Blue Note's TONE POET series.

[Eric]

4 hours ago, Pim said:

Sure Eric.

https://www.recordcity.jp/ is my favorite. Prices are very, very reasonable. A lot of times below the Discogs median price and description is accurate plus there are photos of the product. They have a flat shipping rate trough FedEX and shipping mostly takes a maximum of 5 days from Japan to the Netherlands. 
 

I also order from: https://www.discogs.com/user/ella_records

very decent store. Accurate description and friendly service. 

Also:

https://www.discogs.com/user/madpierrot
 

bit of a weirdo who doesn’t communicate at all. But mostly under grades the condition of his records and asks a fair price. Have bought some beautiful and rare records from him. 
 

Always ask them to set invoice value low as you have to pay a lot of import fees and it could get very expensive. Trough Discogs this is now only possible on 150+ dollar orders.

in my experience ordering from Japan could be very interesting from financial perspective but only with very large orders to keep shipping costs low. This is how I buy records now mostly: instead of ordering 3 or 4 records a month I now save money every month and spend it all at once and make a big order. 
 

Interested to hear if they sell anything interesting for you Eric

Thanks Pim - my habit with Discogs has been to search for what I want with a US seller (to manage shipping), but never really aligned with a specific seller.  Most of my Japanese Blue Note purchasing came 10+ years ago on eBay (the "Buy It Now" option).  I took the approach you suggested - buy in bulk to manage shipping.

So I will check out both these Discogs sellers - thank-you for the recommendation!

[Brad]

This Japanese seller, Jazzbluesjapan, who sells on eBay, has a lot of good used jazz. He describes what he sells pretty well. He tends to have a lot of BN and Prestige. I’ve used him a bit and he ships everything DHL.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185714465812?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=CLw6lga9Qa2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=8Clsqs3wSRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Eric]

3 hours ago, Brad said:

This Japanese seller, Jazzbluesjapan, who sells on eBay, has a lot of good used jazz. He describes what he sells pretty well. He tends to have a lot of BN and Prestige. I’ve used him a bit and he ships everything DHL.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185714465812?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=CLw6lga9Qa2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=8Clsqs3wSRS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thanks Brad.  I have seen their listings but great to have the personal recommendation!

[Pim]

New list is out there:

https://www.bluenote.com/tone-poet-vinyl-reissue-series-2023-line-up/

Will definitely get:

Andrew Hill - Dance with Death

Freddie Hubbard - Blue Spirits

Sonny Clark Trio

Jackie McLean - Demon's Dance

I might get:

The Tyners, the Mobley and the Carmell Jones

I really don't understand why they selected this record by Chet Baker. I love this period by Chet but this ain't a very interesting date. Plus there was more interesting music released on that Pacific Jazz label, by Chet himself and also by others. I wish they did Bud Shanks On Tenor....

[porcy62]

Very happy for Demon’s Dance, if I will remember to buy in October 😊

[mjzee]

Still no Kenny Burrell - Freedom.  Sigh.

[Pim]

24 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Still no Kenny Burrell - Freedom.  Sigh.

Nah and no Hutch as well. They said Spiral, Medina and Total Eclipse were selected….. I still miss my favorite Morgan’s as well in both series: Tom Cat, The Gigolo, The Procastrinator and the Last Album.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Pim said:

I really don't understand why they selected this record by Chet Baker.

Apparently it has always been one to be selected:

[Pim]

57 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Apparently it has always been one to be selected:

Sorry Jim I don’t understand what you mean, probably the language barrier. That’s a different record isn’t it?

[sidewinder]

2 hours ago, porcy62 said:

Very happy for Demon’s Dance, if I will remember to buy in October 😊

Yes, that one and ‘Slow Drag’ will be on my list. Possibles for some of the rest, including the Hill. My shelves are full !

’Demon’s Dance’ Liberty in good condition without cutout always seems to be elusive.

Edited January 14, 2023 by sidewinder

[JSngry]

41 minutes ago, Pim said:

That’s a different record isn’t it?

I don't know, maybe it is? All Chet Baker records "sound alike" to me after a while.

[Pim]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I don't know, maybe it is? All Chet Baker records "sound alike" to me after a while.

