A Bachelor's Guide to Sauter-Finegan

[JSngry]

We got the fifers, we got the pipers, we got the lifers, we got the vipers...where is Faye Dunaway, please?

[Teasing the Korean]

And so we continue our bachelor's Sauter-Finegan odyssey with an album that isn't quite Sauter-Finegan.

Liebermann:  Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra - RCA LM 1888.

Cover art:  Moderne abstract painting

Now drinking:  Strong black tea with orange blossom honey

I have two recordings of this oddity, comprising side 1 of the RCA Red Seal LP being discussed, and this is my favorite among the two.  Our heroes' band is  paired with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, under the baton of Fritz Reiner.

While this piece should appeal to me in theory - more or less a twelve-tone composition blending jazz orchestra and symphony orchestra - it doesn't quite do it for me.  It starts out promising, and every time I play it, I think to myself, "I'm gonna like it this time," but it never holds together enough to keep my attention.  This is the kind of piece that a university professor of jazz composition would probably praise for its "architecture," but I will take Jerry Goldsmith's "jazz" scores for The Twilight Zone over this any day.  On the other hand, there is not the slightest hint of Doodletown to be found.  

The execution, as you would expect, is dead on. 

Side 2, Richard Strauss's Don Juan, has no Sauter-Finegan involvement. 

EDIT:  I just re-listened, and I truly liked it more this time than I ever have before.  I am either getting  more mature or more forgiving in my musical assessments.

Enjoy!

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Teasing the Korean

[Teasing the Korean]

About 20 years ago, a friend of mine bought a high-end record cleaning machine by VPI.  I had never known of these things.  He swore by it, but I was skeptical.  "Tell you what," he said.  "Do you have a record that you can't get clean?  Bring it over and I'll show you."  And without missing a beat, I knew which album would be my test subject.

It was a second-hand LP I'd picked up some years before, with a pervasive layer of mystery substance.  I'd tried to clean it, but the job was clearly beyond the ability of my $19.99 Discwasher. 

So my friend cleaned the LP on the VPI, and I was truly amazed.  It was virtually stone mint after the yuck had been removed.  The experience inspired me to buy my own record cleaning machine, though I chose a Nitty Gritty.  It quickly paid for itself after I'd cleaned and unloaded on eBay a few scarce thrift store acquisitions.

So what was that album that my friend's VPI brought back from the brink on that fateful day 20 years ago? It was - as you may have guessed by now - the next entry in our Bachelor's Guide to Sauter-Finegan.

Under Analysis - RCA LPM 1341.

Cover art:  Humorous color photograph, featuring musical instruments lying on a psychiatrist's couch, while our heroes stand by methodically jotting down notes.

Now drinking:  a 2016 Sauvignon Blanc from Napa

The concept here is that our heroes take classic big band arrangements of tunes, and use them as a jumping off points for their own interpretations. Maybe knowing the originals provides more of a context, but as big band music is not my forte, I am taking these arrangements at face value. 

Side 1:

Avalon -  Uptempo, with lots of percussion and bells playing countermelodies. Space for solos.  I like this.  Space-age and swinging. "Space-age and swinging" - That sounds like an RCA above-logo phrase, does it not?

Chant of Weed - Again, percussion, this time wood blocks.  Moody and slow with lots of whole-tone action.  Space for soloing along with nice ensemble work.   This is great, typifying what I love about space-age bachelor pad music. 

Star Dust - The mysterious Bobby Nichols is featured on trumpet.  Oh, no, it's a vocal number, the ubiquitous Andy Roberts again.  Incidentally, I have nothing against vocals.  It's just that sudden appearances of lyrics in an otherwise instrumental program jerk you from a dream state into the literal.

Got a Date with an Angel - The harp is in the lead.  A horrible intro with vocals.  This one lands someplace between 1950s moderne space-age and Doodletown.  I can't tell if I love it or hate it.  Or both.  OK, I think I'm starting to like it.  

Rockin' Chair - It's starting out as a ballad.  I've never heard it this slow.  Trombone in the lead, harp behind it.  After the first 8 bars, it kicks into a slow groove with some nice ensemble work behind the trombone. 

