mikeweil Posted February 3, 2019 Report Posted February 3, 2019 I'm glad I cancelled my order for their CD issue after your posts here. One wonders If they actually listened while doing the transfers ....... Quote
monkboughtlunch Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) On 2/3/2019 at 6:28 PM, mikeweil said: I'm glad I cancelled my order for their CD issue after your posts here. One wonders If they actually listened while doing the transfers ....... I doubt Essential Media Group LLC listened while transferring. If you want a big laugh, listen to the below clip of "Blue and Boogie" from "The Jazz Organs" which runs 29% fast as transferred and published on iTunes and Amazon by "Essential Media Group LLC." The Essential Media Group LLC web site states: "We have provided services to a wide range of clients. For major labels to Film & TV projects, our catalog of past and future hits has proven invaluable. Some of our clientele have included: HBO Films, Paramount , Time Life, Universal Music, Warner Bros, Sony Music, SMI, Virgin America, BMG, BMG Ariola, EMI, Kiddix GmbH, Ministry Of Sound, Telstar, Motor Music GmbH and many many more." So wait, I'm confused. Essential Media Group LLC attributes copyright of Jack's Vault recordings to Essential Media Group (per the copyright attribution on iTunes). But Essential Media group makes no copyright attribution to Warner Brothers/Rhino. This is perplexing as Jack Lewerke's son stated that Warner Brothers/Rhino own the Vault masters. But Essential Media Group LLC states on their web site they have "provided services to ... Warner Bros." So are the Essential Media Group LLC needle drop digital reissues of Jack's Vault catalog (e.g. Ramblin', The Jazz Organs and Brazilian Mancini) legal, legitimate reissues made with Warner/Rhino permission? Or are they in fact bootlegs in which Jack Wilson's music is being pirated in plain view? What is really going on here with Essential Media Group LLC? Source: http://essentialmg.com/about-us/ Edited February 4, 2019 by monkboughtlunch Quote
king ubu Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 just in case, they are not operating within European law (50 years) - they're Florida based: http://essentialmg.com/about-us/ it's too bad not even Japan seems to bother about the Vault recordings - whom do they actually belong to? Not to any of the major conglomerates? http://www.cvinyl.com/labelguides/vault.php Quote
monkboughtlunch Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, king ubu said: it's too bad not even Japan seems to bother about the Vault recordings - whom do they actually belong to? Not to any of the major conglomerates? http://www.cvinyl.com/labelguides/vault.php Greg Lewerke, the original Vault owner's son, said the Vault masters belong to Warner Brothers / Rhino. Edited February 4, 2019 by monkboughtlunch Quote
king ubu Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, monkboughtlunch said: Greg Lewerke, the original Vault owner's son, said the Vault masters belong to Warner Brothers / Rhino. Okay, thanks - so as I wanted to post initially (but then didn't since wiki and that linked site don't have that info): all the more it's a pity that the large Warner/Atlantic reissue programme in Japana, a few years back, seemed to have skipped these, too! Prompted by the Wilson discussions here, I played his first two Atlantics (and threw in "Virgo Vibes" by Roy Ayers, with Wilson on piano on the second half as well as two bonus tracks) over the weekend. Very nice for sure! Quote
king ubu Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 Btw, would love to lay my hands on the new one, but it's not quite available yet over here (or in the 30-35$ range) ... I'll keep checking! Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, king ubu said: ...and threw in "Virgo Vibes" by Roy Ayers, with Wilson on piano on the second half as well as two bonus tracks) over the weekend. Glad you have the version with the two bonus tracks! - which really makes for a nicely expanded album w/ ~13 min of new material (none of which is 'just alternates' either) -- which also expands the about of Charles Tolliver in the known (recorded) universe too. That expanded "Virgo Vibes" release is really a nice document of a few things: The only(?) known intersection of Joe Henderson and Charles Tolliver (that I'm aware of, anyway). And a nifty smaller-combo version of Gerald Wilson's "In The Limelight" (which Ayer's had played on Wilson's own Pacific Jazz album "On Stage" recorded in 1965). WELL worth seeking out... https://www.discogs.com/Roy-Ayers-Virgo-Vibes/release/901369 NICE version of Tolliver's "The Ringer" too (with Joe Henderson) -- though not with Jack Wilson, but some cat named 'Ronnie Clark'. (Oops, I see "In The Limelight" is also one of the 3 tracks with 'Ronnie Clark' too, not Wilson.) Quote
