The Music of the Legendary Hasaan

[Late]

Sound samples here. I'm not that familiar with Marsella, but this album cooks.

[jlhoots]

Excellent CD!!!

[JSngry]

who's the drummer?

[Rooster_Ties]

I have a copy of this on the way from The Bastards, in an order placed 2 days ago.

Then NEXT, we all need to lobby this Brian Marsella chap to remake the Valdo Williams Savoy album.  (I'm not kidding either.)

[JSngry]

and then all the Elmo Hope albums! and then all the Bertha Hope albums!

[felser]

17 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I have a copy of this on the way from The Bastards, in an order placed 2 days ago.

Then NEXT, we all need to lobby this Brian Marsella chap to remake the Valdo Williams Savoy album.  (I'm not kidding either.)

I  really like that Valdo Williams album.   Too bad Savoy was recording so little jazz by that time, they were onto something good with it.

[jlhoots]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

who's the drummer?

Anwar Marshall

[soulpope]

9 hours ago, Late said:

Sound samples here. I'm not that familiar with Marsella, but this album cooks.

Looks interesting ....

[Joe]

Intrigued. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Rooster_Ties]

I got this in a shipment from The Bastards last night, and it is pretty darn spectacular (says the guy prone to hyperbole at times, I realize).  Still, I can't imagine a project like this having turned out much better.  All 7 of Hasaan's originals, plus one new tune very much in the same style, by Marsella.

The liners say there's some unreleased archival Hasaan that's coming out as some sort of box set, including rehearsal(s?) for the Roach/Hasaan trio date.  And (I think) maybe a bit of solo-piano too, that I presume Roach recorded.  I'll have to type up the relevant part of the liners about it tonight.  Instant pre-order for me.

These tunes are so strong, and the original album is such a cohesive statement -- and this new interpretation is very faithful to the spirit of the original, without mirroring it too closely.  Drummer is really quite something too -- there's bit about him in the liners too (not lots, but he's also from Philadelphia, as is the entire band).  Had no idea Zorn was behind this.

Very unconventional writing, but not at all off-putting.  My wife loves this (both the original, and what she heard of the new one last night), and the Valdo Williams album too -- and a fair bit of Mal Waldon late 60's/early 70's studio dates (that don't get as long in the tooth as his many live trio recordings), which seem to get at some of the same thing.  The world needs more piano-trio recordings like this.  Not hundreds more, I realize, but at least a few more.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[soulpope]

5 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I got this in a shipment from The Bastards last night, and it is pretty darn spectacular (says the guy prone to hyperbole at times, I realize).  Still, I can't imagine a project like this having turned out much better.  All 7 of Hasaan's originals, plus one new tune very much in the same style, by Marsella.

These tunes are so strong, and the original album is such a cohesive statement -- and this new interpretation is very faithful to the spirit of the original, without mirroring it too closely.  Drummer is really quite something too -- there's bit about him in the liners too (not lots, but he's also from Philadelphia, as is the entire band).  Had no idea Zorn was behind this.

Very unconventional writing, but not at all off-putting.  My wife loves this (both the original, and what she heard of the new one last night), and the Valdo Williams album too -- and a fair bit of Mal Waldon late 60's/early 70's studio dates (that don't get as long in the tooth as his many live trio recordings), which seem to get at some of the same thing.  The world needs more piano-trio recordings like this.  Not hundreds more, I realize, but at least a few more.

Tnnx for sharing  your impressions ...

 

6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

The liners say there's some unreleased archival Hasaan that's coming out as some sort of box set, including rehearsal(s?) for the Roach/Hasaan trio date.  And (I think) maybe a bit of solo-piano too, that I presume Roach recorded.  I'll have to type up the relevant part of the liners about it tonight.  Instant pre-order for me.

!!!

[JSngry]

I'm down with that archival release if/when it happens.

[freejazz]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I'm down with that archival release if/when it happens.

Although I am in the midst of my sell-of, I am certainly with you on this one!

[Rooster_Ties]

Here's what's in the liners about the other Hasaan recordings that may be coming out (all the text is by Marsella)...