Liza - Uptempo, brassy, and loud.  The lead switches every 8 bars to different novel combinations of instruments.  This is like serious big band Esquivel, but with more jazz cred.  Trombone solo in the middle. Rugolo-esque space age percussive accents behind the solo.  This is killer.  The ending is a little bombastic for my taste, but you can't have everything.

Side 2

Thinking of You - Mid-tempo swing.  Ensemble work with bassoon and low-register marimba providing counter melodies.  Twinkly bridge.  Now some alto flute in the last 8.  Crazy, brassy buildup into the second chorus.  God, I love this.  

In a Mist - Well, the tune speaks for itself.  The lead is taken by the marimba, played by, of course, Joe Venuto.  Again, gorgeous ensemble work.  Lots of shifting colors. 

I Get a Kick Out of You - Andy is back on vocals.  Loud, big, and brassy.  Andy is afraid to sing about cocaine.  It sounds like they are mildly riffing on Sinatra's version, but with a full-band blast where Nelson did only a kick drum. And they don't do the half-step modulation at the coda, like Frank and Nelson.  An OK track, but unnecessary, especially since Sinatra had already released the definitive reading.

It's a Lonesome Old Town - Slow and moody, with alto flute, tuba, and interesting ensemble work involving the woodwind section, harp, celesta, oboe, and brass, in varying textures.  OK, a sudden Star Trek-esque brass blast from out of nowhere, followed by a marimba solo with harp in the background.  A tuba solo (!), with lots of interesting colors, at the coda.

How Am I to Know  - Mid-tempo swing, jazzy and space-age. Saxes take the melody in unison, with trumpet supplying an improvised counterpoint, with harp.  Space for soloing. Again, some percussive Rugolo touches behind the solos.  A big, brassy passage, before a more subdued final 8, and then a big ending. 

Overall:  As Meatloaf famously sang, 9 out of 11 ain't bad.  I was not fond of the two vocal numbers, but that is my hang-up, not yours.  Overall, this album is very cool, modern, jazzy, and space-age, more or less at the same time; and, importantly, the Doodletown Index is maintained well within safety levels.  I would recommend this album, without hesitation, to fans of either 1950s ensemble jazz or space-age bachelor pad music. 

I am not finding any of these tracks on the InterTubes.  Does this album really exist, or is it merely an opium-induced vision?

Edited February 2, 2019 by Teasing the Korean

[JSngry]

The album exists. I had a college buddy whose dad was an, uh,,,,opinionated "big band fan", and this album came to school with his son. He tried to hip me to it, but I just couldn't dig all the mallets. To me, it sounded like a novelty band, with really serious players and charts that were harder than they had to be. Now, this guy was really serious about big-band writing, and did some nice arranging of his own while at the school. We never discussed Sauter-Finegan after the one time, but this is the record, Under Analysis, the cover sticks with me to this day. No, I thke that back, I think a few years later, the topic came up somehow, and the dude said something about the charts being corny but amazing, something like that.

I'm still working on the first disc of the 2 CD Jasmine set. I'm not really changing my overall opinion of the S-F Orch, but I am finding more to like there than I had expected. But seldom in one chart, start to finish (sounds like the issue you have with the albums, only for me it's with the charts!). So far, the closest is "Rain" (which is almost all based on "On The Alamo"?), but I think there will be a few others. For real, though, when that sax section plays straight up sax section and isn't off doubling on cute stuff, that is one hell of a section. "Rain" is again what stands out now, but there are some other cuts I'm going to be circling back to that have that thing too. Badass all the way.

It's funny, though, how you get exposed to things without having any control over or awareness of it. Bobby Nichols, his name is very familiar to me, and has been for a long time now. Why? Just because my folks had the old RCA Miller AAF Band box, I think they got it for joining the RCA Record Club or something. And yeah, Bobby Nichols, they got a picture of him in the booklet, they talk about him a tiny bit, something about a redhead whose playing was as fiery as his hair, something like that and he gets a fair amount of solo space. So, yeah, I've been knowing this guy for as long as I started listening to those records voluntarily and reading the book, which goes back to when I was...9? 10? The time passes, I forget all about Bobby Nichols, and now, here he pops bak up again. Crazy!

