obscure 1964 Friedrich Gulda piano trio album, with Jimmie Rowser & Albert Heath (a little bit progressive?)

[Gheorghe]

23 hours ago, jlhoots said:

I saw Tootie tonight at the George Cables concert in Albuquerque. He said he remembered very well playing with Gulda. According to Tootie, Gulda was eccentric & once played a concert in the nude.

That´s it. Tootie is such a fantastic drummer . I would have liked to hear him with George Cables. George Cables fascinates me much more than Gulda does.But it speaks much for Tootie that he tried it. Others wouldn´t have been so kind and patient. I think Al Foster might have got annoyed if a pianoplayer couldn´t swing. He refused to play with Milcho Levieff,  but Milcho is much more into it than Gulda ever was. So I think it must have been hard work for Tootie to keep the stuff together, and maybe that´s what he remembers about that session......

[Rooster_Ties]

I spun (span?) the LP again that I got in Raleigh (that I started this thread about), and I'm still finding it sort of fascinating.  It's not a "great" album, but what is great about it is it's utter lack of clichéd playing.  No turnarounds, and no changes that I've heard a 1,000 times in other contexts.

It's like someone found a classical player in 1964 -- and had him listen to a bunch of Mal Waldron trio records from 1969-75 -- then bought him a few shots of bourbon for courage, and sat him down with a quality rhythm-section that could just "go with it".

I said it before, but the utter LACK of conventional swing is what I find the most fascinating.  I'll have to think about this, but I think this specific 1964 Gulda album "swings" LESS than Mal does/did circa 69-75.

It's nowhere as 'all in' as Mal was, but I think that's also part of what I like abou this funny Gulda date (but which I've not heard in any of the other albums of his that I've sampled from YouTube).  This one is a little more exploratory -- not more 'out' -- but more like he's just trying to feel around and see what's possible -- what works, and what doesn't.  Especially on the one side-length tune.

All of which redoubles my long held wish that Herbie Hancock had done a 'percussive' piano-trio album circa 1966-67, playing like he did on The All Seeing Eye, Some Other Stuff, and The Trainwreck.  Granted, this Gulda album isn't that (and nowhere close) -- but they could have been distant cousins.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Rooster_Ties

[clifford_thornton]

I like that Anima record mentioned above. Saw Limpe Fuchs do a concert of music (on her homemade instruments) in a park here in NY last year. Fun stuff. Very quiet.

[mjazzg]

Cool, and I missed Limpe Fuchs playing with Eva Parker at Oto earlier this year. Love Anima's 'Monte Alto' which is the only one I've heard

[Rooster_Ties]

On 10/15/2018 at 10:11 PM, Rooster_Ties said:

YouTube upload of the entire album I started this thread about back in October:

 

I gave this same (obscure) Friedrich Gilda LP a couple spins over the weekend, and was reminded again what a delightful little recording this is.  Not to make it out to be substantially more than it is, but it's definitely got a different sensibility about it.

And I followed it up by spinning Joanne Brackeen's 1979 trio album Keyed In (never on CD, far as I know) -- which also is a bit outside the norm too, kind of in a similarly ambitious sort of way (though by 1979, such piano-trio albums were a little more the norm).  My wife really enjoyed both too, I'll add.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Rooster_Ties

[soulpope]

10 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

I gave this same (obscure) Friedrich Gilda LP a couple spins over the weekend, and was reminded again what a delightful little recording this is.  Not to make it out to be substantially more than it is, but it's definitely got a different sensibility about it.

And I followed it up by spinning Joanne Brackeen's 1979 trio album Keyed In (never on CD, far as I know) -- which also is a bit outside the norm too, kind of in a similarly ambitious sort of way (though by 1979, such piano-trio albums were a little more the norm).  My wife really enjoyed both too, I'll add.

 

Although with my faves Jimmy Woode + Totie Heath the Gulda platter left me - even after numerous listens - somehow cold .... Gulda seems being stuck in  no man's land between classical and jazz- oriented approach .... btw the Brackeen Trio is superb ....

[EKE BBB]

6 minutes ago, soulpope said:

Although with my faves Jimmy Woode + Totie Heath the Gulda platter left me - even after numerous listens - somehow cold .... Gulda seems being stuck in  no man's land between classical and jazz- oriented approach .... btw the Brackeen Trio is superb ....

Those are exactly my feelings with Gulda. Superb technique but... I am missing something...

[Rooster_Ties]

12 hours ago, soulpope said:

Although with my faves Jimmy Woode + Totie Heath the Gulda platter left me - even after numerous listens - somehow cold .... Gulda seems being stuck in  no man's land between classical and jazz- oriented approach .... btw the Brackeen Trio is superb ....

