton fans, 1/3 curious music lovers, and 1/3 music students trying to fulfill their concert attendance requirements. I wondered how the last two groups would respond to the concert, but Braxton's programming was masterful. He started with a lyrical ballad like this, then moved on to a fast, technically impressive virtuoso piece. After those two selections, the audience was with him, and stayed with him when he started playing abrasive multiphonics and such.

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Brubeck, that makes sense. Whatever else he was or wasn't, he was never clumsy. That's something he had in common with Monk. His time was always rock-solid. Even when he "pounded", it was rock-solid. And when he did his polyrhythms, it was especially rock-solid, it had to be.

That album, is it all solo?

 

Yes - all solo readings of standards.

Edited April 5, 2019 by jeffcrom

[medjuck]

On 4/1/2019 at 11:27 AM, medjuck said:

Haven't listened to all of it yet but really like what I have heard.  (I was listening while working out at the Y this morning.  Great exercise music.)    Only one I've id'd is number 7 (which was pretty easy). Metronome al stars and they really were all stars-- Basie, Bean, Christian, Carter, Goodman etc.  I think Bean's solo was one he later turned into a song.  One Step Down maybe?  

Actually it became Feed'n the Bean which Hawkins recorded with the Basie band later that year. Then even later it became The Bean Stalks Again in The Hawk in HiFi.  (Where Bean and the Boys became 39"-25"-39"

7 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track 2. I have this album. It is from the "Indian Summer" album by Dave Brubeck. It is the opening track on the album, "You'll Never Know."

I saw Dave Brubeck live four times in the last decade of his life. I was struck by how good he was, and how evocative his playing was. The cliches about him pounding clumsily on the piano did not fit. So I bought several of his later albums, including this one.

 

.

I had much the same experience seeing him shortly before he died.  I wouldn't have recognized him by his playing. (Though he did of course play Take Five.)

Edited April 6, 2019 by medjuck
research

[jeffcrom]

One more week to go, if anyone else is interested.

[lipi]

Getting it in under the wire!

1. Some boppish thing. The pianist actually reminds me of Tatum, but I don't think it is him. I dunno. Have three stars for trying, guys.

3. OK. This isn't going to surprise anyone, but I am convinced this is a band tuning up, and they switched instruments for the occasion. Less facetiously: can someone explain this to me? What is interesting or pleasing about this? I'm genuinely curious (though probably not curious enough to play it again). (For the record, I also detest Rothko and Pollock.) Negative infinity stars.

4. That's more like it! The New Orleans Feetwarmers, early 30s. Bechet, Ladnier, Morland, and some guys I can't think of right now. Love. Five stars.

6. Someone playing an alto (I think). It sounds classical in a way. More Benny Goodman playing Mozart than Julian Bliss playing Ellington. Oddly curious about this, though it's also not really my thing (I'm sure you're simply shocked, shocked to find out there's gambling going on in here).

7. Big Sid? Oh! Basie! And Buddy Rich, not Big Sid (oops...an odd mistake to make). "All-Star Jump" I think they titled it. OOJ by the Metronome All-Stars in...1942? 1941? Early 1940s. Who the hell is on here? Ah, here's Christian. Higginbottham, I think, and Dorsey is also in there. Hawk. Cootie Williams. Benny Carter, I think? Harry James (is it my imagination or does he sound "dirtier" (in a good way) here? Cootie influence?).  Goodman. There were some other big names in there, but they're lost in the mix. I think Toots Mondello and Tex Beneke were on there, no?

This is one of those "WTF did you only record two sides?!" sessions. Once you have all these guys in one room just toss in some sandwiches, lock the door, and roll all the tape you've got! (OK, so they didn't have tape... Still.)

Fifty stars.

8. OK. I don't like this, but at least I sorta get it. A star is all you get, fellas. I spent all the others on the last track.

9. I like this! What is it? Bebop meets early R&B?! And that hook is SO familiar—I can't place it, but it sounds like a NT Basie riff. When was this recorded? That guitar sounds awfully modern at times. It's all over the place. Late 50's, maybe? Three stars plus one for that riff!

10. Uh-oh. This I should recognize, I suspect. Mid 1920s, jug, beautiful clarinet... I don't know! Dodds, maybe...? I suspect this wasn't everyone's favourite. Two plus one for the clarinetist, and, hey, let's throw in another half for the jug—you don't hear enough jugs these days, you know?

12. I like this. I know nothing about this stuff, but it's fun. The singer's inflection borders on Joe Cocker's at times, but this guy's voice doesn't sound like he spent four years screaming into the wind while gargling sulphuric acid and smoking six of those cartoon exploding cigars at once. Four stars for what it is.

[jeffcrom]

12 hours ago, lipi said:

Getting it in under the wire!