Same thing with bari players Chuck Gentry (on the same Miller set) & Gene Allen (who was on the Goodman/Moscow band record), they're on records that I randomly got access to at an early-ish age, and age when I could easily know who every player on every record was, because that part of the brain was very uncluttered.

[Big Beat Steve]

You're all way too fast for me again.

TTK, about your ealier question about vinyl sources of the AVID CD, honestly, I am not going to make a definite statement, just try a subjective impression. As I don't have any other versions of the "Adventures in Time" I canot really judge know what exactly they are supposed to sound like in detail, and as the "tonal colors" are all rather different from one track to another it is hard to make sound comparisons as the tunes follow each other. So I did as you suggested and took what must have been the final track on side 1 of the "New directions In Muscic" 10-incher: "Rain" (as it happens) and tried some listening comparison with my vinyl copy of "Inside Sauter-Finegan Revisited" which a reissued many tracks from that 10". My LP is very clean and plays well, but apart from the fact that here (as with many CD reissues) the overall volume of the CD is up compared to LPs and though I'd be quite happy with the LP as it is if I had never happened to buy the CD, I do find the sound of that track on the Avid CD to be brighter and clearer. Hard to describe it in terms that will satisfy the serious musicologists and sound technicians, but the instruments sound more "separate" and more distinctive (you can pick out the brushwork of the drummer more clearly as I sense it, for example), yet they still are "together". The general impression of other tracks goes into the same direction. Whatever it was the remastering engineer did (one Nick Dellow - familiar to anyone?), the results are quite palatable to me. So no complaints from me about this Avid reissue.

Re - "Under Analysis", yes of course the LP exists , and IMHO your assessment nails it, TTK (even to me who may be more familiar with earlier big band versions of the standards). Compared to other (earlier) S-F LPs it is a more straightforward version of their "progressive" approach to big band orchestration and charts swinging in a more direct way. Something that even somebody not on an all-out progressive trip shold find fairly accessible (unless, of course, he is dead bent on sticking with typical late 30s "big band era" sounds)

The Liebermann Concerto is on the Avid reissue too, BTW, but I have not yet listened to it closer.

I'll get around to "Adventures in Time" eventually too but to me it is challenging. It runs a very, very wide gamut -
from the cartoon score-ish "The Jukes Family Take a Holiday" (I can very well imagine this as the background music to an animated plot based on the JIm Flora covers of "Sons of Sauter-Finegan" and Nick Travis' "The Panic is On" )
via the dark and decidedly odd rendition of the "The Minute" poem to a background of various percussion sounds (Salvador Dalì's melting clocks set to music? or still more analogies that would be too long go into here)
to the lighter-hearted uptempo "Swingcussion" that moves along a bit like what the xylophone-based Red Norvo orchestra of the 30s might have sounded like if he had just kept his early orchestra going and evolving into the 50s without moving his style towards a chamber music setting the way he did from the mid-40s onwards.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Big Beat Steve

[Teasing the Korean]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'm still working on the first disc of the 2 CD Jasmine set. I'm not really changing my overall opinion of the S-F Orch, but I am finding more to like there than I had expected. But seldom in one chart, start to finish (sounds like the issue you have with the albums, only for me it's with the charts!). So far, the closest is "Rain" (which is almost all based on "On The Alamo"?), but I think there will be a few others. For real, though, when that sax section plays straight up sax section and isn't off doubling on cute stuff, that is one hell of a section. "Rain" is again what stands out now, but there are some other cuts I'm going to be circling back to that have that thing too. Badass all the way.

From reading your posts, my overall sense is that both you and I gravitate toward the tracks with "serious" content, but that I tend to like the serious stuff wrapped in shiny paper.  And I agree, "Rain" has been one of the standout tracks so far.  I am looking forward to reviewing the re-make on their first UA album, but I won't get ahead of myself.  

