Blue Note's TONE POET series.

[jazzbo]

1 hour ago, sidewinder said:

All Hell breaking loose on the Hoffmann Board due to this ‘Picture of Heath’ issue. I’m curious to get hold of a copy just to see if my deck comes up trumps !

I would say "All Hell breaking loose" is not an accurate description of what is going on there.

[J.A.W.]

Had to sell my LPs back in 1995 and never looked back, and reading about all the problems with very expensive LP reissues over the last few years I'm glad I didn't.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

57 minutes ago, Brad said:

That’s completely effed up. Glad I have the cd. Too bad that instead of talking about a great recording, people are left with a sour experience. 

This is not a new thing. There have been several hot cuts that have given quite a few turntables trouble during playback. The only difference is that this time Blue Note actually admitted it but they made it quite clear it's the buyer's problem, not theirs.

It's why I stopped buying Blue Note's new LPs before others report on the audio. I am not dropping another $28 (Classic Vinyl) or $39 (Tone Poet) on a record that won't play on my turntable.

[Eric]

On 11/8/2022 at 11:30 PM, BFrank said:

Cool! He has quite a following. And celebrating his 1,000th video tomorrow with a live YouTube conversation.

He's one of my oldest friends. We were roommates in college.

That is cool!  Yes I enjoy him as well.  I like his style - knowledgeable but doesn't take himself too seriously.

[Brad]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

This is not a new thing. There have been several hot cuts that have given quite a few turntables trouble during playback. The only difference is that this time Blue Note actually admitted it but they made it quite clear it's the buyer's problem, not theirs.

It's why I stopped buying Blue Note's new LPs before others report on the audio. I am not dropping another $28 (Classic Vinyl) or $39 (Tone Poet) on a record that won't play on my turntable.

I haven’t been purchasing any TPs lately, not because of quality issues, but because I have on cd the records they’ve been issuing and I don’t see the point of duplication, even though they may sound a little better. I’ve actually purchased more Classics for that reason and I haven’t had any quality issues. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Brad

[Mark Stryker]

I've bought a bunch of the Tone Poets and am glad to have done so, but this photo-illustration, sent to me by a friend, does capture a vibe that's out there. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[Chuck Nessa]

Why not buy new music instead of duplicating music already in your collection?

[Mark Stryker]

1 hour ago, Chuck Nessa said:

Why not buy new music instead of duplicating music already in your collection?

Some of these reissues are, in fact, new music to my collection in that I've never previously owned copies of them; and some of them represent real upgrades in sound quality over copies that I've had since I was a kid. And I still continue to buy significant amounts of newly recorded music. I feel confident in saying that I'm pulling my weight as a consumer across the board when it come to recorded music. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[sidewinder]

5 hours ago, jazzbo said:

I would say "All Hell breaking loose" is not an accurate description of what is going on there.

Lost in translation somewhere mid Atlantic. ‘Ruffled a few feathers’ then. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by sidewinder

[soulpope]

Even worse are new "vinyl only" archival released, where material is omitted/edited to fit the format (Transversales Disques come to my mind) .... and still facing the risk of pressing quality issues ...

[Daniel A]

8 hours ago, sidewinder said:

I’m curious to get hold of a copy just to see if my deck comes up trumps !

I think I own only one Tone Poet release, but this thought has occurred to me as well! 🙂

[jazzbo]

3 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Lost in translation somewhere mid Atlantic. ‘Ruffled a few feathers’ then. 

Ruffled some feathers there perhaps, none of mine. It just seems more like a tempest in a teapot than hell breaking loose.

[Dub Modal]

5 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

I've bought a bunch of the Tone Poets and am glad to have done so, but this photo-illustration, sent to me by a friend, does capture a vibe that's out there. 

Not sure that meme really hits its target. BN's reissues among the 80/Classic/TP editions has helped bring prices down on those Japanese pressings. And "flawless" is a strong word lol. They've also arguably helped elevate jazz reissues across the board, and possibly helped people - "hipsters" among them - get into jazz. Which is a good thing. I'd say that the BN reissue program has been a net positive. 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, Dub Modal said:

Not sure that meme really hits its target. BN's reissues among the 80/Classic/TP editions has helped bring prices down on those Japanese pressings. And "flawless" is a strong word lol. They've also arguably helped elevate jazz reissues across the board, and possibly helped people - "hipsters" among them - get into jazz. Which is a good thing. I'd say that the BN reissue program has been a net positive. 

Has prices for Japanese pressings really come down? I haven't seen much evidence of that myself, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. And while the mastering of Tone Poets might (sometimes) be superior, my personal experience from (many) Japanese vinyl releases from the 70s up to the 2000s is that they win out from a production values perspective.

[sidewinder]

56 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Has prices for Japanese pressings really come down? I haven't seen much evidence of that myself, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. And while the mastering of Tone Poets might (sometimes) be superior, my personal experience from (many) Japanese vinyl releases from the 70s up to the 2000s is that they win out from a production values perspective.

Yeah, I’ve yet to be convinced too that the Japanese pressings are significantly inferior. Most of them sound pretty good to me. The London Jazz Collector site certainly seems to indicate TP significantly better than King. Surface noise and crackles rarely an issue with the Japan pressings.

I have a number of TPs and some of these duplicate NY/Liberty originals. Although both are good, I don’t think I’ve heard one yet where I can say the TP is definitely superior in sound. At least, for my preferences. In fact, I generally prefer the sound of the originals, even with RVGs compression.