king ubu Posted February 4, 2019 Report Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Rooster_Ties said: That expanded "Virgo Vibes" release is really a nice document of a few things: The only(?) known intersection of Joe Henderson and Charles Tolliver (that I'm aware of, anyway). And a nifty smaller-combo version of Gerald Wilson's "In The Limelight" (which Ayer's had played on Wilson's own Pacific Jazz album "On Stage" recorded in 1965). WELL worth seeking out... Yep, nice disc for sure! I noticed that jazzdisco.org (which I don't take as a reliable source) gives Wilson for one track only (and doesn't list the bonus tracks at atll): https://www.jazzdisco.org/atlantic-records/catalog-1400-series/#lp-1488 But then they explain to me who "Ronnie Clark" is, okay ... didn't realize that yesterday Quote
mikeweil Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) "Ronnie Clark" was Herbie Hancock. They solved the riddle in the credits to the "Daddy Bug & Friends" compilation. Hancock, btw, plays on the title track, "Virgo Vibes" as well - the take with Jack Wilson from the LA session remains unissued. Edited February 5, 2019 by mikeweil Quote
soulpope Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, mikeweil said: "Ronnie Clark" was Herbie Hancock. They solved the riddle in the credits to the "Daddy Bug & Friends" compilation. Hancock, btw, play on the title track, "Virgo Vibes" as well - the take with Jack Wilson from the LA session remains unissued. Didn`t know that .... Quote
mikeweil Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 On 4.2.2019 at 2:45 PM, king ubu said: Btw, would love to lay my hands on the new one, but it's not quite available yet over here (or in the 30-35$ range) ... I'll keep checking! I got mine from JUNO in the UK, cost me twenny bucks incl. shipping. They ship fast and pack in sturdy boxes. https://www.juno.co.uk/artists/The+Jack+Wilson+Quartet/ Quote
mikeweil Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 On 4.2.2019 at 8:59 AM, king ubu said: it's too bad not even Japan seems to bother about the Vault recordings .... Some research tells me there was only a handful of jazz albums on the Vault label: 108 Jack Wilson - The Jazz Organs 131 Elaine Brown - Seize The Time 9004 Charlie Barnet - Charlie Barnet Big Band - 1967 9009 Hampton Hawes Plays Movie Musicals 9010 Hampton Hawes - High In The Sky 9012 Charles Owens - I Stand Alone 9006 Kid Ory - Live 9001 Jack Wilson Plays Brazilian Mancini 9002 Jack Wilson - Ramblin' 9005 Larry Bunker - Live At Shelly's Manne-Hole 9008 South Frisco Jazz Band 9011 Ernie Watts The Wonder Bag An elaborate listing can be found under http://www.bsnpubs.com/la/vault/vault.html Ramblin', the two Hampton Hawes and the Larry Bunker (with Gary Burton) have been reissued on Fresh Sound. The Ernie Watts is a poppish treatment of Stevie Wonder tunes. The Elaine Brown is a poetry recital with jazz backing arranged by Horace Tapscott. The Barnet big band has Jack Wilson on piano, arrangements by Billy Byers and Bill Holman. The Kid Ory is a 1947 live recording. Can't say anything about the South Frisco Jazz Band, probably a revivalist affair. Charles Owens was a West Coast hard bop tenor saxist, Oscar Brashear plays on his album. Other LPs in the 9000 series were pop, e.g. 9003 by the Chambers Brothers. Quote
Niko Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I wouldn't call the Brown (which has also been reissued, first by Rhino then by Essential MG) poetry plus jazz, it's more like a Black Panther attempt at propaganda music similar to what was produced in Eastern Europe at the time (other songs are somewhat more successful regarding singing and songwriting but on this one you can nicely hear Tapscott's Arkestra) Edit: another song from the album with a remarkable homemade video Edited February 5, 2019 by Niko Quote
JSngry Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, mikeweil said: An elaborate listing can be found under http://www.bsnpubs.com/la/vault/vault.html This article confirms my impressions of the Vault LPs I saw in the bins back in the day - somehow affiliated with Atlantic, the graphics/design often had that look to them, especially on the back covers. Quote