1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

You're all way too fast for me again.

TTK, about your ealier question about vinyl sources of the AVID CD, honestly, I am not going to make a definite statement, just try a subjective impression. As I don't have any other versions of the "Adventures in Time" I canot really judge know what exactly they are supposed to sound like in detail, and as the "tonal colors" are all rather different from one track to another it is hard to make sound comparisons as the tunes follow each other. So I did as you suggested and took what must have been the final track on side 1 of the "New directions In Muscic" 10-incher: "Rain" (as it happens) and tried some listening comparison with my vinyl copy of "Inside Sauter-Finegan Revisited" which a reissued many tracks from that 10". My LP is very clean and plays well, but apart from the fact that here (as with many CD reissues) the overall volume of the CD is up compared to LPs and though I'd be quite happy with the LP as it is if I had never happened to buy the CD, I do find the sound of that track on the Avid CD to be brighter and clearer. Hard to describe it in terms that will satisfy the serious musicologists and sound technicians, but the instruments sound more "separate" and more distinctive (you can pick out the brushwork of the drummer more clearly as I sense it, for example), yet they still are "together". The general impression of other tracks goes into the same direction. Whatever it was the remastering engineer did (one Nick Dellow - familiar to anyone?), the results are quite palatable to me. So no complaints from me about this Avid reissue.

Re - "Under Analysis", yes of course the LP exists , and IMHO your assessment nails it, TTK (even to me who may be more familiar with earlier big band versions of the standards). Compared to other (earlier) S-F LPs it is a more straightforward version of their "progressive" approach to big band orchestration and charts swinging in a more direct way. Something that even somebody not on an all-out progressive trip shold find fairly accessible (unless, of course, he is dead bent on sticking with typical late 30s "big band era" sounds)

The Liebermann Concerto is on the Avid reissue too, BTW, but I have not yet listened to it closer.

I'll get around to "Adventures in Time" eventually too but to me it is challenging. It runs a very, very wide gamut -
from the cartoon score-ish "The Jukes Family Take a Holiday" (I can very well imagine this as the background music to an animated plot based on the JIm Flora covers of "Sons of Sauter-Finegan" and Nick Travis' "The Panic is On" ) via the dark and decidedly odd rendition of the "The Minute" poem to a background of various percussion sounds (Salvador Dalì's melting clocks set to music? or still more analogies that would be too long go into here)
to the lighter-hearted uptempo "Swingcussion" that moves along a bit like what the xylophone-based Red Norvo orchestra of the 30s might have sounded like if he had just kept his early orchestra going and evolving into the 50s without moving his style towards a chamber music setting the way he did from the mid-40s onwards.

Thanks.  It may be that they sourced the tracks from vinyl but did a very good job.  I would have to hear it.  

Looking forward to the review of Adventure in Time! 

[Big Beat Steve]

27 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Thanks.  It may be that they sourced the tracks from vinyl but did a very good job.  I would have to hear it. 

I have no way of knowing for sure but my guess is that such a (P.D.) label did use vinyls for the transfers (how would they haved had access to master tapes?) but that they also did some relatively thoughtful remastering on it.

[Teasing the Korean]

25 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

I have no way of knowing for sure but my guess is that such a (P.D.) label did use vinyls for the transfers (how would they haved had access to master tapes?) but that they also did some relatively thoughtful remastering on it.

Some PD labels work with the original labels and use master tapes.  Are there any copyright details on the set you bought?

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Some PD labels work with the original labels and use master tapes.  Are there any copyright details on the set you bought?

Avid Entertainment - (P) and (C) 2017 Avid Ltd.

Compiler: Colin Davey, Remasteirng: Nick Dellow, plus the standard wording of "All rights of the producer and owner of the recorded works reserved"

No mention of RCA.

[JSngry]

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

...to the lighter-hearted uptempo "Swingcussion" that moves along a bit like what the xylophone-based Red Norvo orchestra of the 30s might have sounded like if he had just kept his early orchestra going and evolving into the 50s without moving his style towards a chamber music setting the way he did from the mid-40s onwards.

