Play ball! 2019 MLB season thread

[JSngry]

They started last night? Who knew?

[ghost of miles]

From the NPR story that posted last night... how very, er, Trumpian!

In a formal statement, the Astros defended Taubman aggressively, calling Apstein's column "misleading and completely irresponsible" and saying the executive was just supporting a player. The team said it was "extremely disappointed in Sports Illustrated's attempt to fabricate a story where one does not exist."

The Astros have had a rocky relationship with the media in the recent past. The club tossed a reporter from the Detroit Free Press out of the team's locker room after star pitcher Justin Verlander didn't want to take his questions. The team barred another reporter from the hometown Houston Chronicle. 

"It's just arrogance. That is what the organizational philosophy with the Houston Astros is," ESPN baseball columnist Jeff Passan said on Outside the Lines. "The Astros always, when they are attacked, will attack back. And that's what this was, despite the fact that we're on Day 1 of the World Series ... talking about this and not Gerrit Cole versus Max Scherzer."

Astros executive’s rant at reporters draws firestorm on eve of series

On a much groovier note, another friend hipped me to the good vibes that emanate from Nats reliever Sean Doolittle and his wife (who calls herself “the only goth among baseball WAGS):

“I wanted to feel the energy that was in the stadium so that it wouldn’t catch me off guard when I did finally come into the game.”

Sean Doolittle WS postgame interview

Dude, in your spare time you’re a herbalist who plays in an indie rock band, right?!   And his wife does indeed sound like a cool character herself, especially for her LGBT advocacy:

Eireann Dolan

Go Nats!!

 

 

[ghost of miles]

Some good comments here:

Baseball fans react to Astros’ front-office debacle

And Sean Doolittle conducting an interview with a lightsaber after the Nats won the NLCS:

Obi-Sean Kenobi

May the Force be with you, Nats! 

[BERIGAN]

apparently, the regular season is just pointless....at least if you are the braves, and their fans I figured there was no way the braves could beat the Dodgers, or the Astros ....of course the Braves won the season series against the Nats, and the Cards, and the last series against the Dodgers (at SunTrust) ...could see the braves beating the Nats if we had faced them, even with our inferior rotation....woulda, coulda, shoulda....still couldn't see us beating the Astros....

Nats are built for the playoffs with their rotation, but so are the 'stros...I could, could see Houston win 4 straight...I could also see Strasburg winning tonight...but, still cannot fathom the Astros being swept.

but...who knows? I guess that's why they play them (for now, lets have robot umps and players, now that would be interesting!)

[Dan Gould]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

I

In the meantime, there's nothing that gets me fuquitous quicker than offering a sincere, heartfelt apology for something and then being told "well, that's not good enough". Well, sometimes it's gonna have to be.

Sometimes. We either talk more in the spirit of mutual goodwill  or we don't. A sincere apology is a beginning, not an end, and if it is indeed "not good enough", then there's no place to begin, so there's the end, already.

And not that the Astros' official" apology doesn't have Corporate Rush Job written all over it.

But Shame Shaming is still Shaming nonetheless. Not interested. Start - and finish - without me on that one.

Jim, the woke masses have found an offense worthy of the death penalty: domestic violence (and I'm pretty sure, actual sexual assault but that still depends, to some extent, on the partisan affiliation of the offender, eg Bill Clinton).

In other words, there is a fairly large mass of commentators who will never ever accept that Osuna can be allowed to pitch anywhere, for any team, for money.  The fact that Houston made the trade will always be offensive, even though:

the victim refused to return to Canada to testify, and in fact told investigators that she is not afraid of Osuna and wishes to continue to co-parent with him.   In point of fact he was never found guilty of anything by any court of competent jurisdiction;

Osuna was punished by MLB by the terms of the last contract between MLB and the player's association. It wasn't a slap on the wrist - 75 game suspension.

Baseball teams (well, at least a majority) are in the business of fielding a competitive team to win games and make money.  Houston paid a price when they made the trade, and they also clearly improved the team by doing it.  The SJWs have decreed that they must pay a price forever or until Osuna is off the roster. 

God help us if he saves four games in this WS and gets MVP.

and there's this tweet, from David's link above, from someone so woke she's asleep (Kerith Burke, basketball reporter)

The root of Taubman’s rage is forcing the Astros to be accountable. These phone numbers and tweets or any DV conversations mean the Astros don’t get to control the message about their unpopular choice to get Osuna, and their prioritization of wins over victims

WTFH? Prioritization of wins over victims?

