Blue Note's TONE POET series.

[Eric]

10 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Acoustic Sounds is running a palpable sale on vinyl, which includes the Blue Note Classic and the Tone Poet series.

https://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&start=1 &saleid=677#

 

Wow some of that stuff has been gutted.  Was that the sound of the vinyl bubble bursting?  Or just normal supply and demand for certain titles?

[sidewinder]

34 minutes ago, Eric said:

Wow some of that stuff has been gutted.  Was that the sound of the vinyl bubble bursting?  Or just normal supply and demand for certain titles?

Probably supply and demand. Tone Poets are very significantly cheaper in the US compared with Europe. If it had been over here I would have been all over this sale ! I believe they were also offering the Ornette Coleman box for $99, I.e.half price.

[Dmitry]

Some titles are probably slow sellers. Others, like the Stones, Lennon, etc....no idea why they are so discounted. Maybe  "much better new revolutionary definitive end-game" pressings are forthcoming.

[Eric]

56 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

Some titles are probably slow sellers. Others, like the Stones, Lennon, etc....no idea why they are so discounted. Maybe  "much better new revolutionary definitive end-game" pressings are forthcoming.

Undoubtedly.  There are 1000 page plus threads over at the Hoffman board devoted to such topics ...

[Dmitry]

There are so many mechanical steps in the process of making vinyl records, it's a miracle they can sound so good. 

 

 

[Dub Modal]

4 hours ago, Dmitry said:

There are so many mechanical steps in the process of making vinyl records, it's a miracle they can sound so good. 

 

 

Records and turntables are near to being Rube Goldberg-ian. It's that aesthetic that's part of the appeal. 

[Brad]

Here is an interview by Scotty, a member at Hoffman, who I believe is in the record industry, with Joe Harley of the TP Program. 

*****

Scotty: Could you explain the process that you go through from choosing a particular tape, to the mastering and cutting of a record and then onto the test pressing for you guys to approve?

JH: Once a title list is approved, I get with Jack Arenas, who is in charge of the Capitol vault. I send him my list and he begins the process of sourcing all the masters. I get confirmation of masters from Jack and then, as each title comes up for mastering I direct Jack to send the master to Kevin Gray in advance of mastering. In instances where both mono and stereo masters exist, I direct Jack to send both, so we can evaluate. Once Kevin and I have had our mastering session, the mastered lacquers are then sent overnight to RTI for am delivery. That same night I let RTI know of the incoming lacquers and I request that they be processed immediately upon receipt. Once RTI is able to do the test pressings, those tests are sent to me, Cem and several other people at BN. We all listen to the tests and once approved (or rejected) I let RTI know the results.

Scotty: At what point does the type of jacket, photos if available or the Thomas Conrad essay come into play?

JH: I begin gathering materials for the jackets as soon as the mastering is done. This includes photos (assuming they are available) for BN sessions. In the case of BN albums that were not originally released, I look through the photos and select the cover shot. Then I get with the graphic firm (Meat and Potatoes, Inc) that handles (superbly) jacket layout and give them direction. In the case of non-BN releases from Pacific Jazz etc, the coordination with Meat & Potatoes still happens and then I get with Tom Conrad about the additional liner notes.

2.
Scotty: How do you guys decide what will be a Tone Poet or one of the deeper BNC titles?

JH: It’s pretty simple really…I listen every night to records I dig out from my collection, which is enormous. I make lists…..I’ve been making lists for many years with notes and messages to myself about various albums. (“Do this!!!”) When I’m putting together potential lists for a year’s program of Tone Poet releases, I’m basically just making a program of albums I love from the whole BN family of labels. As everyone knows, this music covers an incredibly wide stylistic range. Everything from swing to bebop, post bop, soul jazz and avant. I love it all! When I do the monthly pairings I try to mix it up a bit and put something more straight ahead with something a bit more out. Once I have a year’s worth of paired titles together I send it over to Don for his blessing. So far (knock on wood) he always says something along the lines of “love it…inspired” or something similar. Cem Kurosman who runs the Classic Series, is a good friend and a total music head….we trade texts nearly every night about music and what we’re listening to. When I’m planning Tone Poet programs years in advance and I’ll sometimes ask if he has plans for a particular title, so we don't collide. He always says, if you want something, take it! He’s been focusing a lot on titles that Ron Rambach and I put out at Music Matters, which is great since I’m not into just repeating what I’ve already worked on. Cem is the real deal….I wish I could talk him into doing interviews!

3.
Scotty: Many of us look forward to more from Solid State and Pacific Jazz. And how about Transition, can we expect anything there and how deep you plan to go outside of the standard BN releases?