monkboughtlunch Posted February 5, 2019 Report Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, mikeweil said: Ramblin', the two Hampton Hawes and the Larry Bunker (with Gary Burton) have been reissued on Fresh Sound. I don't think Fresh Sound Spain puts out legal releases of Vault (or other US labels like Argo / Cadet). They sound like they use needle drops from LPs or dubs from commercially produced 3 3/4" or 7 1/2" ips consumer pre-recorded reel to reel tapes. Check this out: Per this Amazon listing, the mysterious company "Essential Media Group LLC" has also reissued "Ramblin'" as a download. Note the cover image below with the Essential Media Group logo on the left and marketing copy claiming it has been "digitally remastered." What is this Essential Media Group stuff? A legitimate release or a bootleg? Someone should investigate and get to the bottom of this in case Jack Wilson's widow and/or Rhino/Warner are being cheated out of royalties from these sales. Greg Lewerke, son of Vault founder, claims Rhino / Warner own the Vault masters. If that's the case, why is only Essential Media Group credited on their digital releases of Jack's Vault albums? Looks like Amazon is selling the digital files as downloads or offering CD-Rs of what Essential Media Group LLC published back in 2011. I wonder if Essential Media Group did another needle drop for Ramblin' -- or if they just bootlegged the Fresh Sound Spain CD (which itself is apparently needle drop or 3 3/4 reel to reel bootleg dub). Are the track times of the Essential Media Group reissue identical to the Fresh Sound reissue? If so, that could indicate they copied the Fresh Sound (needle drop?) digital files. See here: https://www.amazon.com/Ramblin-Digitally-Remastered-Quartet-Featuring/dp/B0050DOQZ2 Product details Audio CD (May 11, 2011) Number of Discs: 1 Label: Essential Media Group Run Time: 43 minutes ASIN: B0050DOQZ2 Edited February 5, 2019 by monkboughtlunch Quote
king ubu Posted February 6, 2019 Report Posted February 6, 2019 Well, in this case the Fresh Sound CD is not legal indeed, as it does not conform with the 50 year/pre 1962 (or is it 1963?) rule. But supposing the album would be from 1962, doing a needle drop would be legal (using the non-existing 1998 Atlantic CD reissue would not). Selling the Fresh Sound CD in the US would not be legal I think (because you have Disney's 70 or howevermanyyears rule, not the 50 year rule of yurp that you managed to stop, too). But then Amazon is what exactly ... a Luxemburg company paying no taxes in Ireland and catering bootlegs to merikins? Anyway, my understanding is that the "Ramblin'" CD sounds horrible, if not I'd hunt for it, just to hear that. And oviously the merikin pirates/bootleggers from Essential Media Group do an even worse job, so there you go ... If Warner really owns the rights to the Vault catalogue, there's still an oh so faint hope that the Japanese might eventually do some proper reissues, but I'm not holding my breath. Quote
JSngry Posted February 11, 2019 Report Posted February 11, 2019 Roy Ayers plays a mean cowbell. Who knew? Quote
mikeweil Posted February 12, 2019 Report Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, JSngry said: Roy Ayers plays a mean cowbell. Who knew? Well, I knew ... ,,, once saw a video of some Herbie Mann live performance where he played some mean cowbell. Can't remember the tune and can't find it on youtube, but found a 1967 video of Mann's band at Newport with Ayers, Reggie Workman, Bruno Carr, and guests Chick Ganimian on oud and master drummer Michael Olatunji - even Workman picks up a tambourine, Ayers some wooden agogo. Second half has Joao Gilberto's band. Herbie invented world music. Edited February 12, 2019 by mikeweil Quote
soulpope Posted February 12, 2019 Report Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, mikeweil said: Well, I knew ... ,,, once saw a video of some Herbie Mann live performance where he played some mean cowbell. Can't remember the tune and can't find it on youtube, but found a 1967 video of Mann's band at Newport with Ayers, Reggie Workman, Bruno Carr, and guests Chick Ganimian on oud and master drummer Michael Olatunji - even Workman picks up a tambourine, Ayers some wooden agogo. Second half has Joao Gilberto's band. Herbie invented world music. Thnx for sharing .... Quote
sidewinder Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 Just bought the blue vinyl version of this one as a RSD 2020 release. Quote
sidewinder Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, mjazzg said: UK retailer? Yes, Juno - looks like they are currently sold out though. Quote
mjazzg Posted August 25, 2020 Report Posted August 25, 2020 There's a couple of Amazon sellers. I might jump for this Quote
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