New Terumasa Hino reissues

[jlhoots]

10 hours ago, soulpope said:

👍👍👍!!!

Ordered the low priced Japanese version with the nicer cover.

Edited December 13, 2018 by jlhoots

[JSngry]

41 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

What's up with so many Terumasa Hino albums starting with *ballads*??  Both some of his studio albums, and even some live albums.  My sample is nearly all pre-1978, but I'm guessing close to 1/4th or even 1/3rd of the Hino leader-dates that I have are like this.

I don't think I've EVER seen an artist who side 1, track 1 leads off with a straight up ballad (and not even a mid-tempo one), as often as Terumasa Hino. No one even comes close.

Was "Alone Alone and Alone" his "Sidewinder"? -- and so the record companies kept demanding more 'hits' from him like "Alone x3"??

If you can pull it off, that's a very effective (and very nervy!) tact. Create a zone by eliminating stray energy instead of by stirring people up first and then chilling them out. Ain't everybody who can do that.

I may be wrong, but I think the Miles Prestige marathoin sessions, he started off with ballads. I put them together that way once, and it was a real treat to get that slow stuff and then, finally, here come the hard hits, and they hit that much harder because of the quietness of the ballads, sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhBAM!!!

Anyway...

[Rooster_Ties]

The shipping-tracking gods say my big Dusty shipment -- mostly Hino! -- is due on Thursday.  Fingers crossed, cuz I'm due on a plane for St. Louis Friday afternoon, going to the airport straight from work (so I won't be able to get any mail on Friday before I go).

Hoping to spin them all a bit at work on Friday morning -- and then I may "subject" my Dad to hearing them in the car to and from Kansas City on Saturday and the following Thursday.  Depends on how "out" they are; we'll see!  He'll be 92, and he likes a good polka, or barbershop-quartet, or military band sort of thing, maybe once or twice a year (which is about as often as he makes any personal effort to hear music -- I don't know that he's ever listened to music on the radio, even (by choice) -- in his entire life).  That's the entirety of his interest in music (always has been).

My MOM, on the other hand, she's the one who had the record collection when I was growing up.  She thought my early interest in Jimi Hendrix was unfathomable (she grew up in the 30's and 40's), but she came around (a bit) when I played "Little Wing" and "Castles Made of Sand" for her, and "Up From The Skies" -- especially the Gil Evans' versions, and the link.

Anyway, I can't wait to dig into all this new Hino material, and I sure hope it gets here before I head out of town.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[felser]

5 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I may "subject" my Dad to hearing them in the car to and from Kansas City on Saturday and the following Thursday.  Depends on how "out" they are; we'll see!  He'll be 92, and he likes a good polka, or barbershop-quartet, or military band sort of thing, maybe once or twice a year (which is about as often as he makes any personal effort to hear music -- I don't know that he's ever listened to music on the radio, even (by choice) -- in his entire life).  That's the entirety of his interest in music (always has been).

I've got just the jazz album for him:

[Rooster_Ties]

On 12/13/2018 at 8:14 PM, HutchFan said:

Don't be shy about sharing your thoughts on these, Rooster. Would love to hear your impressions -- after you've had a chance to hear & "absorb" them . . .

Got my treasure trove of new Hino from Dusty today, and sampled all four of the new "Deep Reality" Hino Discs (as I was packing to get out of town for the holidays tomorrow, for a week).  Not every track all the way through, but I think I listened to about half of more of all four discs (and I skipped around on most of the very long tracks, to get a better sense of what they were probably about).

Clearly I'll have to provide a much better disc-by-disc (track-by-track) review later -- but in a nutshell, I'd say that all 4 CD's are on the "free"-er side of the spectrum, to one degree or another.  I think(?) only one of the 4 discs left me fairly cold (most of the disc), with all 3 of the others connecting pretty well (to "pretty darn well").  Two (2) of them were a lot more "outside" (less of a metronomic pulse to the proceedings) -- but one of those two more "out" discs was really outstanding -- tons of collective improv on that one (the largest group of all four discs, iirc) -- but it was really firing on all cylinders for as much as I heard.  Very, very busy -- but I kept wanting to hear more, and more.  2 or 3 of the discs had guitar (electric), and quite interesting too -- very tart, angular, and hard to pin down.