Eddie Sauter was a contributor to that band's book, so I guess he comes by the whole xylophone thing honestly. It sitll kinda bugs me to hear that instrument in this context, guess I'k still getting the PTSD from "Perry Como's Hot Diggety" that was a regular in my hose at a too young age.

As for Finegan, I remain thankful to Organissimo's Own, Larry Kart, for hipping the population hereabouts to the RCA CD of Tommy Dorsey's post-WWII band playing finigan's charts.

and about the same time, Sauter was writing for Ray McKinley(!)...something else someboady here tipped be off to, last century, maybe?

For me, these cahrts are all quite "progressive" and more importantly, they are coherent works from start to finish. And that's what I'm missing from a lot of the S-F stuff I'm hearing, that lack of focus, too often it seems...I've already used "cler" beofre, so let's get a little less (or more?)  understanding  and call it "gimmicky". It's distracting to me, not exciting.

OTOH, I actually like "Doodletown Fifers". It states its purpose from jump, and keeps that purpose all the way through.

I just gotta wonder how much of S-F was a calculated commercial angle, they had both been writing their asses off for at least a decade and probably weren't getting recognition commiserate with their talents. So maybe, hey, let's put our things together, gimmick it up a little bit and see how it goes? Or maybe they got bit by the Kenton "More Is More" bug. I got no problem with that, really, these were two ginormously gifted cats and lord knows, the early 50s were a dark time to be anywhere in the realm of "popular music"..fast forward another bunch of years to Frank Zappa saying that thing about most people wouldn't recognize real music if it bit them in the ass, and oh btw, meet Ruth Underwood, we gave you "Wowie Zowie", don't say we didn't want you. Xylophone again. I just wonder...

 

 

[JSngry]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 11:29 AM, Teasing the Korean said:

Next Up:

The Sound of the Sauter-Finegan Orchestra - RCA Victor LPM 1009

Cover art:  Cartoon, but unfortunately not Jim Flora.

Now drinking:  Iced coffee with Silk almond creamer

This was the latest Sauter-Finegan album to have entered my life, circa early 2000s, and it is one of only two Sauter-Finegan albums that I subsequently unloaded.

Why?  Maybe I felt like I had too many S-F albums, maybe I was in a mood, maybe I was disappointed that the cover wasn't by Jim Flora.

But my main recollection is that it represented almost everything I didn't like about S-F, and almost none of the qualities that drew me to them.  Even the titles are awful:  "Horse Play," "Child's Play," "Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum," "Yankee Doodletown."  What was up with S-F's obsession with Doodletown?  Almost every album has a Doodletown track.

The worst was "Child's Play," in which our heroes take the childhood taunting motif of "NAAH NAAH nuh NAAH NAAH" and turn it into a bombastic, Kenton-esque magnum opus.  An exercise in cleverness that no one in their right mind would want to hear, especially with a hangover.

Here is the track list.

A1 Child's Play

A2 Horseplay

A3 Time To Dream

A4 The Honey Jump

B1 Nina Never Knew

B2 Love Is A Simple Thing

B3 Tweedle Dee And Tweedle Dum

B4 Stop Beatin' 'Round The Mulberry Bush

B5 Now That I'm In Love

B6 Yankee Doodletown

 For those braver than I, here is the full album.  If anyone thinks anything here is worth a listen, please share the timings.

 

Is it Joe Mooney who is the male vocalist on this album?

[Teasing the Korean]

48 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Is it Joe Mooney who is the male vocalist on this album?

Dunno, I no longer have a copy. 

[Big Beat Steve]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

Is it Joe Mooney who is the male vocalist on this album?

Yes it's him - acording to the liner notes.

[JSngry]

Thanks. He kinda creeps me out, like he's Johnny Mercer trying to do Joe Carroll or some weird shit like that.

If it's supposed to make me chuckle, then great. But I'm not sure that it is, so...

[JSngry]

I'm really liking "The Loop", but is there a reason why it seems to be a commentary on "Northwest Passage"?

Who's the drummer on this one? Don Lamond" Kicking that big-band ass, whoever it is!