JH: You will absolutely see more from all of those labels, including Transition.

Scotty: Thoughts on pre RVG recordings…

JH: I love so many of those sessions, but, for the most part you’re dealing in the pre-tape era. That can present some real challenges, although thankfully, RVG did a lot of transfers from the metal parts to tape later on so we do have those sources.

4.
Scotty: What is your view of the current state of the industry regarding all of the jazz records that almost seem like they are falling out of the sky right now?

JH: It’s a beautiful thing!

Scotty: Do you guys take that into account when deciding on how many copies of a particular record you press at first?

JH: No.

Scotty: Unfortunately many of us can’t afford to get every record we want, thus it appears folks are getting a bit more selective these days before they make a purchase. Does that make you think a bit harder on what you release and what you might be a bit hesitant on at first?

JH: Not really. If you let anything but passion for the music dictate your choices for programs like these you risk diluting the purpose and vision for the whole program.

Scotty: But maybe the attraction of the deep down the rabbit hole of jazz records that could be coming our way can get fans more and more interested to all of the undiscovered gems waiting to be heard…

JH: I think that’s true. There’s a tendency I think for folks to think that this is all catering to older jazz vinyl fans. I think you'd be surprised to learn the real demographics….there are FAR more young people getting into this music we love on vinyl than you might expect.

5.
Scotty: Thought we could change it up a bit here. Regarding your experience as a producer for AudioQuest Records by Larry Willis, Mokave, and Benny Wallace to name a few, do you have any fond memories there?

JH: Oh my gosh…..so many! That Larry Willis album with Gary Bartz and Cecil McBee was done very old school with just a few mics. It was all done in a living room in a house out in MD. The great tenor sax master Bennie Wallace and I first started working together when I asked him to play on a Mighty Sam McLain album I was producing. That led to a number of fine albums for AudioQuest Music, GrooveNote and Enja. Those albums featured sidemen like Tommy Flanagan, Eddie Gomez and Kenny Barron. Go down that Bennie Wallace rabbit hole…you won't be sorry! Mokave….that was a group featuring pianist Larry Karush, bassist Glenn Moore and percussionist Glen Velez. Those records are incredible and the sonics will blow your mind. We did some great non-jazz albums as well, including several with Ry Cooder, Jim Keltner and singer Terry Evans. Those albums are epic.

6.
Scotty: Apart from your love of the music, what technically makes working with RVG/Lion master tapes so interesting?

JH: Depending on the era, and whether the session was at Hackensack or Englewood Cliffs, different issues can come up. Mostly this has to do with the fact that these are live to two track, meaning the mixing takes place on the fly, as the music is being played. If someone gets too close to a mic and “surprises” Rudy, you can get momentary overload, as Rudy quickly brings the level of that instrument down. Also, the headroom of the tape formulations they used at that time was far lower than what is commonly used now, meaning your margin of error between overload and hiss was much smaller. Kevin and I are always in awe of what Rudy managed to get, considering what he had to work with.

Scotty: What is good, tricky, or surprising?

JH: I’m forever surprised at how great those masters sound! When we put up a master tape of an album I’ve heard 100s of times over the years, there is always a eureka moment of how much more information is actually on the tape.

7.
Scotty: Out of all of the MMJ and Tone Poet records released so far, could you share some of your favorites and why you feel that way about them?

JH: I don't know how to answer this….I chose all of those titles because I love them. It's like asking a parent “who is your favorite child”? I love them all, including the 60+ titles that have already been mastered and not yet released.

8.
Scotty: Lets talk some Charles Lloyd...How did the two of you meet and obvious an amazing friendship was built?

JH: Charles and I met when we were both studying meditation with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi in Switzerland back in the 70s. 

Scotty: What is it about his music and personality that attracted you to him?

JH: Charles’ sound and tone is instantly identifiable. And it's a reflection of the man of course. Charles is a deeply spiritual person and a remarkable soul. He’s funny too! I first heard him in the late 60s when I, like so many others at the time, heard his magnificent Forest Flower album. I was hooked.

Scotty: How in the heck does he keep doing what he does at such an amazing level of greatness? 

JH: Scotty that is a GREAT question! I don't have an answer but the fact that Charles at 85, continues to play at such a stratospheric level is a wonderful mystery for us to ponder.

Scotty: Could we possibly get another record from him for the series?

JH: Yes indeed…..we spent a week in the studio in Santa Barbara this past March with Charles and a band including Jason Moran on piano, Larry Grenadier on bass and Brian Blade on drums. Look for the results early next year on BN. Don and everyone at BN who have heard the results are, as Charles would say, extaterated!