Taken as a whole (my overall impression of all 4 discs) -- as with most things in life, 1/3rd was outstanding (aka "DAMN good!!"), 1/3rd was merely good or "quite good", and the last 1/3rd was kinda "meh"...

Every disc had highs and lows, and 2 or 3 of the discs were noticeably better over all, and I think(?) only one might be especially disappointing.

I know, this is all useless unless and until I get into the nitty gritty -- and honestly, I'm not even sure which disc was which (I just put them all in my multi-player, and let 'em roll).  Like I said, I had a million things to do tonight, before I can skip town tomorrow (as I'm now finally headed to bed after 1:30am Eastern).

Lots more later, but not until I'm back from the holidays.  No way I am playing any of this in the car for/with my 92-year old father as I drive from St. Louis to Kansas City (and back) -- so it'll all have to wait until around New Years.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[Harbour]

I’d recommend getting the Fukui Karashima “Hot Islands” & Mabumi Yamaguchi “Mabumi’ albums that came out with the Hinos.

There is a lovely version of Weather Report’s American Tango on Hot Islands

[Rooster_Ties]

One NICE plus, that I was totally not expecting, was the bonus track on this new CD-reissue (which I also got).  The Dusty prose says it was/is just an "alternate take"...

https://www.dustygroove.com/item/894693?sf=Terumasa+Hino+Masabumi+Kikuchi+Quintet

• 
• So says Dusty: An incredible session of Japanese hard bop from the 60s – recorded by the crack quintet of trumpeter Terumasa Hino and pianist Masabumi Kikuchi! The feel here is very much in that Blue Note modern mode of the late 60s – with drawn-out tracks that hit a slightly modal groove that reminds us a lot of the work of Hank Mobley and Lee Morgan from the time – and the album's recorded with beautifully crafted lead arrangements which then give way to lots of room for exploratory solos. At times, the feel is almost in the "new thing" mode, but the overall focus here is more strongly straight ahead – extremely evocative, and a real lost jazz treasure! Titles include "Long Trip", "Tender Passion", "Ideal Portrait", and "HG & Pretty". CD also features a bonus alternate take of "HG & Pretty".

NOT so!! -- it's a full 15-minute LIVE version of "HG & Pretty" from the same year as the album was recorded (iirc) -- extending an otherwise rather short studio-session quite nicely!!

I already had this date on CD (a much older Denon version), but I have to admit that the new mini-LP replications of the original packaging are quite nice.  So I made an impulsive decision to upgrade for the bonus track.  Glad I did!!

EDIT:  The live track also includes a trombone player (whereas there's no trombone on the studio date) -- not sure who (as if half the names really register with me yet, on all these Japanese dates).  There may be some English credits somewhere in the repro-mini-LP -- but it's all super tiny type, and I didn't want to bother trying to get a magnifying glass on it at 1:30am last night.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:56 AM, Mark Stryker said:

[H6344]Add   Terumasa Hino

Peace And Love : Terumasa Hino (tp) Hideo Ichikawa (p) Kiyoshi Sugimoto (g) Reggie Workman (b) Motohiko Hino (d)

Tokyo, Japan, September 29 & October 1, 1970

	Gongen	Canyon (Jap)CAJ1004
	Peace and love	-

Note:

Both above titles also on Overseas (Jap)ULS-1852.

[H6345]Add   Terumasa Hino

A Part : Terumasa Hino (tp,flhrn) Takao Uematsu (ts,b-cl) Hideo Ichikawa (p,el-p) Kiyoshi Sugimoto (g) Reggie Workman (b) Motohiko Hino (d) Yuji Imamura (cga)

Tokyo, Japan, November 1, 8 & December 3, 1970

	A part	Canyon (Jap)CAJ1005
	Ode to Workman	-
	Be and know	-

Note:

All above titles also on Overseas (Jap)ULS1853.

