2018 rock hall inductees

[GA Russell]

On 12/14/2018 at 9:15 PM, Milestones said:

Geez, I looked up some info on The Zombies and found they released two albums in the 60's.  Two??? I know it was still a time of singles, but TWO albums? 

 

Actually... (but who's counting?!!!)

I think they recorded two albums for Decca, but the second was not released in the US.

https://www.amazon.com/Zombies/dp/B00008NRLJ/

...and maybe...

https://www.amazon.com/Zombies-Clear-Vinyl/dp/B01G68ZJGY/

Thirty years ago there was a Spanish LP series called "Gigantes del Pop."  I bought The Zombies' LP, which included 20 Decca recordings.

Then as we all know, they moved to CBS and recorded...
https://www.amazon.com/Odessey-Oracle-LP-Zombies/dp/B00YZ6MWJC/

For Christmas next week, I will receive this 2-CD set...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DMDI4S6/

Also, consider their Decca EPs:
https://www.amazon.com/Ep-Collection-Zombies/dp/B00000767N/ref=ntt_mus_dp_dpt_13

[felser]

5 hours ago, Brad said:

Sometimes that’s all it takes. Do you think Mazeroski would be in the HOF if he didn’t hit the HR win the 1960 WS?

Maz turned the double play better than any 2B who ever lived.

[mjzee]

7 hours ago, Milestones said:

Gotta say, though, that "Time of the Season" is one of the greatest  British rock songs of the 60's.

 

Plus they had two guys rockin' the hornrims.

[felser]

Didn't realize the Moody Blues were in.  I really stopped paying attention a long time ago due to goofy choices and snubs.  Snubs include Jethro Tull, Chaka Khan & Rufus, Todd Rundgren, King Crimson, Smith, right?  And why not John Coltrane, since they do influential artists from other musical fields?  

[Scott Dolan]

8 hours ago, paul secor said:

I don't keep up with that world, so I thought all of them were merely candidates. That makes it an even scarier, screwed up world than I imagined.

I’m hoping this is simply sarcasm.

As for the rest of the conversation, I’m with Jim when it comes to Jethro Tull. I respect them, I just don’t get them. Talented, but I find their music rather boring. But, what seems to be going on is that we have some Prog Rock fans here miffed that their favorite artists haven’t been inducted. One thing I’ve learned about Prog fans is that they are militantly passionate about their music, yet lack the perspective that Prog was never really that popular, and for good reason, IMO. 

Yes broke through, but even Genesis had to turn to Pop to find any true level of success. While I can listen to and appreciate Prog, it’s really rather mundane music that has a limited, but hardcore, following. So it’s really no surprise that few Prog bands are in the HoF. 

[JSngry]

16 hours ago, paul secor said:

I don't keep up with that world, so I thought all of them were merely candidates. That makes it an even scarier, screwed up world than I imagined.

It's the ongoing battle for control of the oxygen that has been being fought (and too often won) by white boomers for at least 60 years now. I mean, I've been guilty as well, but let's not kid ourselves about how all this has played out. Name it, claim it, and then eat it.

[Milestones]

John Coltrane for Rock HOF! I can guarantee he has been an influence on many rock musicians.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Milestones

[Rooster_Ties]

1 hour ago, Milestones said:

John Coltrane for Rock HOF! I can guarantee he has been an influence on many rock musicians.

Well, Miles is in the RnR Hall, isn't he? Why not Trane?

[JSngry]

The Byrds are in. Why not Trane?

[Scott Dolan]

8 hours ago, Milestones said:

John Coltrane for Rock HOF! I can guarantee he has been an influence on many rock musicians.

 

 

Sure he was. His name has been dropped multiple times in Rock tunes.

[Rooster_Ties]

15 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Well, Miles is in the RnR Hall, isn't he? Why not Trane?

Coltrane also pretty directly influenced the writing of "Eight Miles High" -- and The Byrds used to play "Milestones" in concert too.  Check this out, at about the 10:00 mark (theme comes in at 10:05)...

 

[JSngry]

Chewy's not responsible for anybody's actions but him own.

[Milestones]

I respectfully disagree about Prog Rock.  While sometimes it has been regarded as pretentious--and in actual fact has sometimes been pretentious--I and many others have found value and enjoyment in this music.  We are talking about Yes, Moody Blues, early Genesis, Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, King Crimson, and the biggest of all: Pink Floyd.  This is a serious strand or genre within rock music. 

 

[clifford_thornton]

indeed, where are Moving Gelatine Plates in all this?