I’ve avoided reported ‘warbling’ titles such Black Fire. Passing Ships played OK on my deck but that might be thanks to the unipivot arm and setup care required.

Edited December 27, 2022 by sidewinder

[Dub Modal]

I'm not arguing SQ between JP and TP pressings, but from what I've seen online and in person, prices of Kings have dropped a bit if a TP also exists. I like them both FTR. I'll definitely side with TP over a Toshiba however. 

[Pim]

My copy of Picture of Heath Skipped heavily on side 2. Never experienced that before. Sent it back and not even gonna try a new copy. Part from this one ive had only good TP experiences. But if there’s a Japanese issue available for less money I jump on that one. As a matter of fact I just ordered Sonny Clark’s Leapin and Lopin plus Jackie McLeans Right Now and Let Freedom Ring from Japan as I am not wanting to wait if they might be selected for the series. I love the sound of Japanese vinyl.

[sonnymax]

13 hours ago, bresna said:

This is not a new thing. There have been several hot cuts that have given quite a few turntables trouble during playback. The only difference is that this time Blue Note actually admitted it but they made it quite clear it's the buyer's problem, not theirs...

Blue Note's Facebook "admission":

“We’re aware of the complaints about the Tone Poet Vinyl Edition of Chet Baker & Art Pepper “Picture of Heath” from some customers who are experiencing skipping on side two, while for most it plays fine. We’ve looked into it and have determined there is no defect with the pressing. It is however a very dynamic recording and Joe Harley & Kevin Gray don’t use any limiting or compression in their mastering approach. That can expose the need for some adjustments to be made with particular turntable set-ups. For instance, we’ve found that customers who adjusted their tracking force and anti-skate (even slightly reducing both), and made sure their turntable is level, no longer had playback issues. We hope this helps!”

YOU WANT A TONE POET? YOU WANT A TONE POET? YOUR TT CAN'T HANDLE A TONE POET!!!

Edited December 27, 2022 by sonnymax

[Dan Gould]

LMAO

[Brad]

What I find a bit amusing is that some listeners felt the need to create a separate thread because they wanted to keep the TP thread positive. Seriously?

[Pim]

yeah the whole idolization of BLue Note, Tone Poets, Kevin Gray is pretty ridiculous over there. Thy shall not say anything negative about them. This is clearly a huge pressing defect. No way I am paying 50 euros! for a record that skips and than be told it's my turntable that's the real problem.....

[Teasing the Korean]

1 hour ago, sonnymax said:

“We’re aware of the complaints about the Tone Poet Vinyl Edition of Chet Baker & Art Pepper “Picture of Heath” from some customers who are experiencing skipping on side two, while for most it plays fine. We’ve looked into it and have determined there is no defect with the pressing. It is however a very dynamic recording and Joe Harley & Kevin Gray don’t use any limiting or compression in their mastering approach. That can expose the need for some adjustments to be made with particular turntable set-ups. For instance, we’ve found that customers who adjusted their tracking force and anti-skate (even slightly reducing both), and made sure their turntable is level, no longer had playback issues. We hope this helps!”

In other words:  "Our pressings are so good, they reveal the limitations of your stereo system.  So if our product sounds bad, it is a reflection of how good it truly is."

Edited December 27, 2022 by Teasing the Korean

[Eric]

2 hours ago, Pim said:

My copy of Picture of Heath Skipped heavily on side 2. Never experienced that before. Sent it back and not even gonna try a new copy. Part from this one ive had only good TP experiences. But if there’s a Japanese issue available for less money I jump on that one. As a matter of fact I just ordered Sonny Clark’s Leapin and Lopin plus Jackie McLeans Right Now and Let Freedom Ring from Japan as I am not wanting to wait if they might be selected for the series. I love the sound of Japanese vinyl.

Hey Pim - if you don't mind sharing, what is your source for Japanese vinyl?  Thanks

[Pim]

5 hours ago, Eric said:

Hey Pim - if you don't mind sharing, what is your source for Japanese vinyl?  Thanks

Sure Eric.

https://www.recordcity.jp/ is my favorite. Prices are very, very reasonable. A lot of times below the Discogs median price and description is accurate plus there are photos of the product. They have a flat shipping rate trough FedEX and shipping mostly takes a maximum of 5 days from Japan to the Netherlands. 
 

I also order from: https://www.discogs.com/user/ella_records

very decent store. Accurate description and friendly service. 

Also:

https://www.discogs.com/user/madpierrot
 

bit of a weirdo who doesn’t communicate at all. But mostly under grades the condition of his records and asks a fair price. Have bought some beautiful and rare records from him. 
 

Always ask them to set invoice value low as you have to pay a lot of import fees and it could get very expensive. Trough Discogs this is now only possible on 150+ dollar orders.

in my experience ordering from Japan could be very interesting from financial perspective but only with very large orders to keep shipping costs low. This is how I buy records now mostly: instead of ordering 3 or 4 records a month I now save money every month and spend it all at once and make a big order. 
 

Interested to hear if they sell anything interesting for you Eric

[Daniel A]

Concerning what makes a pressing "defective", is there some sort of formal standard - like "Redbook" for compact discs - for vinyl LPs? I'm thinking that groove width and depth, frequency response, dynamic range and so on are all quantifiable. Or can you produce an unplayable record and still promote the product as an LP?