Blue Note's TONE POET series.

[Quasimado]

On 7/11/2019 at 2:09 PM, BFrank said:

 Secondly, it seems like a lot of the members are buying them not for the music, but to say they have them in their collection. Reminds me a LOT of the heyday of Mosaic-mania.

Didn't know about Mosaic mania. You mean even I might be considered hip?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

9 hours ago, sidewinder said:

I was amazed to see pretty well all of these Tone Poets at my local HMV this morning. At nearly £41 a pop though they are a pretty expensive proposition. Not sure I want to pay that for a copy of ‘Mr Shing A Ling’. I can buy a Liberty for that ! 

To my ears, the Tone Poet of "Mr. Shing A Ling" is surprisingly good. I could feel the bass on this LP. It's a really nice cut. I don't have the Liberty to compare but I can't imagine this could be beat.

Not so sure I would go for "Black Fire" though, as the piano warble is much more noticeable on the Tone Poet cut  than on my old Liberty Van Gelder pressing.

[sidewinder]

Thanks for that - tempted to pick one of these up just to check the series out. Don’t have ‘Mr Shing A Ling’ so that would be the one, maybe, to try out. I have an original mono ‘Black Fire’ so will pass on that one, great though the title is.

The HMV store was blasting out Lou’s ‘The Natural Soul’ so they were doing everything to get me to buy. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by sidewinder

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Boy, has the discussion over the distortion on the Tone Poet LP of Andrew Hill's "Black Fire" gone off the rails over on the Hoffman forums. There is clearly some weirdness on my pressing but once reissue producer Joe Harley came into the thread and stated that it sounded fine to him, I knew it would go downhill fast and it has. Now you have the defenders telling the complainers that their audio system sucks, their cartridge sucks, their ears suck and the complainers fighting back. It's sad to watch.

Personally, I stay out of that stuff over there. It's only a matter of time before they scrub that thread of all references to "Black Fire" and ban anyone who mentions it again. All it's going to take is for Hoffman to chime in and all hell will break loose.

BTW - if anyone wants to hear what the fuss is all about on the Tone Poet of "Black Fire", I'll sell you my copy for $20 plus shipping.

[sidewinder]

The Hoffman Board ‘Tone Poet’ thread is my daily light entertainment. 

If I was in the US I would take you up on the ‘Black Fire’ just to hear what the deal was all about. Sadly, shipping and tax would probably run at 3-4 times that !

Edited August 19, 2019 by sidewinder

[erwbol]

Thanks for the tip. 

[porcy62]

I've seen things you hoffmanites wouldn't believe. Warped Prestiges on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Van Gelder Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[erwbol]

6 minutes ago, porcy62 said:

I've seen things you hoffmanites wouldn't believe. Warped Prestiges on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Van Gelder Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

[JSngry]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 4:37 PM, bresna said:

Not so sure I would go for "Black Fire" though, as the piano warble is much more noticeable on the Tone Poet cut  than on my old Liberty Van Gelder pressing.

Serious question - are you saying that there is "piano warble" on your older pressing, and that's it's more noticeable on this new version? Or are you saying that it's not on your older version at all?

It's been so long since I listened to the album at all that I couldn't tell you what was on there in terms of anything like this. I've got one of those 70s blue label LPs, no idea who pressed it, though. Been listening to it on CD for a few decades now (when I do listen to it). Makes me wonder if it's been there from the beginning and now the more they clean it up, the more noticeable it gets?

[Clunky]

I’ve not read the Hoffman thread but I have listened and relistened to Black Fire. I still can’t see what the fuss is about.

The TP sounds wonderfully open and clear. I’ve got a N.Y. mono but haven’t done any comparison as life’s too short. I just fancied a nice stereo pressing...

[porcy62]

I didn't listen to it, but on the Mosaic box set there's no clue about problems in this session's tapes, though they underlined problems in other two sessions in the booklet.

Edited August 19, 2019 by porcy62
typo

[erwbol]

The Mosaic CD is my favourite CD reissue of this album. I listened to it last night. No issues whatsoever I believe.

Edited August 19, 2019 by erwbol

[sidewinder]

No problems that I could hear on the NY mono pressing I listened to the other night.