[Scott Dolan]

6 hours ago, Milestones said:

I respectfully disagree about Prog Rock.  While sometimes it has been regarded as pretentious--and in actual fact has sometimes been pretentious--I and many others have found value and enjoyment in this music.  We are talking about Yes, Moody Blues, early Genesis, Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, King Crimson, and the biggest of all: Pink Floyd.  This is a serious strand or genre within rock music. 

 

That's how fans of all obscure genres feel, though. 

Again, it was never a popular genre, and bands like Genesis and The Moody Blues only experienced a higher level of success when they stripped away all the Prog excess and started making more Pop Rock oriented albums. 

Hell, even Yes experienced the most success with 90125.

And I've never considered Pink Floyd a Prog group, personally. 

[Milestones]

Really?  So how do you define "popular"?  Every record by Yes in the 1970's went gold or platinum.  The Moody Blues had roughly equivalent sales in those years. This was bested by Emerson, Lake & Palmer--whose first 6 albums went gold.

In addition, is popularity a key factor in a group entering a Hall of Fame?

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Milestones

[Scott Dolan]

Yes was an outlier. I’ll even grant you ELP. 

Popularity is one factor. Legacy and influence are others. 

Look, I spent my fair share of time listening to Prog, all the way up to Porcupine Tree. It just doesn’t hold up, IMO. 

It’s like going back and listening the music that was the soundtrack of your teenage years. In many cases it ends up sounding dated and weak. Think west coast Punk, Heavy Metal/“Hair Metal”, Disco, 80’s Post Punk, 60’s Psychedelic, Grunge...There were greats that came out of those scenes, but not many. 

All popular enough at the time, but did they really hold up and/or have a lasting effect? 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Scott Dolan

[clifford_thornton]

I feel like King Crimson are more than deserving, but they might be a little too 'arch' for the average RnR HoF voter.

I was recently shocked that a seemingly 'hip,' middle-aged coworker of mine had never heard of King Crimson.

[JSngry]

Maybe it was just in my world, but Crimson was very much a "cult" band until they reformed with Adrian Belew, and even then, it's not like they started having Top 40 hits. But that's been a good-to-great band for a long time

As far as "Prog"...this wasn't a label that I knew in the early 70s. What it was called then was "Art Rock" or on occasion, "Classical Rock". Again, though, maybe that was just in my world. And the whole "Canterbury" thing, that was DEEP cult favorites. The guy who introduced me to it and all like it lovingly referred to it as "non-glandular music".

Will there be a place in this HOF (one that does indeed have actual spaces!) for anything non-glandular?

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, I mean, in theory bands like Sonic Youth should be in there but that ain't happening. 

just took a look at their website and it's about on the level of your average Cabo Wabo bullshit.

[Milestones]

Well, I'd certainly favor Jethro Tull, ELP, and King Crimson over at least 50 artists in the Rock Hall.

 

[Scott Dolan]

I probably would, too. But they lost all credibility about the time they inducted Miles, IMO. 

[clifford_thornton]

yeah, me too.

[Steve Reynolds]

Don Van Vliet isn’t even in this supposed Hall of Fame

Edited December 21, 2018 by Steve Reynolds

[danasgoodstuff]

On 12/16/2018 at 0:19 AM, Scott Dolan said:

I’m hoping this is simply sarcasm.

As for the rest of the conversation, I’m with Jim when it comes to Jethro Tull. I respect them, I just don’t get them. Talented, but I find their music rather boring. But, what seems to be going on is that we have some Prog Rock fans here miffed that their favorite artists haven’t been inducted. One thing I’ve learned about Prog fans is that they are militantly passionate about their music, yet lack the perspective that Prog was never really that popular, and for good reason, IMO. 

Yes broke through, but even Genesis had to turn to Pop to find any true level of success. While I can listen to and appreciate Prog, it’s really rather mundane music that has a limited, but hardcore, following. So it’s really no surprise that few Prog bands are in the HoF. 

Dude, I so totally agree with you here that it's scary!  An interesting (IMHO) thing that came up in a similar discussion on another forum was that most ardent prog fans are NOT really big on basic early rock 'n roll. Or, in my experience of having lived through this in real time in The Paris of the Prairies, is that most of 'em aren't really big blues fans either.  Given that the Hall o' Fame at least claims to value those two things highly, their choices aren't that surprising.  On the other hand, if we just take the practical approach of do they have 'a sound of their own' that some significant portion of the fandom can recognize, them most name prog bands qualify as do the Zombies who had latent prog tendencies...feeling reconciliatory today, I am.  'Trane as an influence makes as much sense as Miles.  And Little Walter should be in as a leader as well as a sideman.