• ...Without any other recordings of Hasaan I was worried about just re-creating this one album, and then John [Zorn] sent me some unreleased material of Hasaan's that included a rehearsal recorded for the Max Roach session. (This fascinating material will be made available soon in a box set compiled by Alan Sukoenig and Lewis Porter and is highly recommended.) It was through listening to these recordings that I started to really understand what Hasaan was about, especially harmonically. Hasaan extensively used dominant sharp eleven chords (much like Monk) but moves them even more chromatically than Monk... ...Another outcome of listening to the rehearsal recordings were the ways in which he treated his own thematic material---that is to say, that he always seemed to be extrapolating from the written notes. He never played a melody the same way twice.

And here's a tiny bit about the drummer (Anwar Marshall)...

• ...I immediately thought of Anwar Marshall, an incredible young drummer from Philly that I had known from his playing in the Philly group Fresh Cut Orchestra, co-led by Anwar.

And his entry in Discogs...

• https://www.discogs.com/artist/3383094-Anwar-Marshall

 

[soulpope]

On 7.11.2018 at 2:57 AM, Rooster_Ties said:

Here's what's in the liners about the other Hasaan recordings that may be coming out (all the text is by Marsella)...

• ...Without any other recordings of Hasaan I was worried about just re-creating this one album, and then John [Zorn] sent me some unreleased material of Hasaan's that included a rehearsal recorded for the Max Roach session. (This fascinating material will be made available soon in a box set compiled by Alan Sukoenig and Lewis Porter and is highly recommended.) It was through listening to these recordings that I started to really understand what Hasaan was about, especially harmonically. Hasaan extensively used dominant sharp eleven chords (much like Monk) but moves them even more chromatically than Monk... ...Another outcome of listening to the rehearsal recordings were the ways in which he treated his own thematic material---that is to say, that he always seemed to be extrapolating from the written notes. He never played a melody the same way twice.

And here's a tiny bit about the drummer (Anwar Marshall)...

• ...I immediately thought of Anwar Marshall, an incredible young drummer from Philly that I had known from his playing in the Philly group Fresh Cut Orchestra, co-led by Anwar.

And his entry in Discogs...

• https://www.discogs.com/artist/3383094-Anwar-Marshall

 

Thnx for sharing ....

[Rooster_Ties]

Anyone else have this yet?  Easily one of the 10 best CD's I've bought in the last 5 years.  Hard to fathom how little Hasaan's music has been covered/remade over the years.

I did a deep dive a couple weeks ago with Google and primarily through Discogs, and I think there may be as few as 5(!) covers of Hasaan's tunes (other than this new tribute CD), over the 50+ years since The Legendary was first recorded.

Don't sleep on this one, it's a stunner.

[soulpope]

4 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Anyone else have this yet?  Easily one of the 10 best CD's I've bought in the last 5 years.  Hard to fathom how little Hasaan's music has been covered/remade over the years.

I did a deep dive a couple weeks ago with Google and primarily through Discogs, and I think there may be as few as 5(!) covers of Hasaan's tunes (other than this new tribute CD), over the 50+ years since The Legendary was first recorded.

Don't sleep on this one, it's a stunner.

I'm waiting for Santa 😎 ....

[ghost of miles]

Any word on if the box set will include Ali's followup quartet session that he recorded for Atlantic, which may have been located recently?

[relyles]

14 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Anyone else have this yet?  Easily one of the 10 best CD's I've bought in the last 5 years.  Hard to fathom how little Hasaan's music has been covered/remade over the years.

I did a deep dive a couple weeks ago with Google and primarily through Discogs, and I think there may be as few as 5(!) covers of Hasaan's tunes (other than this new tribute CD), over the 50+ years since The Legendary was first recorded.

Don't sleep on this one, it's a stunner.

I have it and agree that it s a strong release.

[felser]

2 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

Any word on if the box set will include Ali's followup quartet session that he recorded for Atlantic, which may have been located recently?

Who are the musicians on that one?  I came up empty on a google search.

[ghost of miles]

31 minutes ago, felser said:

Who are the musicians on that one?  I came up empty on a google search.

This is from Ibn Ali's Wiki entry:

"Ibn Ali had further studio sessions, with Odean Pope, Art Davis and drummer Khalil Madi, on August 23 and September 7, 1965.^[14] However, the master tapes of the unreleased recordings were said to have been destroyed in a fire at the record label's warehouse^[9][14] in 1976.^[15] Pope believed that the recordings were not released by Atlantic because the label found out that the pianist had been imprisoned shortly after the sessions.^[4] The saxophonist reported in 2018 that the tapes had been found and their release was being considered.^[4] "

Edited December 7, 2018 by ghost of miles

[jlhoots]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:20 PM, jlhoots said:

Excellent CD!!!