Listened to Peace And Love and A Part yesterday just once each (session details above), and both are largely excellent.  I'll try and provide a more detailed review at some point, but my off-the-cuff description of both are that they're both fairly "free"-leaning, but with a mostly-solid (structured) underpinning in the rhythm-section through a good 70% of the proceedings.  Very solid B+ albums, both of them -- to my way of thinking.

The tenor-player on A Part goes too far 'out' for my tastes sometimes, but not for more than about 2 minutes at a time (at most) -- and his bass clarinet playing is also pretty far out there too, but he mostly doesn't detract from the proceedings.  (Your mileage may vary with him).

In both cases (both these CD's), Hino is in incredible form throughout, and Reggie Workman is a monster at holding things down (with Motohiko Hino on drums -- they really work well together).  But the unsung star on both dates is Kiyoshi Sugimoto (guitar), who never fails to be interesting at every turn, and a player who really deserves to be a lot better known.  And Hideo Ichikawa (piano and some Rhodes (iirc)), is no slouch either.

I'm glad the tenor-player isn't on both of these dates, but I don't mind him entirely (when he reigns it in a bit).  I was about to suggest that Peace And Love is maybe the slightly better of these two, but "Ode to Workman" from A Part is really phenomenal, and I definitely wouldn't want to be without it.  I'd probably recommend both of these dates equally.

My *memory* of the other two 'Deep Reality' titles are that they're both even more 'outside' than these two, and I'll try and given them a listen tomorrow or over the weekend, and report back.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:56 AM, Mark Stryker said:

[H6339]Add   Terumasa Hino

Journey To Air : Terumasa Hino (tp,flhrn) Olu Dara (tp) Pete Yellin (fl,as) Gary Pribek (as) David Liebman (ts,as) Steve Grossman (ts,as,fl) Mike Garson (p,el-p) Lanny Fields, Dave Holland, Teruo Nakamura (b,el-b) Bob Moses, Motohiko Hino (d)

New York, March, 1970

	Journey to air (part 1)	Canyon (Jap)CAT1001
	Journey to air (part 2)	-

Note:

Canyon (Jap)CAT1001 also on Overseas (Jap)ULS1851.

 

[H6346]Add   Terumasa Hino

Love Nature : Terumasa Hino (tp) Gary Bartz (as) Kiyoshi Sugimoto (g) Reggie Workman (b) Eric Gravatt (d)

Teaneck, N.J., March 31, 1971

	Each/other	Canyon (Jap)J-1006
	Love nature	-
	Sister Mayumi	-

Note:

All above titles also on Overseas (Jap)ULS1854.

OK, I listened to both of the OTHER two "Deep Reality" reissues last night (session details are in what I've just quoted here -- which is different than my post on Dec 31) and here are my first impressions.

Journey To Air:  This is QUITE a bit more "free" than Peace And Love or A Part -- but I'm just stunned at how coherent(!) I found all of Journey To Air to be.  I can't remember exactly, but something close to 2/3rds of the entire album is collective improve -- but it's all handled just wonderfully.  In any other hands, this date could and probably would have been a total disaster, but I listened with rapt attention throughout.  Stylistically, I reminds me of a fairly free Sun Ra outing, albeit slightly more 'controlled'.  It appears to be a studio recording, and it all just hangs together beautifully!  I was fully prepared to be disappointed by this one ultimately (though I know I did report early good things about it back before Xmas) -- but I'm thrilled to report that this is maybe one of the most enjoyable "very free" albums I think I've heard in ages.  No themes, no tunes, no 'heads'.  But the pacing, and density of the improv - which goes back and forth between more of a single soloist (backed by others more in the background) -- alternating with periods of multi-horn improv (all layered on top of each other) -- ...but the pacing of all that is really a delight, and just right.  Hardly a minute (or even a moment) did I feel like the proceedings ever got off track -- and I can't wait to hear it again on my better stereo system in the other room (I was relegated to the bedroom, while my wife had a college basketball game on the TV in the living room).  Your mileage may vary, but I really loved Journey To Air.  Not necessarily 'more' than the other two slightly more 'inside' dates I gave quick reviews to in my Dec 31 post -- but it's a damn nice date.