For this particular title I also have a NY stereo - rare luxury. Don’t recall any issues with that one either.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Andrew Hill's piano style is unique and from what I hear on both of my LP pressings as well as on my CD version, there is certainly some dissonant sounds on there. In my hearing, it's intentional. Whether it's from a slightly out of tune piano or something Hill is doing I don't know. I do know that on the Tone Poet LP, there are some sustained piano notes that sound a bit more out of tune/pitch than they do on the other versions of this, especially for the tunes on Side 2.

Is this a deal breaker for me? Hell no. This is one of my favorite Hill records. That's why I bought the Tone Poet. But what the comparison showed me was that I liked the sound of the old Van Gelder cut more. My ears, my money, my decision.

I just don't think chiming in with my thoughts on this on that Hoffman thread would help, especially once Joe Harley got involved.

15 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Serious question - are you saying that there is "piano warble" on your older pressing, and that's it's more noticeable on this new version? Or are you saying that it's not on your older version at all?

People are posting audio from the Tone Poet LP. Here is a clip from one the tracks on Side 2 that seems to have a little oddness to it... more so than my old pressing.

https://clyp.it/tuiufg5j

Is "warble" the right word for this?

And here's a second clip from a different Tone Poet LP just so you know it's not likely an off center pressing, which can often cause weird pitch fluctuations like that.

https://clyp.it/inqpw5vr

[JSngry]

Can't access the clips right now, but there's a big difference between dissonance and pitch warble. A dissonance can give you a palpable sense of, uh..."vibrational friction", but that's entirely different than pitches actually moving around...

[kh1958]

Yesterday I listened to the Tone Poet version of Introducing Kenny Burrell, a record I have never run across on LP form even as a Liberty. It sounded beautiful. Quiet surfaces. No warp. Attractive cover with very nice photos in the inner sleeve. I must be missing some terrible flaw.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Just now, kh1958 said:

Yesterday I listened to the Tone Poet version of Introducing Kenny Burrell, a record I have never run across on LP form even as a Liberty. It sounded beautiful. Quiet surfaces. No warp. Attractive cover with very nice photos in the inner sleeve. I must be missing some terrible flaw.

There's a near consensus that the Tone Poet LP of "Introducing Kenny Burrell" is fantastic. I have yet to pick one up. My favorite so far is (surprisingly) "Mr. Shing-a Ling".

[kh1958]

1 minute ago, bresna said:

There's a near consensus that the Tone Poet LP of "Introducing Kenny Burrell" is fantastic. I have yet to pick one up. My favorite so far is (surprisingly) "Mr. Shing-a Ling".

Amazon has the Kenny Burrell for a lower price than some of the others (currently $26.99). 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 minutes ago, kh1958 said:

Amazon has the Kenny Burrell for a lower price than some of the others (currently $26.99). 

Thanks. Ordered.  

[erwbol]

There is definitely something wrong with that clip from McNeil Island. The effect is not present on the Mosaic set. This is external to Hill's piano technique.

[JSngry]

I hear it, slightly, not enough to make me jump out my chair screaming, though. But if that effect is not present on earlier issues, the either the new version is too cleaned up for it's own good or else something happened.

But that first clip, is that from a new LP? That thing's noisier than fuck. It's mid-price used bin quality, at best. I'd be more worried about that than I would this other thing.

[Clunky]

My copy is dead quiet.

I listened to that clip and it sounds to me that the TT and or cartridge used weren’t too great. Perhaps TT with poorer speed stability or cartridge tracking might make the sonic concern more evident....just a thought ... I’m no expert...

[erwbol]

I find the effect annoying as fuck. I'm glad it's not present on the Mosaic CD.

Wasn't Black Fire also released as 24bit/192kHz files on HD Tracks in one of those Grundman transfers? I will check those files tomorrow, but I doubt the effect will show up. 

[JSngry]

1 minute ago, Clunky said:

Perhaps TT with poorer speed stability...

Yes.

I started hearing that kind of thing on my records, put a new belt on the TT, and like magic, the problem fixed itself. So, yeah, that might be a factor.

Might be.

 

[erwbol]

A lot of hoffmanite TT belts have started failing simultaneously then.