[Teasing the Korean]

12 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'm really liking "The Loop", but is there a reason why it seems to be a commentary on "Northwest Passage"?

Who's the drummer on this one? Don Lamond" Kicking that big-band ass, whoever it is!

My LP copy credits only the soloists, so I don't know. 

[JSngry]

I'm encouraged enough by what you're bringing to light here to see if I can't find some cheap copies of some more albums. I think by the time it's all over I can get one really good compilation to make by myself/for myself. So, thanks for advocating, you've really got me to relisten and reconsider. It helps that it's not a lot of money to do so, but still...

Now, having said that...trying and failing to find ANY rationale for that "John Henry" thing, wtf? What was the object of that game?

[Big Beat Steve]

15 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'm really liking "The Loop", but is there a reason why it seems to be a commentary on "Northwest Passage"?

Who's the drummer on this one? Don Lamond" Kicking that big-band ass, whoever it is!

Mousie Alexander, sez Bruyninckx.

 

[JSngry]

Heard the name, probably the playing, but not consciously. The dude be driving!

Who else is in the rhythm section, if I may ask?

[Big Beat Steve]

Charlie Henry (p), Mundell Lowe (g), Francis James (b), Joe Venuto & Sperie Karas (perc), Eddie vito (harp).

[JSngry]

Mundell Lowe was chunkin' very nicely as well. Who is/was Francis James?

[sgcim]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:25 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

And so we continue our bachelor's Sauter-Finegan odyssey with an album that isn't quite Sauter-Finegan.

Liebermann:  Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra - RCA LM 1888.

Cover art:  Moderne abstract painting

Now drinking:  Strong black tea with orange blossom honey

I have two recordings of this oddity, comprising side 1 of the RCA Red Seal LP being discussed, and this is my favorite among the two.  Our heroes' band is  paired with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, under the baton of Fritz Reiner.

While this piece should appeal to me in theory - more or less a twelve-tone composition blending jazz orchestra and symphony orchestra - it doesn't quite do it for me.  It starts out promising, and every time I play it, I think to myself, "I'm gonna like it this time," but it never holds together enough to keep my attention.  This is the kind of piece that a university professor of jazz composition would probably praise for its "architecture," but I will take Jerry Goldsmith's "jazz" scores for The Twilight Zone over this any day.  On the other hand, there is not the slightest hint of Doodletown to be found.  

The execution, as you would expect, is dead on. 

Side 2, Richard Strauss's Don Juan, has no Sauter-Finegan involvement. 

EDIT:  I just re-listened, and I truly liked it more this time than I ever have before.  I am either getting  more mature or more forgiving in my musical assessments.

Enjoy!

 

On 2/2/2019 at 1:25 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

And so we continue our bachelor's Sauter-Finegan odyssey with an album that isn't quite Sauter-Finegan.

Liebermann:  Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra - RCA LM 1888.

Cover art:  Moderne abstract painting

Now drinking:  Strong black tea with orange blossom honey

I have two recordings of this oddity, comprising side 1 of the RCA Red Seal LP being discussed, and this is my favorite among the two.  Our heroes' band is  paired with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, under the baton of Fritz Reiner.

While this piece should appeal to me in theory - more or less a twelve-tone composition blending jazz orchestra and symphony orchestra - it doesn't quite do it for me.  It starts out promising, and every time I play it, I think to myself, "I'm gonna like it this time," but it never holds together enough to keep my attention.  This is the kind of piece that a university professor of jazz composition would probably praise for its "architecture," but I will take Jerry Goldsmith's "jazz" scores for The Twilight Zone over this any day.  On the other hand, there is not the slightest hint of Doodletown to be found.  

The execution, as you would expect, is dead on. 

Side 2, Richard Strauss's Don Juan, has no Sauter-Finegan involvement. 

EDIT:  I just re-listened, and I truly liked it more this time than I ever have before.  I am either getting  more mature or more forgiving in my musical assessments.

Enjoy!