1. Some boppish thing. The pianist actually reminds me of Tatum, but I don't think it is him. I dunno. Have three stars for trying, guys.

Not Tatum, but the pianist was an admirer of Mr. Tatum.

3. OK. This isn't going to surprise anyone, but I am convinced this is a band tuning up, and they switched instruments for the occasion. Less facetiously: can someone explain this to me? What is interesting or pleasing about this? I'm genuinely curious (though probably not curious enough to play it again). (For the record, I also detest Rothko and Pollock.) Negative infinity stars.

When I set up this blindfold test, I almost put in a warning: "Lipi, do not listen to track 3."

4. That's more like it! The New Orleans Feetwarmers, early 30s. Bechet, Ladnier, Morland, and some guys I can't think of right now. Love. Five stars.

6. Someone playing an alto (I think). It sounds classical in a way. More Benny Goodman playing Mozart than Julian Bliss playing Ellington. Oddly curious about this, though it's also not really my thing (I'm sure you're simply shocked, shocked to find out there's gambling going on in here).

You're not the first person to say that this almost sounds "classical."

7. Big Sid? Oh! Basie! And Buddy Rich, not Big Sid (oops...an odd mistake to make). "All-Star Jump" I think they titled it. OOJ by the Metronome All-Stars in...1942? 1941? Early 1940s. Who the hell is on here? Ah, here's Christian. Higginbottham, I think, and Dorsey is also in there. Hawk. Cootie Williams. Benny Carter, I think? Harry James (is it my imagination or does he sound "dirtier" (in a good way) here? Cootie influence?).  Goodman. There were some other big names in there, but they're lost in the mix. I think Toots Mondello and Tex Beneke were on there, no?

This is one of those "WTF did you only record two sides?!" sessions. Once you have all these guys in one room just toss in some sandwiches, lock the door, and roll all the tape you've got! (OK, so they didn't have tape... Still.)

Fifty stars.

Glad you liked this. Yeah, the Metronome All Star bands were usually pretty good.

8. OK. I don't like this, but at least I sorta get it. A star is all you get, fellas. I spent all the others on the last track.

9. I like this! What is it? Bebop meets early R&B?! And that hook is SO familiar—I can't place it, but it sounds like a NT Basie riff. When was this recorded? That guitar sounds awfully modern at times. It's all over the place. Late 50's, maybe? Three stars plus one for that riff!

As I said before, this is the most obscure item here. I don't think that it's been reissued, so when this BFT is over I'll put this (and the flip side) somewhere where folks can download it.

10. Uh-oh. This I should recognize, I suspect. Mid 1920s, jug, beautiful clarinet... I don't know! Dodds, maybe...? I suspect this wasn't everyone's favourite. Two plus one for the clarinetist, and, hey, let's throw in another half for the jug—you don't hear enough jugs these days, you know?

You get a point for the clarinetist - Johnny Dodds indeed.

12. I like this. I know nothing about this stuff, but it's fun. The singer's inflection borders on Joe Cocker's at times, but this guy's voice doesn't sound like he spent four years screaming into the wind while gargling sulphuric acid and smoking six of those cartoon exploding cigars at once. Four stars for what it is.

 

[tkeith]

Apologies -- meant to get to this on stacation last week, but just didn't have time.

A lot here I have no clue on, but all worth a listen.  Can't explain the weird formatting -- chromebook copies the background from the Sticky Note program and fouls up the formatting.  

Track 01 - Tenor Madness, but by the sounds, predating that title. An older bari who plays exactly the style I do not like on the instrument. First trumpeter lacks the facility for the range in which he is playing, to my ear. Second presents a more thoughtful statement. No clue on the rhythm section. Not sure on the alto. Maybe VERY early Sonny Criss. Big, bruising tenor that I cannot identify.

Track 02 - No idea, no guesses.

Track 03 - Early on I thought I heard shades of Rob Brown in the alto, but it's not him. They were listening, I'll say that.

Track 04 - Not a style I listen to much, though it's in the collection. This cooks. Could be Bechet.

Track 05 - Yusef. Not sure what the recording is, but that's gotta be the big man.

Track 06 - No idea. Someone I'm not familiar with. Seems like a more classically oriented Noah Howard.

Track 07 - Very much in the KC style but no realistic guess as to the leader. My mind hears Basie, but I know I'm wrong.

Track 08 - Afro Blue. Has the air of an Allman Brothers show. No idea who it is.

Track 09 - No idea. Growly, bluesy alto.

Track 10 - No idea.

Track 11 - Good ol' church Jazz. Me likey. In the style of Phineas, but not him. Snappy drums, but the piano doesn't maintain interest as it goes on.

Track 12 - One way out, couldn't fathom who by. A fun ride.

Edited April 30, 2019 by tkeith

[jeffcrom]

4 hours ago, tkeith said:

Apologies -- meant to get to this on stacation last week, but just didn't have time.