Love Nature:  Pretty meh, I'm afraid.  Nowhere near as much collective improv, and things never seem to gel or go anywhere.  Doesn't help that Love Nature also sounds like it was recorded in a tiny space (almost like a practice room?), and like the mics were all shoved inside the bells of each of the horns.  Very disappointed in this one.  The best solos are by the guitar-player, but they're not all that hot either.  I guess I should count myself lucky, if only 1 of the 4 titles in this series (at $30 each, OUCH!!) turned out to be a dud, but this is it.  I'll give it another listen, and see if it works any better for me the 2nd time -- but nothing on this date was clicking.  Guess I should say that there were a couple half-hearted heads in spots, but then it was all free-improv the whole rest of the time, but with just one soloist at a time (iirc). Then at the very end of the whole thing, there's a unison(?) theme stated by the horns, which really seemed out of place, and disconnected with everything else.  In any case, NOT my cup of tea.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Rooster_Ties

[JSngry]

I've started on Hino's Journey To Air today and...seriously? Other than Bob Moses, I hear little music and quite a lot of "free jazz" gestures, like ok, this is the time for this, so let's do it, and then what happens? Ok, we've done this. Then what? Maybe if I had heard it in its time I'd have warm fuzzies for it today. But I didn't. And...I don't.

All of the motion, none of the meat, and Bullmoose Jackson to the contrary, I like both. Togehter. In the same place. At the same time.

[JSngry]

Ok, "Side 2" sounds only just a little better, because the Rhodes(?) gives a sonic anchor (or something like that). But it still sounds, basically, like a bunch of guys practicing for Miles' gig, should the call come.

[felser]

20 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ok, "Side 2" sounds only just a little better, because the Rhodes(?) gives a sonic anchor (or something like that). But it still sounds, basically, like a bunch of guys practicing for Miles' gig, should the call come.

And for a couple of them (Liebman, Holland), it did.  But definitely looks like one of those "whole is less than the sum of the parts" cases, given the fascinating front line.  I wouldn't mind owning it, for time and place sake, but not at $25-30.

[JSngry]

Yeah, at that price, you're paying for a portrait when a postcard would likely suffice.

But let me say this - Bob Moses plays really well on this one. I can understand that Jack DeJohnette was in front of a line of which it was unlikely to ever get to the front, but In a parallel universe (or on some lost Big Fun era session), Moses might have made an interesting addition to, say, the Black Beauty type music.

[Rooster_Ties]

BTW (and just an FYI), I got the last 2 recent 'Takt Jazz' Hino titles (that I didn't yet have) in my last Dusty Groove order -- so (god help my pocketbook) -- that means I have all 7 of the new 'Takt Jazz' Hino CD reissues now, *PLUS* all 4 of the 'Deep Reality' Hino CD's too.

My Hino collection (nearly all on CD) is really getting pretty large by this point, and includes about 85%(?) of his entire leader-dates from 1976 and before.  After 1976 though, what I have is really kind of hit-n-miss.

I'm not really sure I needed every last one of these titles, but there's always interesting material on nearly every one of them -- some more key than others, though, for sure.

I'm thinking I may start a whole 'nother Terumasa Hino thread, to discuss all his leader-dates, in order -- one by one -- with as many different examples (mostly uploads from YouTube) as I can find.  I think you can sample full-length tracks from about 70% of the first decade of Hino's leader-dates (1967-1976) -- but a lot of them aren't clearly identified on YouTube (but you can figure them out if you also have them on CD, in part from the track-times).  Sometimes it takes searching on specific song-titles only (without Hino's name even).  Or searching with his name in Japanese, i.e.: 日野 皓正.

Such a thread would I figure be helpful/useful to those just digging into his output, since some of it can be a little tricky to sort out.  Where I can't find uploads, I'll try and give some descriptive reviews, and of course others can chime in with what they think too.

I think I have around 25 of Hino's leader-dates on CD, and maybe another 6-8 sideman appearances too.  I'll have to list them all.