I'm getting tired of the quote thing on this website; it winds up adding a previous post you made to the thread, along with the post you quoted. Maybe it will look okay when I post it, but I don't know why your previous post to the thread has to be included. 

Anyway, when I was going to college, I went over a trumpet player friend of mine's house, and he said to me, "Hey do you wanna hear my father playing a trumpet concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra?" I said, "Are you kidding? Put it on!"  His father was Al Majorca, the trumpet teacher at the college, and a great lead player who worked with many of the big bands on both the West Coast and the East Coast. He put on the fast movement, where it sounded like his dad was playing 12-tone bop lines on top of the orchestra, and I freaked out. I never heard or saw the record again, but I'm assuming Al was in the Sauter-Finegan Band at this time. Is that him playing the trumpet on the Liebermann Concerto, and was he in the Sauter-Finegan band?

On 1/27/2019 at 8:39 AM, JSngry said:

Why I'm piqued to see how much "serious" stuff there is, is because I bought a hat record a few years ago that had "classical" compositions by a.o., Stephen Wolpe, John Carisi, and this nice saxophone quartet by Eddie Sauter.

so...any S-F material you can bring to this table that is coming from this place, I want to hear it, please!

That's a beautiful piece! Thanks for posting that. You'd probably have to go to the stuff he wrote for Getz to find anything on that level...

Edited February 6, 2019 by sgcim

[Teasing the Korean]

The next entry in our Bachelor's Guide to Sauter-Finegan is another that I don't have:

Straight Down the Middle - RCA LPM/LSP 1497

Cover art:  Two side-by-side color photos of white couples dancing.  

Now drinking:  Lemon ginger tea

This is apparently the first S-F album recorded, or at least released, in stereo. 

This is one I've seen in the bins, but have always passed up.  It's title and cover art always turned me off, as if it were saying, "Nothing too wild here, just good, straight-ahead big band music for polite couples to dance to."  Were they trying to differentiate themselves from their label-mate Esquivel?  At least half of the tunes are standards.  

Here is the title track, kind of what I expected, with a few percussive space-age accents.  Nothing wrong with it, but nothing I would pay more than a buck or two for, assuming it were in great condition.

 

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

I'm encouraged enough by what you're bringing to light here to see if I can't find some cheap copies of some more albums.

If they have Jim Flora covers, forget it.  People buy them for the cover art.  

11 hours ago, JSngry said:

Now, having said that...trying and failing to find ANY rationale for that "John Henry" thing, wtf? What was the object of that game?

I too am stumped. 

[JSngry]

There will be other options.

8 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

 

Here is the title track, kind of what I expected, with a few percussive space-age accents.  Nothing wrong with it, but nothing I would pay more than a buck or two for, assuming it were in great condition.

 

Ok, I almost like that a lot, like a parallel universe where Ellington & Basie were the same thing (and that's something you could say about Thad Jones once he got his own band, but that was in THIS universe). Turnoffs are the solos (good, but not really driving the point home), and the essentially dance-gig functionality of the chart's development, seems like it never went one way or the other. But if the rest of the record is like this, I'll check it out. If this is still Mousey Alexander on drums, kudos!

[sgcim]

25 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

The next entry in our Bachelor's Guide to Sauter-Finegan is another that I don't have:

Straight Down the Middle - RCA LPM/LSP 1497

Cover art:  Two side-by-side color photos of white couples dancing.  

Now drinking:  Lemon ginger tea

This is apparently the first S-F album recorded, or at least released, in stereo. 

This is one I've seen in the bins, but have always passed up.  It's title and cover art always turned me off, as if it were saying, "Nothing too wild here, just good, straight-ahead big band music for polite couples to dance to."  Were they trying to differentiate themselves from their label-mate Esquivel?  At least half of the tunes are standards.  

Here is the title track, kind of what I expected, with a few percussive space-age accents.  Nothing wrong with it, but nothing I would pay more than a buck or two for, assuming it were in great condition.

 

On 2/2/2019 at 1:25 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

And so we continue our bachelor's Sauter-Finegan odyssey with an album that isn't quite Sauter-Finegan.