A lot here I have no clue on, but all worth a listen.  Can't explain the weird formatting -- chromebook copies the background from the Sticky Note program and fouls up the formatting.  

Track 01 - Tenor Madness, but by the sounds, predating that title. An older bari who plays exactly the style I do not like on the instrument. First trumpeter lacks the facility for the range in which he is playing, to my ear. Second presents a more thoughtful statement. No clue on the rhythm section. Not sure on the alto. Maybe VERY early Sonny Criss. Big, bruising tenor that I cannot identify.

Yes, this predates the Rollins recording. Interesting comments about the trumpet players - can't say that you're wrong.

Track 02 - No idea, no guesses.

Track 03 - Early on I thought I heard shades of Rob Brown in the alto, but it's not him. They were listening, I'll say that.

Not Brown, as you said. I like your comment about the musicians listening in light of Lipi's comments about this track above.

 

Track 04 - Not a style I listen to much, though it's in the collection. This cooks. Could be Bechet.

Bechet indeed. I seem to be in the minority here in enjoying early jazz as much as bebop as much as avant-garde. 

 

Track 05 - Yusef. Not sure what the recording is, but that's gotta be the big man.

Good ear - it is indeed Mr. Lateef.

 

Track 06 - No idea. Someone I'm not familiar with. Seems like a more classically oriented Noah Howard.

Oh, you're familiar with him. This is just a slightly unusual performance for him.

 

Track 07 - Very much in the KC style but no realistic guess as to the leader. My mind hears Basie, but I know I'm wrong.

Basie is at the keys, and there is no leader - this has been ID'ed as the Metronome All Star Band.

 

Track 08 - Afro Blue. Has the air of an Allman Brothers show. No idea who it is.

Yes - Allmans plus guest drummer, whom no one has identified yet.

 

Track 09 - No idea. Growly, bluesy alto.

Very obscure performance, and the alto player is well-respected on these forums.

 

Track 10 - No idea.

Track 11 - Good ol' church Jazz. Me likey. In the style of Phineas, but not him. Snappy drums, but the piano doesn't maintain interest as it goes on.

ID'ed as Eddie Costa, from House of Blue Lights.

 

Track 12 - One way out, couldn't fathom who by. A fun ride.

The singer has been ID'ed as the writer of this fine blues song, Sonny Boy Williamson, with an interesting band of English musicians.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

I have been asked by Hot Ptah, the BFT administrator, to extend my test a few days. The May test will be slightly delayed, apparently. I will post the details about my selections on Friday, May 3.

[JSngry]

So is 6 Braxton or Noah Howard?

[tkeith]

Well, shoot!  I wanted to guess Bean on Track 1, but it seemed like an easy out guess.  I was thinking Elvin with Yusef, but it just didn't make any sense to me.  That's what I get for playing it cautious.

[jeffcrom]

43 minutes ago, JSngry said:

So is 6 Braxton or Noah Howard?

It's Braxton. Sorry if my response was confusing.

[lipi]

Serendipity struck on number 10!

In an attempt to solve the mystery, I went to pull a Dodds CD and this whole weird "alphabetization" thing that's all the rage these days put the correct CD right in front of my nose: Dixieland Jug Blowers. I had to listen to the CD to find the right tune: "Memphis Shake", recorded in Chicago in 1926.

Thank you for reminding me of these guys.

[jeffcrom]

1 hour ago, lipi said:

Serendipity struck on number 10!

In an attempt to solve the mystery, I went to pull a Dodds CD and this whole weird "alphabetization" thing that's all the rage these days put the correct CD right in front of my nose: Dixieland Jug Blowers. I had to listen to the CD to find the right tune: "Memphis Shake", recorded in Chicago in 1926.

Thank you for reminding me of these guys.

Yep. I love the whole Memphis-north-to-Louisville jug band scene of the 1920s, and love that Dodds fit right in with them. And as a 78 collector, I love that this side is the flip of Jelly Roll Morton's "Doctor Jazz."

[lipi]

4 hours ago, jeffcrom said:

[...] Jelly Roll Morton's "Doctor Jazz."

And what a great record *that* is!

Double A-side indeed.

[jeffcrom]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:52 PM, lipi said:

3. OK. This isn't going to surprise anyone, but I am convinced this is a band tuning up, and they switched instruments for the occasion. Less facetiously: can someone explain this to me? What is interesting or pleasing about this? I'm genuinely curious (though probably not curious enough to play it again). (For the record, I also detest Rothko and Pollock.) Negative infinity stars.

 

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I'll give it a shot. Understood that everyone has different tastes, and that a majority of music listeners (or art lovers, or poetry readers) are not inclined to enjoy the most challenging, avant-garde offerings in those fields. Nothing wrong with any of that. But since you're curious, here's my perspective, with some personal history.