Okay different strokes for different or what’s that saying?

anyway this is the one that is getting reissued:

https://www.discogs.com/master/292892-Chet-Baker-Sings-And-Plays-With-Bud-Shank-Russ-Freeman-And-Strings

[danasgoodstuff]

5 hours ago, Pim said:

Nah and no Hutch as well. They said Spiral, Medina and Total Eclipse were selected….. I still miss my favorite Morgan’s as well in both series: Tom Cat, The Gigolo, The Procastrinator and the Last Album.

Hutch is on the Big John Patton Let It Roll, which is lovely.

[Pim]

5 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Hutch is on the Big John Patton Let It Roll, which is lovely.

Yeah I know he is but I am talking about leader dates. Let Em Roll is a fine date but not worth the Tone Poet price to me. 

[unitstructures]

Definitely looking forward to Let Em Roll!

[Dub Modal]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:04 PM, Pim said:

Okay different strokes for different or what’s that saying?

anyway this is the one that is getting reissued:

https://www.discogs.com/master/292892-Chet-Baker-Sings-And-Plays-With-Bud-Shank-Russ-Freeman-And-Strings

I've never seen that Baker album before and am surprised to see it's got 32 different releases/reissues; although no legit LP since the Japanese '91 issue. After that, a slew of gray market issues. For whatever reason, this album sells apparently. Wondering if sales figures plus "rescuing" this potentially popular album from Andorra with a proper reissue are key motivators? 

[Kevin Bresnahan]

54 minutes ago, Dub Modal said:

I've never seen that Baker album before and am surprised to see it's got 32 different releases/reissues; although no legit LP since the Japanese '91 issue. After that, a slew of gray market issues. For whatever reason, this album sells apparently. Wondering if sales figures plus "rescuing" this potentially popular album from Andorra with a proper reissue are key motivators? 

It could be because "Chet Baker Sings" was in the first batch of Tone Poet LPs and Blue Note couldn't seem to keep it in stock. I certainly don't understand that one. But then again, I was never much of a fan of Baker's vocals to begin with.

[sidewinder]

A bit ‘after the event’ but I have copies of ‘Contours’, ‘My Conception’ and ‘New Wine Old Bottles’ on their way. A bit of a catch-up.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Since I'm pretty sure my post will get removed, I've decided to drop a comment here for posterity. This is a continuing disagreement I've had with someone named Dean R who claims that he has a copy of the master used to cut "Passing Ships" and that this master has the same distortion. This LP played back with major distortion with 2 out of 3 of my cartridges on my two turntables. I was able to get a clean playback when I switched to a much heavier tracking cartridge.

Dean R said:

Apologies, either I haven't been clear or you have misunderstood me.
When the mix was done it was run off to an analogue tape, and also saved as a digital file.
I have a WAV of the raw mix used for the Tone Poet master, before mastering.
There is no doubt from listening to that that there is distortion on the saxophone as recorded.
And to me it is clear that in mastering for both the Tone Poet that it has been toned down, but to my ears it is still there (but that could be confirmation bias as I know it is there).
However it is also clear that in the mix done for the original CD that sax is either mixed or mastered in such away to negate the distortion.
It isn't obvious unless you've heard the new mix that really does present what is on the tape, but once you have heard that, it is clear that it has been messed with in some way.
Again as far as I'm concerned none of this really matters, all three versions that I have sound great. But if you are hearing the distortion and you don't like it, that is of course a problem.

My reply:

And again you seem to miss that some people can play the Tone Poet of "Passing Ships" without any distortion at all. If anyone can play it back without distortion, then there is no distortion on the master used to cut it.

It can't be any clearer than this: If there is any distortion on a master tape, all playback media will have that distortion. All CDs will have that distortion. All LP cuts will play back with that distortion. You cannot undo distortion by changing your VTF.

Look at Art Blakey's "The Witch Doctor" session. There is mic overload on the drums. That mic overload is clearly on the master tape as it shows up on every LP & every CD of this session. Nothing can be done to remove it.

If your analog tape copy of the master of "Passing Ships" has distortion, that simply means that whoever made that tape had the recording levels set too high. I'm sure that anyone who has ever made a cassette dub knows that those recording levels matter and if you overload the input, you get distortion.