Like I said, death penalty for certain crimes. No one gets a second chance. Osuna can never play for money again, ever, anywhere.

[ghost of miles]

2 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Jim, the woke masses have found an offense worthy of the death penalty: domestic violence (and I'm pretty sure, actual sexual assault but that still depends, to some extent, on the partisan affiliation of the offender, eg Bill Clinton).

In other words, there is a fairly large mass of commentators who will never ever accept that Osuna can be allowed to pitch anywhere, for any team, for money.  The fact that Houston made the trade will always be offensive, even though:

the victim refused to return to Canada to testify, and in fact told investigators that she is not afraid of Osuna and wishes to continue to co-parent with him.   In point of fact he was never found guilty of anything by any court of competent jurisdiction;

Osuna was punished by MLB by the terms of the last contract between MLB and the player's association. It wasn't a slap on the wrist - 75 game suspension.

Baseball teams (well, at least a majority) are in the business of fielding a competitive team to win games and make money.  Houston paid a price when they made the trade, and they also clearly improved the team by doing it.  The SJWs have decreed that they must pay a price forever or until Osuna is off the roster. 

God help us if he saves four games in this WS and gets MVP.

and there's this tweet, from David's link above, from someone so woke she's asleep (Kerith Burke, basketball reporter)

The root of Taubman’s rage is forcing the Astros to be accountable. These phone numbers and tweets or any DV conversations mean the Astros don’t get to control the message about their unpopular choice to get Osuna, and their prioritization of wins over victims

WTFH? Prioritization of wins over victims?

Like I said, death penalty for certain crimes. No one gets a second chance. Osuna can never play for money again, ever, anywhere.

Osuna’s right to play baseball again has not been questioned by anybody in this thread—that’s a whole ‘nother issue, and the Yankees have dealt with this too, obviously. They originally picked up Chapman after his own DV incodent made him non gratis in Cincinnati and reduced his trade-market value, much like Houston and Osuna. Their best starting pitcher this year, Domingo German, missed the postseason and may miss much more time because of his own DV incident. So believe me, plenty of windows in my particular baseball glass house. There were plenty of Yankee and Astros fans who were not happy about their team’s respective acquisitions in this regard. From my perspective, the thing to do is to put these guys through some pretty intense therapy and psychological reconditioning and give them a second chance. Best-case scenario, they flip the script and become spokesmen against DV. I gotta say Osuna has seemed the least contrite of any player involved in DV, and I’ve read much less innocuous accounts of what happened in his case and the aftermath of it. But whatever—dude should be allowed to play wherever a team will hire him. The topic here is a most-likely-drunk Astros executive being an asshat to women reporters and singling out one in particular who’s an outspoken advocate against DV. And then the Astros, instead of simply apologizing (yeah, apologizing, which simply means you fucking apologize without any b.s. ifs, ands and buts) on his behalf, put out a dumpster-fire of a statement that has all the hallmarks of a utter bullshit Trumpian media attack. 

Also, Osuna, Chapman etc all got second chances and are playing in MLB. Colin Kaepernick, a very talented QB still in his prime, can’t get a gig *anywhere* in the NFL because he kneels rather than stands during the national anthem. How fucked up is that? Yeah, baseball and football, like all sports, are a business. Says a lot about how fucked up things are that it’s considered less risky business to sign a DV perpetrator than it is a guy who kneels for the national anthem. And speaking of “national”... go Nats! 

 

[JSngry]

Not defending Osuna, and there is NO defense for Taubman.

But people should get their own shit together before whining about the obvious. That's just too easy. Like, if you know somebody in your world who is perpetrating domestic violence or being victimized by it, what are you doing about it besides piling on an already identified asshole on social media? Seems like the cheap way out, and definitely doesn't help that neighbor of yours who's been acting kinda weird...

Sports is a great way to live vicariously. But real problems of real people, that's not sports, and that's not vicarious. Easy outrage against easy targets is an easy out for a serious problem. But such is life today, where everything is media in some form or fashion, everybody's looking, right?

and btw - "woke" and "SJW" and all that bullshit don't play well with me, either as actors or as derogatory tags. Just one more line of digital behavioral code for what were once analog creatures.