Still excellent!! 

[felser]

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

This is from Ibn Ali's Wiki entry:

"Ibn Ali had further studio sessions, with Odean Pope, Art Davis and drummer Khalil Madi, on August 23 and September 7, 1965.^[14] However, the master tapes of the unreleased recordings were said to have been destroyed in a fire at the record label's warehouse^[9][14] in 1976.^[15] Pope believed that the recordings were not released by Atlantic because the label found out that the pianist had been imprisoned shortly after the sessions.^[4] The saxophonist reported in 2018 that the tapes had been found and their release was being considered.^[4] "

Wow, would LOVE to hear that, would buy it in a heartbeat.  Had no knowledge that Pope had recorded before the 1972 first album by Catalyst.

[Kalo]

Sounds right up my alley. Will definitely be checking this out. 

Athens-born, Boston-based pianist Pandelis Karayorgis’ Fender-Rhodes-centered trio, with bassist Nate McBride and drummer Curt Newton, includes all of Hasaan’s tunes in its repertoire. “Off My Back Jack” appears on their hatOLOGY release “Betwixt.”

[bertrand]

Excellent CD, thanks to Rooster for the recommendation.

Whenever I hear about unknown compositions, I always feel compelled to dig further, especially since I have seen these unknown pieces in the Roach Collection at the Library of Congress.

So the CD with Roach has 7 Hasaan Ibn Ali compositions:

Three-four Vs. Six-eight Four-four Ways
Off my Back Jack
Hope so Elmo
Almost Like Me
Din-Ka Street
Pay not Play not
To Inscribe

The first six pieces are on the Marsella CD, but not 'To Inscribe'. In addition to a Marsella original, there is another Hasaan piece, 'Per Aspera Ad Astra'. It does not sound like 'To Inscribe' under another title.

So where does this piece come from?

Here is the finding aid for the Roach Collection:

http://findingaids.loc.gov/db/search/xq/searchMfer02.xq?_id=loc.music.eadmus.mu016007&_faSection=overview&_faSubsection=did&_dmdid=d581e6&_q=&_type=610$a&_displayTerm

The Hasaan material includes:

1) A unique solo piano recording by the elusive Philadelphia pianist Hasaan Ibn Ali.

Is this the rehearsal for the record with Roach as suggested by the liner notes to the Marsella CD? In this case, it would be the same tunes.

 

2) The collection also features several holograph manuscripts of Hasaan Ibn Ali.

Here are the details:

1. Department (or) Apartment By Hasaan Ibn Ali Holograph manuscript parts

2. Dinka Street By Hasaan Ibn Ali

3. El Hasaan By Hasaan Ibn Ali Holograph manuscript double bass part (chords only) Double bass part (chords only) for "Never too late fate" on verso

4. Key to appreciation By Hasaan Ibn Ali Holograph manuscript sketches

5. Max's factor By Hasaan Ibn Ali Holograph manuscript parts (saxophone, trumpet, trombone, double bass)

6. Never too late fate By Hasaan Ibn Ali Holograph manuscript lead sheet, parts (saxophone, double bass) Double bass part (chords only) for "El Hasaan" on verso of double bass part

7. Three four vs. six eight four four ways By Hasaan Ibn Ali; arranged by Odean Pope Violin 2 part

Two of these are on the Roach record, the other five are not. None of the five are 'Per Aspera Ad Astra'.

So where did 'Per Aspera Ad Astra' come from? Mike Fitzgerald has this for the Lost Atlantic session with Odean Pope:

https://jazzdiscography.com/Leaders/AliHasaanIbn-ldr.php

So now we get 8 more titles (if you count Metaphysics), one of which El Hasaan is in the Roach collection. And another is 'Per Aspera Ad Astra'.

So how did the Marsella trio get a hold of 'Per Aspera Ad Astra' so they could record it. I can see only three options:

1. They had access to the lost session, it seems someone does, most likely Odean Pope.

2. It is on that rehearsal tape at LC, not likely.

3. It is an a stash of unknown pieces that no one knew about but that suddenly appeared recently when a family member appeared out of the blue. I have heard no mention of this happening with Hasaan, but it has happened before.

To be continued...

Bertrand.

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by bertrand