Liebermann:  Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra - RCA LM 1888.

Cover art:  Moderne abstract painting

Now drinking:  Strong black tea with orange blossom honey

I have two recordings of this oddity, comprising side 1 of the RCA Red Seal LP being discussed, and this is my favorite among the two.  Our heroes' band is  paired with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, under the baton of Fritz Reiner.

While this piece should appeal to me in theory - more or less a twelve-tone composition blending jazz orchestra and symphony orchestra - it doesn't quite do it for me.  It starts out promising, and every time I play it, I think to myself, "I'm gonna like it this time," but it never holds together enough to keep my attention.  This is the kind of piece that a university professor of jazz composition would probably praise for its "architecture," but I will take Jerry Goldsmith's "jazz" scores for The Twilight Zone over this any day.  On the other hand, there is not the slightest hint of Doodletown to be found.  

The execution, as you would expect, is dead on. 

Side 2, Richard Strauss's Don Juan, has no Sauter-Finegan involvement. 

EDIT:  I just re-listened, and I truly liked it more this time than I ever have before.  I am either getting  more mature or more forgiving in my musical assessments.

Enjoy!

 

On 2/2/2019 at 1:25 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

And so we continue our bachelor's Sauter-Finegan odyssey with an album that isn't quite Sauter-Finegan.

Liebermann:  Concerto for Jazz Band and Symphony Orchestra - RCA LM 1888.

Cover art:  Moderne abstract painting

Now drinking:  Strong black tea with orange blossom honey

I have two recordings of this oddity, comprising side 1 of the RCA Red Seal LP being discussed, and this is my favorite among the two.  Our heroes' band is  paired with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, under the baton of Fritz Reiner.

While this piece should appeal to me in theory - more or less a twelve-tone composition blending jazz orchestra and symphony orchestra - it doesn't quite do it for me.  It starts out promising, and every time I play it, I think to myself, "I'm gonna like it this time," but it never holds together enough to keep my attention.  This is the kind of piece that a university professor of jazz composition would probably praise for its "architecture," but I will take Jerry Goldsmith's "jazz" scores for The Twilight Zone over this any day.  On the other hand, there is not the slightest hint of Doodletown to be found.  

The execution, as you would expect, is dead on. 

Side 2, Richard Strauss's Don Juan, has no Sauter-Finegan involvement. 

EDIT:  I just re-listened, and I truly liked it more this time than I ever have before.  I am either getting  more mature or more forgiving in my musical assessments.

Enjoy!

I'm getting tired of the quote thing on this website; it winds up adding a previous post you made to the thread, along with the post you quoted. Maybe it will look okay when I post it, but I don't know why you're previous post to the thread has to be included. 

Anyway, when I was going to college, I went over a trumpet player friend of mine's house, and he said to me, "Hey do you wanna hear my father playing a trumpet concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra?" I said, "Are you kidding? Put it on!"  His father was Al Majorca, the trumpet teacher at the college, and a great lead player who worked with many of the big bands on both the West Coast and the East Coast. He put on the fast movement, where it sounded like his dad was playing 12-tone bop lines on top of the orchestra, and I freaked out. I never heard or saw the record again, but I'm assuming Al was in the Sauter-Finegan Band at this time. Is that him playing the trumpet on the Liebermann Concerto, and was he in the Sauter-Finegan band?

On 1/27/2019 at 8:39 AM, JSngry said:

Why I'm piqued to see how much "serious" stuff there is, is because I bought a hat record a few years ago that had "classical" compositions by a.o., Stephen Wolpe, John Carisi, and this nice saxophone quartet by Eddie Sauter.

so...any S-F material you can bring to this table that is coming from this place, I want to hear it, please!

This quote thing is getting confusing, but I guess you just erase your last post and write a new one.

TTK-In the message I sent you, I thought the Rolf Liebermann piece was a Trumpet Concerto, but it's a concerto for Jazz Band and Orchestra. Anyway, I wanted to know if the trumpet soloist was a trumpet player named Al Majorca. You can see the details in my last post, sandwiched in the group of quotes above.