[felser]

5 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I'm thinking I may start a whole 'nother Terumasa Hino thread, to discuss all his leader-dates, in order -- one by one -- with as many different examples (mostly uploads from YouTube) as I can find.

I'd be very interested in sampling that thread!

[soulpope]

Definitely interested in such thread ....

[corto maltese]

On 1/14/2019 at 10:29 PM, JSngry said:

I've started on Hino's Journey To Air today and...seriously? Other than Bob Moses, I hear little music and quite a lot of "free jazz" gestures, like ok, this is the time for this, so let's do it, and then what happens? Ok, we've done this. Then what? Maybe if I had heard it in its time I'd have warm fuzzies for it today. But I didn't. And...I don't.

All of the motion, none of the meat, and Bullmoose Jackson to the contrary, I like both. Togehter. In the same place. At the same time.

On 1/16/2019 at 2:33 AM, JSngry said:

Ok, "Side 2" sounds only just a little better, because the Rhodes(?) gives a sonic anchor (or something like that). But it still sounds, basically, like a bunch of guys practicing for Miles' gig, should the call come.

On 1/16/2019 at 2:55 AM, felser said:

And for a couple of them (Liebman, Holland), it did.  But definitely looks like one of those "whole is less than the sum of the parts" cases, given the fascinating front line.  I wouldn't mind owning it, for time and place sake, but not at $25-30.

On 1/16/2019 at 1:42 PM, JSngry said:

Yeah, at that price, you're paying for a portrait when a postcard would likely suffice.

But let me say this - Bob Moses plays really well on this one. I can understand that Jack DeJohnette was in front of a line of which it was unlikely to ever get to the front, but In a parallel universe (or on some lost Big Fun era session), Moses might have made an interesting addition to, say, the Black Beauty type music.

I really think that "sub-Miles" argument against "Journey To Air"  is somewhat unfair to Hino. 

I like those "free jazz gestures". But for those who prefer a bit more structure, just consider Teo Macero's crucial role as editor/producer of Miles' celebrated free-fusion albums. Hino produced his albums himself with much more limited means (budget, studio time...). For me the results are impressive and very enjoyable.

[JSngry]

Not sure if "unfair to Hino" is really a consideration. The record is what it is, it happened when it did, the players were who they are, and there sit the results. None of this music happens without Miles doing his thing first. The music stands or falls on its own merits, but there are still real-world baselines against it can/should be evaluated. Other hino records have a bit more distinct an identity, but this one, imo, is not one of those.

The Teo question is fully legit, but in this case tempered by something like Black Beauty and other live shows that Teo did not do his thing with. That music was played in real time, and still exists. Again, there is a baseline for anybody who looks for one. At 30 bucks a pop, I'm looking for one.

I forgot to post this when I listened, but I like the record with Bartz a lot more than Rooster did. And Hino drops the Miles thing more or less completely here, in favor of a Shaw/Tolliver angle. The whole thing sounds like a lost Strata-East/Milestone date, with Bartz, and especially Gravatt in prime form. I like the guitarist as well. This music sounds more bitterly formed than the other one.

[Niko]

as a side note, those four new reissues are also available on spotify...

[Rooster_Ties]

54 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Not sure if "unfair to Hino" is really a consideration. The record is what it is, it happened when it did, the players were who they are, and there sit the results. None of this music happens without Miles doing his thing first. The music stands or falls on its own merits, but there are still real-world baselines against it can/should be evaluated. Other hino records have a bit more distinct an identity, but this one, imo, is not one of those.

The Teo question is fully legit, but in this case tempered by something like Black Beauty and other live shows that Teo did not do his thing with. That music was played in real time, and still exists. Again, there is a baseline for anybody who looks for one. At 30 bucks a pop, I'm looking for one.

I forgot to post this when I listened, but I like the record with Bartz a lot more than Rooster did. And Hino drops the Miles thing more or less completely here, in favor of a Shaw/Tolliver angle. The whole thing sounds like a lost Strata-East/Milestone date, with Bartz, and especially Gravatt in prime form. I like the guitarist as well. This music sounds more bitterly formed than the other one.

