New Hank Mobley Blue Note Set

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

If I knew exactly how they were going to master it and they truly do what they purport- i mean theyre not gonna be like the xrcd soul station.........

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Malcolm Addey has mastered many Blue Note CDs already so you know how it's going to sound. To my (old) ears, he seems to go for a more neutral sound. I don't hear a lot of EQ going on like some mastering engineers. I think he's a lot like Ron McMaster in this regard.

[David Ayers]

1 hour ago, bresna said:

Malcolm Addey has mastered many Blue Note CDs already so you know how it's going to sound. To my (old) ears, he seems to go for a more neutral sound. I don't hear a lot of EQ going on like some mastering engineers. I think he's a lot like Ron McMaster in this regard.

Probably have a fairly dry clear sound like those BN Mosaics of the past. 
 

I’m remembering why I sold my 1989 issues of NRFS, Turnaround, and SNF. The two originally issued albums (as heard in the RVG issues) were so much stronger. People may not know that the 1989 issues contained the original four dates in (something like) recording sequence - as given in the discography of the new set, but not as presented there. 

[Shrdlu]

Continuing with comments about the three CDs, I felt that the RVG mastering is quite reasonable. The McMaster does not compare well with the RVG: the bass is too "boomy", but it can be rolled off, and it will do. To me, Freddie Hubbard was not the right fit for Hank's style and Lee Morgan works better. Hank's intonation is normally spot on, but he's sharp on "The Good Life" - pull the mouthpiece off about 1/8", man.

The titles are wrong on the July 17, 1966 session. We are presented with

tk 3 Straight, No Filter, tk 14 Chain Reaction, tk 15 Soft Impressions

The item labeled "Chain Reaction" is obviously "Soft Impressions". The melody of "Impressions" is actually quoted. So, the other two titles need to be linked to takes 3 and 15. I have no way of knowing which is which. I doubt that McCoy Tyner would remember, it having been recorded so long ago.

 

[David Ayers]

Here’s one of the earlier discussions of SNF:

 

 

[sidewinder]

4 hours ago, bresna said:

Malcolm Addey has mastered many Blue Note CDs already so you know how it's going to sound. To my (old) ears, he seems to go for a more neutral sound. I don't hear a lot of EQ going on like some mastering engineers. I think he's a lot like Ron McMaster in this regard.

Big fan of Malcolm Addey . I’m usually quite happy with Mr McMaster’s issues too.

[Bluesnik]

1 hour ago, sidewinder said:

Big fan of Malcolm Addey . I’m usually quite happy with Mr McMaster’s issues too.

Same here.

[Rooster_Ties]

3 hours ago, Shrdlu said:

To me, Freddie Hubbard was not the right fit for Hank's style and Lee Morgan works better.

I would agree that Lee Morgan is a better fit, though I don't think Freddie Hubbard was really all that far off.  That said, and on a related topic...

…I'm sure one could make the argument that Andrew Hill wasn't really the best fit with Hank either (the session of 2-OCT-1963, with Lee Morgan - released in full as the McMaster 1989 edition of No Room For Squares).

But I really enjoy that session with Hill, not because its such a 'great fit' (because it isn't really) -- but it's interesting to hear Hank playing in a context that isn't so sympathetic.  It's not like Hank being on a real Hill leader-date, but it is a little bit like that now and then.

It's a little like how it would be hard to argue that Kenny Dorham was the best fit to play with Andrew Hill -- and yet, it's really quite interesting to hear Dorham with Andrew on Joe Henderson's Our Thing, and also Hill's own Point of Departure.

I imagine Hank would have been especially good if Hill had attempted another Grass Roots type session -- perhaps even better than the results of that No Room For Squares session, actually.

Food for thought, anyway.

[Shrdlu]

Tom, that's an excellent post. Bulletin board at its best.

I hasten to add that I'm a big fan of Freddie Hubbard. "Ready For Freddie" is my favorite of his albums.

I have a great pic of Lee and Hank sharing a joke at a club table, each holding his horn, but I can't post it here. There are, of course, plenty of recorded examples of them together.

It IS an apparently odd choice, to have Andrew Hill at the October, 1963 session, but he "behaves himself", and it works. Of course, having Philly Joe kicking you along, and Lee on trumpet, helps.