Outrage outrage everywhere, and not a drop to think.

 

and while I'm at it - fuck professional sports, period. I've had enough.

[soulpope]

12 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Also, Osuna, Chapman etc all got second chances and are playing in MLB. Colin Kaepernick, a very talented QB still in his prime, can’t get a gig *anywhere* in the NFL because he kneels rather than stands during the national anthem. How fucked up is that? Yeah, baseball and football, like all sports, are a business. Says a lot about how fucked up things are that it’s considered less risky business to sign a DV perpetrator than it is a guy who kneels for the national anthem. And speaking of “national”... go Nats! 

Yep ....

[JSngry]

Yeah, I too am distressed that racism and misogyny are not on equal economic footing.

 

[Dan Gould]

First of all gents I didn't accuse anyone on this thread of believing that Osuna shouldn't be allowed to work as a pitcher, for pay, forevermore.  That was an observation of the plethora of media types whose pontifications make their attitude very clear.

Is anyone here defending 

"their prioritization of wins over victims" ?

Because that's some fucked up shit.

Is this other reporter, supposed target of the exec, still tweeting domestic abuse hotline numbers whenever Osuna enters a game? Because that's some fucked up shit-stirring too.  And if she stopped after last season, color me shocked if she now resumes.

And Kapernick as a "very talented QB" is pretty amusing when his adjusted QB rating post 2012 is 97.5, when, like OPS+, 100 is league average. He's a less than league-average QB the last four years of his career, and on top of that he repeats his "offense" every day he's on the sideline - Chapman, Osuna et al don't punch an intimate partner each time they come in from the bullpen. Kapernick happily offends a large proportion of the football audience by expressing himself on socio/political subjects. More power to him, and equal power to the league owners who have to balance the ongoing headache he'd provide  vs the perceived value of a mediocre QB.

So unless Osuna starts sporting "beat your GF - it's fun" t-shirts around the clubhouse these really aren't comparable situations.

Now have at me, don't care, I've said my peace. See ya in the hot stove season.

[ghost of miles]

59 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yeah, I too am distressed that racism and misogyny are not on equal economic footing.

 

Huh? I know this is Jsngry sarcasm, but point is that an African-American quarterback whose “offense” is to kneel instead of stand during the national anthem because of police violence against people of color is effectively blackballed from playing for years, while dudes who clock their girlfriends or wives get a suspension and then are often welcomed back. That is fucked up, whatever the clever sarcastic point is. This whole Astros Osuna issue blew up because of Taubman and then the team’s initial f’d up response... it wasn’t on the radar at all until Taubman started carrying on in the clubhouse.

45 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

 

Is this other reporter, supposed target of the exec, still tweeting domestic abuse hotline numbers whenever Osuna enters a game? Because that's some fucked up shit-stirring too.  And if she stopped after last season, color me shocked if she now resumes.

And Kapernick as a "very talented QB" is pretty amusing when his adjusted QB rating post 2012 is 97.5, when, like OPS+, 100 is league average. He's a less than league-average QB the last four years of his career, and on top of that he repeats his "offense" every day he's on the sideline - Chapman, Osuna et al don't punch an intimate partner each time they come in from the bullpen. Kapernick happily offends a large proportion of the football audience by expressing himself on socio/political subjects. More power to him, and equal power to the league owners who have to balance the ongoing headache he'd provide  vs the perceived value of a mediocre QB.

So unless Osuna starts sporting "beat your GF - it's fun" t-shirts around the clubhouse these really aren't comparable situations.

Now have at me, don't care, I've said my peace. See ya in the hot stove season.

Don’t see anything wrong with the reporter tweeting DV hotline numbers. This is a huge issue that goes far beyond highly-paid star athletes and professional sports franchises, obviously.  Anything that raises awareness of ways to get help is good in my book. I hope she does resume. 

And Kaepernick’s still a lot better than a lot of other QBs floating around the NFL these days. In my backyard the Colts sure could have used him after Andrew Luck announced his sudden retirement. Yeah, his “offense” isn’t comparable because it doesn’t involve physically assaulting someone. It’s a statement *against* violence, and it got him run out of the NFL. I was already done with professional football or football of *any* sort, given that an essential element of the game involves beating the stuffing out of other players, but the treatment of Kaepernick sealed my undone-deal with football. 