Since Hino is clearly reacting more in real-time to the changing musical world (or world of Miles) going on around him, rightly so (or not) I've always cut him a little slack because he seems to be trying to integrate Miles' changing language into his own.  Maybe it's because Hino is just a stronger player (with more ideas, imho), but I've always felt he was more successful (generally) in his various endeavors from his debut in '67 up through '75 or so -- than say Kenny Cox' quintet in '68 & 69 (which was clearly heavily inspired by Miles 2nd quintet, circa 1967).  That isn't to say I don't enjoy those 2 Kenny Cox BN dates for what they are (I do really like them), even if they aren't are refined as the real deal (in '67).

Similarly I judge Hino as not quite being there too, though I think he gets closer (in terms of group cohesion, 'telepathy' (for lack of a better term), and the strength of the soloists Hino had in his bands was generally a bit strong than Kenny Cox' quintet too).  ALSO, it seems (to me) like Hino was always behind Miles by about a year, and he also seemed to be 'evolving' somewhat in sync with Miles -- though these 4 new "free" albums give a whole new perspective I never knew about.

Also, (re: Teo's influence), I think it needs to be said that MILES and his groups were never as cohesive (live) after ~1970, as they were all during the 2nd Quintet and Lost Quintet years.  Miles and groups were probably more cohesive live (and more often) than Hino's during the same timeframe (in the first half of the 70's) -- but the difference is probably not vastly different.  Whoever said Miles benefited from having a "Teo" -- and that Hino could have used a "Teo" was probably right.

Maybe I'm a glass-is-half-full (rather than half-empty) kind of guy, but I still think it's rather remarkable how many highs Hino got to over the course of ~8 years (and maybe longer -- I really haven't ventured into his post-1976 material much).

Also interesting, Jim, that yours and my reactions to Journey To Air and the other one with Bartz were almost exactly switched.  Didn't help that the Bartz one sounded like it was recorded in a large bucket, but I also didn't feel like the smaller-group (the one with Bartz) added anything at all in terms group interplay.  I just felt like it was way more unfocussed, with a whole lot LESS thought.  Frankly, it felt like an unplanned, nearly totally-free blowing session (been a few weeks since I heard it, I'll have to spin it again).

Whereas Journey To Air -- while it did sound more episodic, it almost reminded me of the way something like Trey Anastasio's "Surrender to the Air" group/album worked (the one with Sun Ra alums Michael Ray and Marshall Allen, along with John Medeski and Marc Ribot, along with others).  It was free, but had an overall structure, and floated back and forth between different textures and periods of free interspersed with more organized free-sections (stuff that I think(?) reminds me a little of how Frank Zappa's "Approximate" worked -- isn't that the one that was notated rhythmically, but the players choose the notes to play)?  Clearly the effect of "Approximate" is WAY more dense, and specific -- but my point is that Journey To Air -- while it's all pretty "free" -- there's lots of parts that are more organized than others, and everything is pretty episodic.

Frankly, I was really surprised at how much I liked Journey To Air -- which I hadn't expected to like a ton based on my just skimming through it initially.  But the one with Gary Bartz was just a total slog for me, top to bottom.  Different strokes, I guess.

[JSngry]

Comparing Hino and Kenny Cox relative to Miles, that's kinda like picking out carpet for your house based on what looks good in the hall closet.

I kid, mostly, but still, just sayin'. No disrespect to either, but, c'mon.

The, which one is it, Journey to Air, sorry, I've heard that whole thing done much more organically than that, it's one of the genres I came of age on. Maybe I'm jaded, but when I say I hear "effects", I just mean that the whole thing strikes me as a groping reaction rather than an organic outgrowth. Nothing really "wrong" with that, per se, that's how growth can happen, but still...Bob Moses, yes, he was organic to that world. The other guys, not so much. They were certainly around it, and were very good neighbors, but all in, did they get their mail in that zip code, even at a PO Box for pickup? Nope.