I vividly remember the time, in the late 60s, when a friend brought new LPs of Andrew Hill around: "Judgment" and "Point Of Departure". I was very impressed. I was very surprised to see Kenny Dorham on what was an experimental album, having only heard him on late 40s air-shots with Bird. (I was young at the time, and knew nothing of Kenny's post-Bird recordings.) It certainly worked, of course.

A later, perhaps unexpected, pairing is Harold Land with Bobby Hutcherson.

The mislabeled track to which I referred is the very long one, 10:59 as I recall. That is the only sure way to specify it. Simple error when the original compositions were registered. ("Bumstead! You're fired!)

[Shrdlu]

Further thoughts on Andrew Hill at the October 63 session. He was only just coming into the ken of Afred Lion and Frank Wolff, and probably felt that he should play conventionally, as much as he could . As most of you may know, Alfred and Frank became fascinated with him and let him play what he wanted. So, we got the quartet session with Joe Henderson, and then the dam burst open with that session with the two basses. He was going full-bore by then. Then we have the lovely quartet album with Bobby Hutcherson and Elvin Jones (I love "Siete Ocho", in 7/4), and then, ..., that masterpiece, "Point Of Departure". I have the Mosaic set and several other Hill sessions, but I 've never bothered with them, apart from the session with Freddie Hubbard and Joe Henderson (which I had on a double LP in the mid-70s), and "Grass Roots" stands out. It benefits from Ron Carter's lovely sound. An album along those lines would indeed have been nice: with (as you said, Tom) Hank Mobley, or Stanley Turrentine, or other tenor players.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Shrdlu said:

A later, perhaps unexpected, pairing is Harold Land with Bobby Hutcherson.

Geography, bro, geography.

That, and Harold was wanting to go there already.

[jazzbo]

I got the Mobley set in this afternoon. I won't have time for a while to really listen but I compared "There's a Lull in my Life" (a tune I really like from the Ellington versions) between this new set and the most recent Japanese cd release (which.I preferred to the earlier US cd). The sound between the two were very close, which is a good thing! Really nice mastering.

I think I may be getting another copy of this box set though. I was unsure that I had pre-ordered a set and with the frustrating week plus long difficulty of spelling that out with Mosaic this month fresh in my mind I ordered another one a week ago. This one I received seems to be from an earlier order. Sigh. Well, it won't go to waste.

Edited December 21, 2019 by jazzbo

[Shrdlu]

That's a nice tune, Lon. I have it on the Japanese "LT" CD.

Getting back to the three CD discussion, the tracks from the June 17, 1966 session do not belong with the leftover tracks from the sessions of 3/7/63, 10/2/63 and 2/5/65. That is not an issue in the Mosaic set, but the new set does perpetuate the incorrect titles from 6/17/66, and the tracks from 2/5/65 are in the wrong order again, and the alternates from 10/2/63 are in the wrong place - not even on the same CD as the originally released versions. Bad dog! It took me a while to unscramble the mess from the four CDs.

An LP, titled "A Slice Of The Top", BST 84241, was planned, but not released. Oddly, it didn't include the tune with that title. It uses three tracks from the enlarged group (3/18/66) and the three items from 6/17/66, which have the same rhythm section and were recorded to finalize the planned LP. I have assembled it as follows (with, almost certainly, the correct titles - I am including the track times, for positive identification).

Side 1

1. Hank's Other Bag (7:15)

2. Straight, No Filter (4:43)

3. A Touch Of Blue (8:48)

Side 2

1. Soft Impressions (10:57)

2. There's A Lull In My Life (5:26)

3. Chain Reaction (5:53)

This sets together real well, as a showcase for Hank and Lee, with the same rhythm section throughout (McCoy Tyner, Bob Cranshaw and Billy Higgins).

Edited December 27, 2019 by Shrdlu

[jazzbo]

I guess I'm not bothered much by these issues. This Mobley Mosaic is excellent. It's so nice to have these with consistent excellent transfers and consistent excellent mastering. It's fun to go through these sessions again in this way. And the booklet has many interesting session photos.

[Shrdlu]

That's pretty much how I feel, Lon.

Having consistent mastering is certainly a plus, and I'm glad (but not surprised) to hear that it is good in the new set. Prior to this set, it has been mix and match, nearly all good though.

Are there any new photos? Recently, I came by what seems to be the entire Frank Wolff collection. I forget where it was (the Mosaic site, maybe).

I just played my custom "Slice Of The Top" CD, and it goes well in that order. Lee's "Delightfulee" LP has the same plan: medium-sized band sprinkled in with some quintet tracks.