Music like this gives me feelings/reactions that no other kind of music provides. It gives me a kind of slightly abrasive excitement, and I enjoy "watching" (that's how I think of it) the musicians interact and respond to each other. (And they are listening and interacting, even if it sounds random to you). And when the trumpet player returns at the end with the same abstract Texas blues licks (that's a hint) that he started with, I find it immensely satisfying.

Again, everyone is different - but I have found that I have to understand what's going on at some level to enjoy any kind of music. I've probably told this story before, but I once had a very similar reaction to this kind of music that you are having, lipi. I acquired a sampler album on the Arista/Freedom label when I was about 16. It was my introduction to "free jazz," and I liked some of it right away. But there was a track by Albert Ayler, and I was horrified and repelled by it. It seemed like the ugliest music I had ever heard. But I was also fascinated and curious - in my case, curious enough to listen again, because I wanted to know why anyone would make music that sounded like that. On my third listen, I realized that Ayler was playing a recurring melody - so abstract that I didn't hear it at first - that ran through the piece. As soon as it started to musically make sense to me, I could start to get an emotional message (other than revulsion) out of the music.

Not that you or anyone else "should" like this track, or anything else you don't care for. I've had a taste for the unusual since an early age, and not everyone does. But if you're interested in giving the track another try (and I'm not suggested that you should), concentrate on what the trumpet player is doing, and how the saxophone player responds to that - throwing it back with an even more abstract flavor.

I don't know whether or not this is related, but I never liked Kid Thomas Valentine's trumpet playing until I heard Lester Bowie's. I heard a lot of the same sounds and impulses.

[Hot Ptah]

Track 3 is by far my favorite track on this BFT. I love it. It reminds me of the great Arista Freedom LPs of the 1970s. I thought it might be on something I own, but it seems not. This is very intriguing, inspiring music. It is right in my wheelhouse where I love to listen. 

[Milestones]

Isn't it time for the Reveal?

 

[jeffcrom]

 

42 minutes ago, Milestones said:

Isn't it time for the Reveal?

 

I posted about this, but it was combined with another post. I have been asked by the BFT administrator to wait until Friday, May 3 to post the reveal. I'm ready any time; unless I am told otherwise I'll post the selections tomorrow morning.

[Hot Ptah]

2 hours ago, Milestones said:

Isn't it time for the Reveal?

 

The BFT presenter for May, who is presenting his first BFT, is not quite ready to post the link to his musical selections. To avoid having too long of a gap with no BFT, and to give members more time to comment on Jeff's test, I asked him to delay the Reveal.

[Milestones]

OK

[lipi]

On 01/05/2019 at 1:07 PM, jeffcrom said:

I wasn't going to respond to this, but I'll give it a shot. Understood that everyone has different tastes, and that a majority of music listeners (or art lovers, or poetry readers) are not inclined to enjoy the most challenging, avant-garde offerings in those fields. Nothing wrong with any of that. But since you're curious, here's my perspective, with some personal history.

Music like this gives me feelings/reactions that no other kind of music provides. It gives me a kind of slightly abrasive excitement, and I enjoy "watching" (that's how I think of it) the musicians interact and respond to each other. (And they are listening and interacting, even if it sounds random to you). And when the trumpet player returns at the end with the same abstract Texas blues licks (that's a hint) that he started with, I find it immensely satisfying.

Again, everyone is different - but I have found that I have to understand what's going on at some level to enjoy any kind of music. I've probably told this story before, but I once had a very similar reaction to this kind of music that you are having, lipi. I acquired a sampler album on the Arista/Freedom label when I was about 16. It was my introduction to "free jazz," and I liked some of it right away. But there was a track by Albert Ayler, and I was horrified and repelled by it. It seemed like the ugliest music I had ever heard. But I was also fascinated and curious - in my case, curious enough to listen again, because I wanted to know why anyone would make music that sounded like that. On my third listen, I realized that Ayler was playing a recurring melody - so abstract that I didn't hear it at first - that ran through the piece. As soon as it started to musically make sense to me, I could start to get an emotional message (other than revulsion) out of the music.

Not that you or anyone else "should" like this track, or anything else you don't care for. I've had a taste for the unusual since an early age, and not everyone does. But if you're interested in giving the track another try (and I'm not suggested that you should), concentrate on what the trumpet player is doing, and how the saxophone player responds to that - throwing it back with an even more abstract flavor.

I don't know whether or not this is related, but I never liked Kid Thomas Valentine's trumpet playing until I heard Lester Bowie's. I heard a lot of the same sounds and impulses.

Thank you for this! That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Perhaps I'll try giving it another go and listen for the thing you suggest. I'll be on a plane to Toronto for five hours and nowhere to flee, so seems like the perfect time!