9.
Scotty: Wanted to ask you about lost or damaged tapes. We know Oleo, Sweet Honey Bee, and The Jody Grind are unfortunately not going to happen. But can you share any others that you might have wanted to use and found out you could not for one reason or the other? Many have wished for “Let Freedom Ring”, myself included. Any reason it was not chosen for the MMJ series? Hope it had nothing to do with the shape of the tapes.

JH: Let Freedom Ring? No reason we didn't get to it at MMJ other than we just ran out of time. Stand by….

10.
Scotty: Kevin really seems to be on his game more than ever right now. The S/Q of these records are so consistently great, what the heck is going on here?

JH: Kevin has his whole rig at a point where it is simply the best vinyl mastering chain I’ve ever heard. I can go to him with a session and know exactly what we’re going to get. His monitor system and mine at home are different….but tonally they are SO much alike! I come out of those sessions confident in what we got.

Scotty: For a lack of better description, some say they sound like he is cutting hot at times, which we know he is not. Can you explain a bit what he is doing during the mastering process that gives some that impression?

JH: I think you’re referring to average level? With LPs we try to maximise signal to noise level while never resorting to compression.

Scotty: And do you ever stand back at times and go holy sh$$! (for a lack of better words) at what he brings to the table, or is it just business as usual…haha!
JH: It’s never “biz as usual” and it's frequently “holy ****!”.

Scotty: When you have had to master with a digital process, like the State of The Tenor records, what steps might be added differently to get the sound you achieve that make these sound so good…

JH: Kevin has one of the greatest digital converters ever made, the Pacific Microsonics Model Two, which is a huge advantage when working with digital sources. And of course, his mastering chain is beyond supreme in my experience.

11.
Scotty: When represses are done, is the amount pressed based on how well a particular record sold at first, and does current demand help play a role in that as well?

JH: No, the amounts sold are pretty consistent, aside from Blue Train where many more were pressed to accommodate demand.

Scotty: Is it possible at some time that certain titles will not see a repress?

JH: I doubt it.

12.
Scotty: I realize we are going to get defective records here an there. Regarding some of the issues with non-fill which seems to occur mostly with the BNC titles (all though I have been pretty fortunate myself) and just pressing issues in general, with the new plants opening and such are there any new Q/C standards being implemented to help minimize any issues that you are aware of?

JH: Understand that test pressings are almost always perfect. Each of us receive two copies so that if there is a tic or pop one hears at exactly the same place on two copies, you know you need to clean the stamper or go back to the mother. Aside from that, most pressing issues come up in the midst of production, especially when it comes to issues like non-fill. Non-fill results when the molten vinyl puck does not flow completely during the press. The EU plants all use Toolex-Alpha machines or variations thereof. These do not operate under the same intense pressure that the older (and slower cycle) SMT presses have. However, they are more efficient and are quite capable of producing great pressings.

Scotty: I will say that RTI does it best…

JH: RTI uses SMT presses and they have many decades of experience using them.

13.
Scotty: So many like the detail and overall presentation of the jackets. The awesome looking gatefolds with photos or the standard jacket with the Thomas Conrad essay which is a really nice touch. Do you guys ever go this needs to be a Tone Poet because of that or does it strictly come down to a matter of preference from your end?

JH: No, the music comes first in deciding what to release.

14.
Scotty: Is the reissue industry trying to use the master tapes where available and would assume that pretty much relies on the shape and who does the mastering.

JH: I can only speak to what we are doing but we are very fortunate to have all of the analog masters available. I make it a point to make little 40 second videos at every session showing the master, the reels spinning on the Studer and the cutterhead cutting. You can see those on my Instagram (@jazzsaraswati) or my FaceBook.

Scotty: It seems more and more with newly recorded music, all of the mastering is done at once, and if there is a vinyl version the already digitally mastered tape is sent for the engineer to just do the cutting process.

JH: For newly recorded music that would mostly be a mastered file that would be sent for lacquer cutting, not a tape. For anything in the Tone Poet program that is more newly recorded I insist on never working with anything that has already been mastered. Same goes for the Classic Series. I have also been surprised at how often we find out that analog masters of BN titles that were released in the CD era, exist. You’ve seen some of that already with titles like ScoLoHoFo and a couple of others and you’ll see more of this in the future. 

Scotty: Does this seem the way of the land currently or…Not everyone has the studio setup like Kevin that’s for sure!