 

 

[sidewinder]

No problems for me playing ‘Passing Ships’ with a Dynavector MC cartridge set at 2.0g.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

10 minutes ago, sidewinder said:

No problems for me playing ‘Passing Ships’ with a Dynavector MC cartridge set at 2.0g.

I only heard the distortion with my 2 Ortofon 2M Black cartridges. When I switched to my back up cart, a Denon 110th Anniversary DL-103 cartridge, which tracks at almost double the VTF of the 2M Black, it played back fine.

Therefore, there is no distortion on that master tape!! You cannot undo distortion! It's just not possible. You can certainly make that distortion play back perfectly, but you cannot adjust it away.

BTW - this also means that the distortion I was hearing was being induced by my cartridge. Yes. I say that is true. I've never denied this. It is my setup. But this same setup has played back THOUSANDS of records without any issues. This means that my setup is fine except when playing back one of Kevin Gray's super-hot cuts. I cannot play it back with my regular setup.

I should be able to.

That's all.

And before anyone asks, I sent it to Lon months ago and his turntable is playing it fine so everyone is happy.

I just wish Blue Note would admit that it's a hot cut to stop all of these armchair quarterbacks from trying to tell me it's not a hot cut so it must be my setup. My setup is fine.

[Pim]

No issues with that one for me either.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

8 hours ago, Pim said:

No issues with that one for me either.

And I have no problem with this. But at least you're not saying, "No issues with that for me, so it must be your turntable setup", which seems to be the mantra over at the Hoffman forums.

I get that people can play this without issue. Heck, I could play it when I swapped my cartridge. What I don't get is when someone tries to tell me that my $700 Ortofon cartridge on my $1,000 Denon turntable is the problem. I have played thousands of records on that setup without any overload on any other LPs, including the infamous "hot cut" Led Zeppelin II cut by Bob Ludwig. My setup is fine.

FWIW, I own Hi-Fi News Analogue Test LP and both of my turntable setups pass the "torture test" tracks and play a majority of the anti-skate tests without distortion.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Look at this word salad from Dean in response to my last post...

[QUOTE="Dean R, post: 31509131, member: 43842"]Oh bless you.

There is no natural way to transfer the mix to digital - almost certainly done as the mix was being created and transferred to analogue - that would create a distortion in the saxophone alone.

But why don't I say that I'm sure your knowledge is far greater than mine in the world of transferring analogue tapes to digital, and you can continue to put this as being due to peoples' ears imagining the exact same distortion on their records as is present on my WAV in the same place. I mean that's a bit of a coincidence, but what do I know?

I mean feel free to reply, but honestly there's no need to add in the extra emphasis via italics, I already know that you think people are imagining this.

But finally there is distortion on all master tapes - that's what noise is. Mastering engineers then work to translate that distortion into a pleasurable listening experience. If you don't think they can tone down unwanted distortion, you have clearly never spent any time with old tapes, working with a top level mastering engineer.[/QUOTE]

My response was:

I heard this distortion on my Tone Poet LP when I played it on either of my turntables, both setup with Ortofon 2M Black cartridges. It was not imagined. It was very real.

Because of the comments here, I swapped in my backup cartridge, a Denon DL-103, and the record played fine without any distortion. (Yes, those italics are for emphasis). If this distortion is present on the master as you claim and this distorted signal was then cut onto our records, every single turntable would play this back with that distortion. The fact that we can make it go away by tweaking our playback system means that it's not cut onto this LP.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For those of you following this here... and I know it's weird doing this here and not staying over there (I still think I'll be scrubbed out of that thread over there soon), does everyone here get what I'm saying or am I the one being obtuse?

And a question I have for you here on the big O board that I don't think I can ask over there is: What does he mean by "There is no natural way to transfer the mix to digital - almost certainly done as the mix was being created and transferred to analogue - that would create a distortion in the saxophone alone."

"no natural way to transfer the mix to digital"?? That is just dumb. The analog stereo master was created by mixing the 8 analog channels. Once that analog stereo master is done, it's really quite simple to transfer that stereo mix to digital. It's done every single time a digital CD master is made from an analog stereo tape. I don't get what he is saying here at all.

[jazzbo]

I think he is saying that there is no real tested way of transferring to digital that would cause distortion in the sound of the saxophone alone. If distortion were caused by a transfer the sonic character of the distortion would be more than one instrument specific.