 

12 hours ago, EKE BBB said:

Those are exactly my feelings with Gulda. Superb technique but... I am missing something...

I'm not wildly in disagreement with either of you.  I'm not so much "moved" by the obscure Guilda date I started this whole thread about, as I am genuinely intrigued by it (in a way that makes it interesting and almost 'fun' to listen to).  Guilda hasn't mastered (or at least hasn't embraced) the kind of language most jazz pianist would have been playing in 1964.  In that respect, (I'm supposing) he never had to "un-learn" a lot of clichéd licks found in a lot of other pianists playing around that time. AND YET, his technique and 'touch' are really quite nice.

It's like he's VERY fluent in how to handle the instrument, but he's NOT speaking his native language with it -- so he doesn't know what NOT to do, nor does he do too much of what anyone else would have done.  There's a sort of very skilled but naïve authenticity about the whole thing that I kind of like.

[soulpope]

14 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

 

I'm not wildly in disagreement with either of you.  I'm not so much "moved" by the obscure Guilda date I started this whole thread about, as I am genuinely intrigued by it (in a way that makes it interesting and almost 'fun' to listen to).  Guilda hasn't mastered (or at least hasn't embraced) the kind of language most jazz pianist would have been playing in 1964.  In that respect, (I'm supposing) he never had to "un-learn" a lot of clichéd licks found in a lot of other pianists playing around that time. AND YET, his technique and 'touch' are really quite nice.

It's like he's VERY fluent in how to handle the instrument, but he's NOT speaking his native language with it -- so he doesn't know what NOT to do, nor does he do too much of what anyone else would have done.  There's a sort of very skilled but naïve authenticity about the whole thing that I kind of like.

I believe we are describing - from different ankles - very similar impressions .... as mentioned I`ve tried to make it nearer to my heart, but it simply didn`t work (at least that way) ....

[JSngry]

If we're going to listen to a Joanne Brackeen record, it might as well be Ancient Dynasty.

[Peter Friedman]

On 11/20/2018 at 10:46 PM, Gheorghe said:

That´s it. Tootie is such a fantastic drummer . I would have liked to hear him with George Cables. George Cables fascinates me much more than Gulda does.But it speaks much for Tootie that he tried it. Others wouldn´t have been so kind and patient. I think Al Foster might have got annoyed if a pianoplayer couldn´t swing. He refused to play with Milcho Levieff,  but Milcho is much more into it than Gulda ever was. So I think it must have been hard work for Tootie to keep the stuff together, and maybe that´s what he remembers about that session......

Just came across this comment by Tootie Heath regarding Milcho Leviev.  Tootie and I agree. I saw Milcho live a couple of years ago, and was completely unimpressed regarding his jazz capabilities. Also have heard him on a few Art Pepper albums with the same reaction. I realize that there are many jazz listeners who think very highly of him and give great praise to his playing with Art Pepper.

There are a large number of Art Pepper recordings on my shelves, and I prefer every other pianist who played with Art over Milcho. He did not swing, and lacked an authentic jazz feeling in his playing. Of course that is just my personal opinion. 

 

[Peter Friedman]

Here are 3 Gulda jazz CDs on my shelf.

[Rooster_Ties]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

If we're going to listen to a Joanne Brackeen record, it might as well be Ancient Dynasty.

True, but over the weekend I realized I've listened to Ancient Dynasty (with and because of Joe Henderson) probably 5x (maybe 10x?) as many times as Keyed In (trio only).

Both are really damn good, and I'd pay a bit of a premium for either one (or both) on CD -- though neither have ever been issued on CD.

[soulpope]

8 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

Just came across this comment by Tootie Heath regarding Milcho Leviev.  Tootie and I agree. I saw Milcho live a couple of years ago, and was completely unimpressed regarding his jazz capabilities. Also have heard him on a few Art Pepper albums with the same reaction. I realize that there are many jazz listeners who think very highly of him and give great praise to his playing with Art Pepper.

There are a large number of Art Pepper recordings on my shelves, and I prefer every other pianist who played with Art over Milcho. He did not swing, and lacked an authentic jazz feeling in his playing. Of course that is just my personal opinion. 

Interesting .... to me Leviev's stint with Art Pepper was a major factor to raise the performances to another level .... so different strokes I believe ....

[JSngry]

21 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

True, but over the weekend I realized I've listened to Ancient Dynasty (with and because of Joe Henderson) probably 5x (maybe 10x?) as many times as Keyed In (trio only).

Exactly.

[HomageToDonByas]

In this brief 2017 Interlude article, Gulda is cited as Martha Argerich's biggest pianist influence. She says he taught her how to listen. https://interlude.hk/sorcerers-apprentice-friedrich-gulda-martha-argerich/