15.
Scotty: Outside of jazz what types of music do you listen to the most?

JH: I love classical music….Bach is frequently on in the mornings. But I listen to all kinds of music. Dylan is one of my long time favorites…..love his new album Rough and Rowdy Ways. A few days ago I was blown away by Blake Mills new LP “Jelly Road”.

Scotty: And could you share a handful of your all time favorites including at least one rock record please…Also how about a couple of your favorite IPA’s as well?

JH: I’m a sucker for the brews that Russian River offers….Blind Pig, Pliny.

Scotty: And BTW, what was the most recent jazz concert you attended?

JH: That would be the Kenny Barron Trio performance at SOKA University. Just superb! (And I had the great honor of being presented with the Jazz Monsters Hall of Fame award at that concert.)

16.
Scotty: There are so many great bonus/outtakes from some of the recording sessions, could there ever be a plan, not from your series but maybe some type of special release highlighting some of the better ones, or are those just going to stay available on CDs and streaming?

JH: You never know….could be a possibility.

17.
Scotty: Are you starting to see younger people getting interested in how to master and maybe considering that line of work for a possible career? Are there enough opportunities for some to maybe consider it…

JH: There are always new people getting involved thankfully. It’s never a static art. And if you’re really good at it, people will eventually become aware and you’ll stay busy.

18.
Scotty: Overall, how happy were you with the sales of “Round Trip” and is there any chance we might see another boxset released at some time from the series?

JH: Round Trip did exceptionally well. You’ll likely see some future box sets down the line.

Scotty: I realize when you do those it can alter the schedule a bit, so I’m sure that comes into the thought process big time.

JH: It can, due to pressing capacity, but that won't preclude occasional box sets in the future.

19.
Scotty: It seems these days the sales of those $100 to $150 priced UHQR’s and One Steps are slowing down some. Do you attribute that to the higher quality we are getting from records priced for no more than $40 at least here in the US and is all of the choices playing into that as well?

JH: I really have no visibility on sales figures for UHQR and One Step albums. 

Scotty: And regarding what some have to pay in Europe as an example because of taxes and shipping, any insight that anything could be put in place in the future to help with what folks pay for certain records over there?

JH: We have no control over what retailers charge either in the US or the rest of the world.

20.
Scotty: To kind of wrap things up, would you be able to share how far out you are with the mastering and choices from the series at this time?

JH: As I mentioned above, we’re running about 2 ½ years ahead at this point, which works out to about 60 titles out front.

JH: Finally, I'd like to wish everyone over at SHF well and give my deepest thanks for their continued interest in what we are doing at Blue Note. I think folks will be very pleased with what we have in store for you over the coming years.

[sidewinder]

So - ‘Let Freedom Ring’ should be in a forthcoming batch..

[Eric]

On 5/20/2023 at 6:14 AM, Dmitry said:

There are so many mechanical steps in the process of making vinyl records, it's a miracle they can sound so good. 

 

 

I could not agree more.  I am amazed at how good it can sound.

[sidewinder]

For anyone currently in Central London, Blue Note UK are currently running a pop-up store at King's Cross (Coal Drops Yard) and they have a good supply of Tone Poets and other LPs. I just picked up 'It's Time' and 'Cornbread' plus a signed Charles Lloyd LP.

Not only that, Charles was in the store signing LPs so I had my photo taken with him. Awesome !

Edited November 16, 2023 by sidewinder

[Aftab]

Wow Sidewinder. That’s pretty sweet! Always cool to meet a legend. 

[sidewinder]

Yeah, it was totally unexpected. In fact I was stood right next to Charles scanning Tone Poets wondering justvwhat this guy to my left was doing sat down at a table doodling away. Then reality kicked in when it dawned, didn't have long but got some nice shots before he left like a flash. Very low key to say the least but nice guy ! There weren't many folks in the store at the time but all left delighted.

Not only that, they threw in a Blue Note beer, stickers and tote bag too !

Edited November 16, 2023 by sidewinder

[sidewinder]

Just also to add that the guy in the store confirmed that they had several boxes of Tone Poets brought in specially from the US with Tone Poets otherwise currently unavailable here. 'Cornbread' is in that category. Honest Jon's also just opposite, which is nice.

[mjazzg]

I chose the wrong day not to go to Kings X! I haven't seen any promotion of that BN shop but remember they did similar at a previous LJF.

Off to see Charles tomorrow 

[sidewinder]

There were only 5 or 6 people in the store when Charles was in there so to say it was a stealth visit would be an understatement !

The concert tomorrow should be good.

[GA Russell]

Congrats, Bob!  That's terrific!