The thing with Bartz, sure it sounds boxy and crappy and all that. No different than many Strata-East/etc sides. Not a disqualifier for me. I really, really like how Bartz steps outside his soon-to-become somewhat codified language and really stretches. Plus, Eric Gravatt is a total motherfucker on this record. ALL up in it!And hino gets of the Miles tip altogether, which is a nice change.

Miles' live cohesion? Dude, the Sonny Fortune bands were tighter than the proverbial gnat's ass. Wait until/if the Bootleg Series brings some of those shows out. The content distribution is totally different than it was when the music was more or less about "soloing", but oh well about that. Amazingly tight group music.

 

[Rooster_Ties]

I'll agree that Journey To Air doesn't sound especially "organic".  But I still think it hangs together better as a listening experience (at least for me), than the one with Bartz -- and the one with Bartz might very well be more "organic" (but it just was alternately tedious and occasionally torturous even, to my ears).  I get the Strata East reference, but a few of those more woolly Strata East things have never clicked with me either (enough that I'm content to have access to them via YouTube uploads, and I've resisted the temptation to pay through the nose for $30 Japanese CD issues of them).  There's a couple of the lesser Tribe dates that hit me the same way (most of which I have on CD, though a couple were more woolly than I realized before I paid the piper for them).

BTW, I would LOVE for this Hino nugget to come out on CD somehow...

https://www.discogs.com/Terumasa-Hino-Kosuke-Mine-Sadao-Watanabe-Takeru-Muraoka-Masabumi-Kikuchi-Yoshiaki-Masuo-Kunimitsu-In/release/11263311

I only know this one "Freedom Jazz Dance" track, but I can't help but imagine the whole thing is pretty interesting (or at least some of it).  Here's FJD...

 

[corto maltese]

Strictly speaking for myself, it took me quite some time to get rid of all my conscious or unconsious prejudices against Japanese jazz musicians being at best perfect copy-cats. Nowadays, my opinion of Japanese jazz, or rather jazz in Japan, is completely different, especially with regard to the late 60s - early 70s periode. That's why I said "unfair to Hino", when these records are almost routinely (and exclusively) judged against the yardstick of Miles' contemporaneous records.

But hey, I'm not American, so maybe I'm just over-sensitive about this. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by corto maltese

[felser]

10 minutes ago, corto maltese said:

Strictly speaking for myself, it took me quite some time to get rid of all my conscious or unconsious prejudices against Japanese jazz musicians being at best perfect copy-cats. Nowadays, my opinion of Japanese jazz, or rather jazz in Japan, is completely different, especially with regard to the late 60s - early 70s periode. That's why I said "unfair to Hino", when these records are almost routinely (and exclusively) judged against the yardstick of Miles' contemporaneous records.

But hey, I'm not American, so maybe I'm just over-sensitive about this. 

I'm American and I agree with you.  Hino, to me, was not just copying what he heard on his newest Miles Davis album back then.  Influenced by, of course.  Mimicking, no.  One guy I have studied a good bit in recent months is Kenny Cox, through his Strata records venture.  The Blue Notes were not where his heart and ears were, he had something much more ecumenical in mind, for his music and for his record label.  Listen to the "Location" and "Clap Clap" albums (and I recommend that you do), and you hear him heading in very distant shores from the Blue Notes, and you will not be thinking of the Miles Second Quintet as the starting point.  They are not anywhere close to purist jazz, or even to post electric Miles jazz.   Also well worth a listen for non-audiophiles is the Strata album of 1965 live recordings under Bert Myrick's name (though it seems like a Cox album in all but name.  He plays piano and wrote two of the four cuts).  George Bohanon is great on trombone.  If I ever do another BFT and anyone actually listens to it, you'll likely hear Cox on it.

[JSngry]

People all over the world were chasing Miles. I'm  glad we've all gotten rid of our prejudices and or preconceptions, but changes in our personal perceptions do nothing to change the fact that people all over the world were chasing Miles. Why would they not?

It's great that we keep seeing a bigger and bigger yard, but the house is still there, right where it's  always been. That's  not an American thing, that's a Miles thing.