See ya on the hot-stove thread, whenever it starts after the WS ends. Going to be an interesting winter for our Yanks and Bosox.

[BERIGAN]

 

Quote

Colin Kaepernick, a very talented QB still in his prime, can’t get a gig *anywhere* in the NFL because he kneels rather than stands during the national anthem.

well, he hasn't played since 2016, when he won 1 game, and lost 10. Had one game he was pulled in the 4th quarter after throwing for 4 whole yards!

But, some team should take on the media shitstorm (and likely fan backlash) that would follow, so they can have a QB who hasn't played in almost 3 years?

wait, I thought this was a baseball thread!

If the superbowl was the Houston Texans vs. the Washington Redskins....huge ratings, cuz...SUPERBOWL! but, Astros vs. Nats? Nah, I'll watch ...whatever I haven't seen before on Netflix....

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/world-series-is-us-tv-ratings-tuesday-oct-22-2019-1249519

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by BERIGAN

[JSngry]

AFAIC, the key part of "Twitter" is Twit. It's a sign of These, The Last Of The Good Old Days, that Twitter is considered an effective fix to any long-standing/ongoing social issue. That's that Devil Work going on again...

But yeah, tweet phone numbers, Or better yet, go answer the damn phones when they ring, because they do ring, with or without Twitter. Shut your damn phone off and get your ass in with real peoples with real hurts, occupy your time doing that. I'm far more a fan of grace than I am of righteousness.

Now, where are our Agents Of Positive Change who are tweeting AA #s, or MADD #s, or NarcAnon #s, or Gamblers Anonymous #s, or all those other numbers relegated to harmful behaviors that at least one (or more) professional athlete has been demonstrated to engage in? Just set up a Twitter Station in front of evry event and cover all bases, and then feel good when the phones ring for somebody else to answer.

(for the record, I don't think the reporter in question is necessarily guilty of this type of empty "advocacy", I sincerely hope she's not, she sounds pretty gutsy to me, but good god, if everybody who "likes" the tweeting actually did impactful work in their immediate communities, the phones might ring just a little less, ya' think?)

As for Kapernick, he was vulnerable because he was good, not great. He took his stand (ok, his kneel) anyway, hopefully fully aware that he was gonna be fucked in so doing. More power to him, and now, I still ain't gonna buy Nike, because Nike, but more power to them too.

[ghost of miles]

Interesting WS comparison from Red Sox beat writer Ian Brown in his reply to a fan’s query:

When was the last time the World Series pitching matchups were this good? You have two former Cy Young Award winners, and also this year’s probable Cy Young Award winners in both leagues. And they are all pitching well.
-- Mike O.

Great point. The Astros have Gerrit Cole, Justin Verlander and Zack Greinke. The Nats have Max Scherzer, Stephen Strasburg and Patrick Corbin. I looked up every World Series in the 21st century. The only Fall Classic that matches this one in terms of the caliber of starting pitchers on both sides is 2001.

The Yankees had Roger Clemens (that year’s American League Cy Young Award winner), and also Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte. The D-backs had Randy Johnson (that year’s National League Cy Young Award winner) and Curt Schilling (who was the second-best pitcher in the league after Johnson). That series lived up to the hype and more, going seven games, with Arizona coming out on top. Let’s hope this year’s matchup lives up to it.

[Soulstation1]

Put $25 on Washington if you can 

[JSngry]

Hard to beat this year's staffs. but 1966 Orioles vs Dodgers, O's starters didn't have uber-impressive stats at that point, but Palmer & McNally were there w/Barber holding his own, and the Drabowsky-led bullpen was steady killing it. Dodgers had Koufax, Drysdale, Osteen, and Sutton all in peak/peakish/peaking form. The Vulture was in the pen, but so was bob Miller.

That was a great series if you were an Orioles fan (and I was), but the O's, even with the Robinsons & Boog, were not the favorites in the face of the Dodgers' starters. How about that!

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Hard to beat this year's staffs. but 1966 Orioles vs Dodgers, O's starters didn't have uber-impressive stats at that point, but Palmer & McNally were there w/Barber holding his own, and the Drabowsky-led bullpen was steady killing it. Dodgers had Koufax, Drysdale, Osteen, and Sutton all in peak/peakish/peaking form. The Vulture was in the pen, but so was bob Miller.