[adh1907]

I remember Blue Note opening the pop up store in Coal Drop Yard a few years back.  Odd they don’t publicise this. Must have been great to bump into Charles Lloyd! Buy anything from honest Jon’s opposite? This, rather than the Portobello Road branch, is now their jazz shop. Usually a few interesting items. 

[sidewinder]

1 hour ago, adh1907 said:

I remember Blue Note opening the pop up store in Coal Drop Yard a few years back.  Odd they don’t publicise this. Must have been great to bump into Charles Lloyd! Buy anything from honest Jon’s opposite? This, rather than the Portobello Road branch, is now their jazz shop. Usually a few interesting items. 

Yep, I picked up a copy of Cedar Walton 'First Set' on Steeplechase in the S/H section. There was some nice second hand vinyl offerings in there plus decent selection of Tone Poets etc. Jazz books too.

It's nice that Kings Cross now has a decent jazz outlet to finally take over the baton left by Mole (all trace of which now seems to have been obliterated).

Re: Charles. Last time I saw him was at Cheltenham Town Hall I think but I've also seen him at Carnegie Hall back in the 90s. I still can't believe it was him !

Edited November 17, 2023 by sidewinder

[Rabshakeh]

To make things more tempting, Honest Jon's has just finally got more second hand stock in. 

This is most less popular styles of jazz (swing, cool, vocal, Atlantic dancey 60s stuff) but it's pretty much all killer, and priced sensibly, so if anyone wants to top up on that kind of stuff it's a good time to visit.

I think most of it comes from the boss's own record collection. I guess he's sold off all the AACM, free / spiritual and Tristano stuff now, and is clearing the rest of.

[dougcrates]

2024 Tone Poet Series line-up

January 5, 2024
Lou Donaldson – Midnight Creeper (Blue Note, 1968)
Elvin Jones – Poly-Currents (Blue Note, 1969)

February 2, 2024
Blue Mitchell – Down With It (Blue Note, 1965)
Joe Lovano – Trio Fascination: Edition One (Blue Note, 1997)

March 1, 2024
Jackie McLean – Action (Blue Note, 1964)
Booker Ervin – Tex Book Tenor (Blue Note, 1968)

April 5, 2024
Horace Silver – Silver’s Serenade (Blue Note, 1963)
Anthony Williams – Life Time (Blue Note, 1964)

May 3, 2024
Donald Byrd – Byrd’s Eye View (Transition, 1955)
Bobby Hutcherson – Total Eclipse (Blue Note, 1968)

June 7, 2024
Doug Watkins – Watkins At Large (Transition, 1956)
Kenny Dorham & Jackie McLean – Inta Somethin’ (Pacific Jazz, 1961)

July 5, 2024
Donald Byrd – Byrd Blows On Beacon Hill (Transition, 1956)
Wayne Shorter – Odyssey of Iska (Blue Note, 1970)

August 2, 2024
Lee Morgan – Taru (Blue Note, 1968)
Bobby Hutcherson – Medina (Blue Note, 1969)

September 6, 2024
The Modest Jazz Trio (Jim Hall/Red Mitchell/Red Kelly) – Good Friday Blues (Pacific Jazz, 1960)
Jackie McLean – Let Freedom Ring (Blue Note, 1962)

October 4, 2024
Booker Little – Booker Little 4 and Max Roach (United Artists, 1958)
Donald Byrd – Kofi (Blue Note, 1969-70)

November 1, 2024
Clifford Jordan – Cliff Jordan (Blue Note, 1957)
Bobby Hutcherson – Dialogue (Blue Note, 1965)

December 6, 2024
Freddie Roach – Good Move (Blue Note, 1963)
Hank Mobley – A Slice of the Top (Blue Note, 1966)

[porcy62]

Few titles I miss, quite happy anyway. 

[sidewinder]

So far the only ones which jump out and say 'buy me' are possibly 'Medina' and 'Action'. I would be interested in 'Iska' too. Most of the rest I will be happy to live with originals and/or Japanese reissues.

[kh1958]

25% off sale on Tone Poets on the Blue Note site today.

[mjazzg]

'Medina' is the big one for me. I've stopped buying TPs of titles I already own as long as the originals play well

[porcy62]

A bit curious about 

The Modest Jazz Trio (Jim Hall/Red Mitchell/Red Kelly) – Good Friday Blues (Pacific Jazz, 1960)

Never heard of it.

And Medina and Iska of course.

I think Action is the McLean Mosaic or am I wrong?

Edited November 17, 2023 by porcy62