[jazzbo]

A number of photos I have not seen before in the booklet. Really a nice set overall.

[JSngry]

6 hours ago, Shrdlu said:

An LP, titled "A Slice Of The Top", BST 84241, was planned, but not released. Oddly, it didn't include the tune with that title. It uses three tracks from the enlarged group (3/18/66) and the three items from 6/17/66, which have the same rhythm section and were recorded to finalize the planned LP. I have assembled it as follows (with, almost certainly, the correct titles - I am including the track times, for positive identification).

Side 1

1. Hank's Other Bag (7:15)

2. Straight, No Filter (4:43)

3. A Touch Of Blue (8:48)

Side 2

1. Soft Impressions (10:57)

2. There's A Lull In My Life (5:26)

3. Chain Reaction (5:53)

Where is this actually confirmed?

[danasgoodstuff]

 

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Where is this actually confirmed?

Cuscuna's discography, I believe, which is plagiarized here:

https://www.jazzdisco.org/blue-note-records/catalog-4200-series/

[Shrdlu]

Yes, I noticed in that discography that three titles from the 3/18/66 session were selected for an LP to be titled "A Slice Of The Top". The 6/17/66 session was designed to finish the LP. So there is no doubt about the contents of the album, and the pieces fit together perfectly, because Lee, Hank and the rhythm section are on all of them. The late 90s CD served a purpose at the time, but it is a hodge-podge of leftovers.

[mikeweil]

The Blue Note listings on jazzdisco.org are not complete, missing some alternates and tracks released on later issues. This is because they belong to those worshipping the "original LP", which was not always the optimal way of releasing the music nor listing the session's music. Blue Note LP fetishism ....

The hodge podge started with the strange decision to use only part of the tracks from Mobley's three 1963 sessions and scatter them over two LPs, The Turnaround and No Room For Squares. When Cuscuna found the unissued tracks he released three of them on Straight No Filter with the three 1966 quintet tracks. The larger band tracks from A Slice Of The Top he had already issued in complete from in the LT series. That was replicated on a CD of the same title.

Then there were the CDs which kept the 1963 quintet session intact, but added the three Straight No Filter quintet tracks and even used that title, which is somewhat misleading. I think these sessions sound best in recording order. That is why I will keep those CDs and probably skip the big box. With older music listening to a series of alternates can be boring, but with these sessions recording oder is best, IMHO. Blue Note LP fetishism can lead you to strange decisions. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by mikeweil

[Shrdlu]

I also prefer session order, at this point. I hardly ever play a CD in its given order. But it has been interesting to hear the proposed "Slice Of The Top" album, and I never played the late 90s CD as is. It fits together well.

I have always disliked the Prestige CD arrangement, in the "Original Jazz Classics"  series. The Prestige LPs, back in the day, often scattered sessions over several LPs. It was a mess, especially the Miles and Trane material, and the CD era was a great opportunity to unravel everything. Of course, there were the "complete" sets, and, unlike Blue Note, the mastering was good right from the start.

The online Blue Note Discography Project is extremely helpful, but, as you say, Mike, it omits recent CD reissues (mainly Japanese), some of which have tracks issued for the first time. I have sent them a few updates, which have been ignored. They did correct the "alto clarinet" to "contra-alto clarinet", though, which was an annoying error, but a celeste keeps being listed as a harpsicord 

[JSngry]

How dumb it would have been to have not released Slice whole.

[jazzbo]

What's interesting to me is the sound of this set. It says that Malcolm Addey did the mastering from transfers, implying he did not do transfers from the original tapes. Interestingly I compared a few of the sessions here to the recent Japanese releases and the sound is similar, with EQ choices being slightly different. It seems that perhaps Universal has been transferring the Blue Note material systematically and the transfers have been used in Japan this decade, and the few reissues from the US, as I have read surmised (by Bernie Grundman is the guess). If so I can see why that makes this an attractive prospect for Mosaic, as well as the upcoming Lee Morgan--they have transfers available to work with.

[Clunky]

Anyone in the UK or simply outside of US received a shipping notice?

I’ve heard nothing since preordering months ago. 

[sidewinder]

1 minute ago, Clunky said:

Anyone in the UK or simply outside of US received a shipping notice?

I’ve heard nothing since preordering months ago. 

Nothing heard yet on my order.