That was a great series if you were an Orioles fan (and I was), but the O's, even with the Robinsons & Boog, were not the favorites in the face of the Dodgers' starters. How about that!

I wasn't yet a year old, so no memories of this series obviously, but I've read about it, and yeah, for 20th-century series that was an amazing matchup of pitchers.  That Dodgers staff was insane.  How about that indeed?! 

 

[JSngry]

And think about this - the Dodgers had almost literally no offense 《speed yes, bats no) and in a three way race with the Giants and Pirates (power aplenty, both, as well as pretty damn good staffs), they came out on top. Pitcing, pitching, pitching. And more pitching.

I wish I had been old enough to really appreciate Sandy Koufax, especially since that was his last season  What I  do recall is damn near pure awesomeness.

But them O's, man, they were NOT going to be denied!

[ghost of miles]

6 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

 

Now have at me, don't care, I've said my peace. See ya in the hot stove season.

Setting the hot stove on pre-heat, via the MassLive blog--Brandon Taubman, potential Red Sox GM candidate, now unhireable after clubhouse outburst

>>Before the incident, Taubman likely checked many of the boxes the Sox are looking for in their next GM or president of baseball operations. The club is known to prefer someone from outside the organization, is trying to align its front office more on the analytical side and is likely considering organizational No. 2s after striking out in their attempts for top dogs like Theo Epstein, Andrew Friedman, Derek Falvey and Mike Hazen. Taubman even has familiarity with Sox manager Alex Cora, who was Houston’s bench coach in 2017.

But there’s absolutely no chance he’ll be considered now, by the Red Sox or any other club. Somewhere in the offices of 4 Jersey St., Sox president Sam Kennedy is crossing Taubman’s name off a whiteboard, much like ownership groups in 28 other cities.

The incident should also give other organizations pause when it comes to poaching anyone else from the Astros, who have handled themselves as poorly as possible in the aftermath of Apstein’s report. Only manager A.J. Hinch, who himself might have front-office aspirations someday, has stood out as a classy, respectful voice in a chorus of denials, non-apologies and P.R. mishaps.<<

Astros blogger CKuno has a clear take as well, over at the SB Nation Crawfish Boxes website for Houston fans:

The Brandon Taubman controversy is a PR disaster of the Houston Astros' own making

The Astros front office had several chances to get out in front of this story and maybe display that they were an organization aware of the seriousness of the issue. Instead they were unnecessarily reactionary and aggressive, placing themselves and the team firmly in a spot they did not need to be in. As a fan of this team, I cannot see any way that this process could have played out worse, especially on the eve of the biggest series the Astros have played in since 2017.

Please, do what you say Astros, and be better.

 

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

And think about this - the Dodgers had almost literally no offense 《speed yes, bats no) and in a three way race with the Giants and Pirates (power aplenty, both, as well as pretty damn good staffs), they came out on top. Pitcing, pitching, pitching. And more pitching.

I wish I had been old enough to really appreciate Sandy Koufax, especially since that was his last season  What I  do recall is damn near pure awesomeness.

But them O's, man, they were NOT going to be denied!

Incredible to think that the O's had *four* 20-game winners just several years later in what, 1971?  That's something that almost certainly will never happen again.

Edited October 23, 2019 by ghost of miles

[JSngry]

Palmer. McNally, Cellar ex-Astro), and the perhaps unlikely Pat Doson.

Palmer''s story was pasticularly remarkable in real time...talk about being left for dead on the side of the road, that was him.

As for Taubman now being unhireable (for now...), ...how about that, eh? Oh well!

[ghost of miles]

This game has certainly turned into a who’s-gonna-blink-first pitching duel after that outburst of runs in the first.

[Soulstation1]

Washington putting it on Houston 

[Brad]

Before the series started I thought the Nats had a shot because they have better starting pitching and their pen, which was horrific during the regular season, started to pitch better towards the end of the season. The third game pitching matchups certainly favors them. However, teams losing the first two at home and coming back to win is not unprecedented. See the 85 Royals and 86 Mets. 

Some major ass kicking going on tonight. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Brad

[soulpope]

The Nats on fire 🥁 ....

[Dan Gould]

There's already been reporting that the Red Sox will look internally for the GM position. Otherwise why start reassigning coaches or get out in front on hiring a pitching coach? They've already locked their GM into accepting Cora's position as manager.