New Woody Herman Mosaic

[gmonahan]

9 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

I still want --- nay, demand! -- a set of Benny Goodman's '30s sides. They've done every other major band leader -- Duke, Count, Artie, Jimmie Lunceford, three Woody Hermans,  and Benny's Columbia sides -- but his best period remains neglected.

Most of BG's Victors have been reissued on cd before. When that's the case, Mosaic tends to be a lot more hesitant, but I guess it's always possible--maybe a Savory set of Goodmans, assuming they could ever get the Estate to clear it.

I think this whole business of trying to be sure they had enough preorders to do the Herman set was an improvisation, and my guess is they didn't know when they started it that 700 would be the magic number. I agree with those who argue that if they're going to do this in the future, they need to give us a number from the gitgo. I have the distinct sense, though, that this has been a learning process for them!

 

 

gregmo

[EKE BBB]

I'm in. Just preordered this set, together with the Savory and the Teddy Wilson. Autumn listening guaranteed! 

[sidewinder]

As soon as jazzmessengers have it in stock, I’ll be on to this set. 

[jazztrain]

32 minutes ago, gmonahan said:

Most of BG's Victors have been reissued on cd before. When that's the case, Mosaic tends to be a lot more hesitant, but I guess it's always possible--maybe a Savory set of Goodmans, assuming they could ever get the Estate to clear it.

I think this whole business of trying to be sure they had enough preorders to do the Herman set was an improvisation, and my guess is they didn't know when they started it that 700 would be the magic number. I agree with those who argue that if they're going to do this in the future, they need to give us a number from the gitgo. I have the distinct sense, though, that this has been a learning process for them!

 

 

gregmo

When I saw Scott a few months ago, he said that the Goodman and Ellington estates had thus far been uncooperative with respect to allowing the issue of material from Savoy.  

[Bluesnik]

On 28/08/2018 at 0:23 PM, Big Beat Steve said:

Still they have never been cheap and their box sets above all rely on extremely high standards (to the extent that they often really are too much of a good thing

This applies exactly to the Jutta Hipp box, which is marvelous. It has a very heavy coffeetable book with text in German and English, that's very, very good. With memries from Hipp and wartime stories. And even some of her drawings and paintings.

[Big Beat Steve]

41 minutes ago, Bluesnik said:

This applies exactly to the Jutta Hipp box, which is marvelous. It has a very heavy coffeetable book with text in German and English, that's very, very good. With memries from Hipp and wartime stories. And even some of her drawings and paintings.

Except that the Jutta Hipp box is NOT from Bear Family but from Micha Gottschalk who runs the BE!SHARP and BE!JAZZ labels. 

He's the one I alluded to in an earlier post. His books are truly excellent that IMO rank on a level with those of Bear Family but he uses P.D. music material which is a financial advantage (and the saying goes that some were a bit underwhelmed when aurally checking some of the material on his BE!SHARP reissues). Though in fairness it needs to be said that apparently his MOD Records box set, for example, had the blessings of some surviving musicians from those sessions.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[Bluesnik]

But I bought it from Bear Familiy , but now I see it's an Be! jazz release and Micha Gottschalk is credited as the producer of the box. And I was sure it was from Bear Family... Thanks for pointing that out.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Bluesnik
note on Gottschalk added

[Big Beat Steve]

35 minutes ago, Bluesnik said:

But I bought it from Bear Familiy , but now I see it's an Be! jazz release. And I was sure it was from Bear Family... Thanks for pointing that out.

An oversight that can easily happen. The overall presentation is smilar and the books can hold their own. You know the first box set I bought from that label (out of only 2 so far admittedly - the other one is the MOD Records set) was the "Texas Box" on the BE!SHARP label featuring Texas rockabilly. This was the label's first box set and the seller I bought it from told me that when the Bear Family people first saw the book to that one they were in tears.

[gmonahan]

8 hours ago, jazztrain said:

When I saw Scott a few months ago, he said that the Goodman and Ellington estates had thus far been uncooperative with respect to allowing the issue of material from Savoy.  

Yes, that's what I heard about the Goodmans from Loren Schoenberg when I talked to him a few years ago. He said the Estate wanted way too much money.

 

 

 

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

@Captain Howdy:

Since you seem to have explored this body of recordings thoroughly:

Assuming you have all the RCA Bluebird twofer LPs from the 70s, would you have all of these (minus the alt. takes probably) that we're talking aobut here?

[gmonahan]

There are also the six volumes of "The Indispensable Benny Goodman" on RCA's European Black and White series, and that label's Complete Small Groups set.

 

 

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

 

No, I don't have any vinyl nor even a turntable. 

@Captain Howdy:

I wasn't specifically talking about YOU but about whether "one" would have all the material you are referring to here if "one" had all these Bluebirds twofers? I.e. I was asking a discographical question. See what I mean?

More specifically, I have about 4 of these 8 twofers (and no doubt would be able to source more if looking closer) plus the run of the RCA Black & White 2-albums sets and a number of other BG RCA-period orchestra and small group vinyls (plus the occasional CD compilation) so I guess I have what I'd want to have. But of course the Bluebirds look like they would cover the grounds in the most straightforward manner.

And FWIW to me the Bluebird twofer reissues (regardless of which band) do not sound that bad.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks! Did a quick spot check starting from the end and see a few female vocals are not in your list that are on the LPs. Will have to check against my copy of Rust, maybe.

[Big Beat Steve]

I wouldn't hold it against you that you dislike THESE songs. Probably same here if I were to narrow down the selections. I was just wondering because the Jimmy Rushing vocal was in there and so were 1 or 2 Martha Tilton vocals. So no clear criteria for exclusion that were discernible.

But never mind. I will check elsewhere. I just thought I'd ask you (as someone who'd checked BG's output closely) because as opposed to discographies like those by Rust or even Bruyninckx there may be more TODAY that have since been issued and would now be part of whatever reissue project there is.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[jazztrain]

1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

Oh, nuts. I just realized that that's my playlist I posted, so I probably excluded songs I dislike, and most of those would be vocals. I see that I excluded "Popcorn Man", for instance. So it's not complete after all. Sorry. I used BG on the Record; A Bio-Discography of Benny Goodman to compile the list, so if the LPs follow my list roughly it's likely that they include most of his recordings.

The original issue of "Popcorn Man" was withdrawn shortly after it was issued, so the 78 is rather scarce.

[ghost of miles]

Re the forthcoming Herman Mosaic, Jeff Sultanof will be doing the booklet notes.

[JSngry]

Who is he?

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Who is he?

I know him primarily from his participation in Mike Fitzgerald's jazz-research listserv.  He's written a book I'd like to read called Experiencing Big Band Jazz:  A Listener's Companion.

And here's his bio.

 

[JSngry]

ok, thanks.

How many of the key people from these sessions are still alive? Hopefully they've been reached out to. I always love hearing recollections from people who were there.

[Big Beat Steve]

35 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

I know him primarily from his participation in Mike Fitzgerald's jazz-research listserv.  He's written a book I'd like to read called Experiencing Big Band Jazz:  A Listener's Companion.

And here's his bio.

 

Not wanting to dismiss him too rashly but for obvious reasons of interest in the music of that era I've had this on my Amazon buying list for some time but reading the reviews in various places has left me with rather mixed feelings about the depth of coverage and I've put it on hold for the time being.
Quite apart from all the other books on the Swing era, where would this book fit in and add something profoundly new as a listener's guide beyond the "Swing" volume of the "Third Ear" listening companion book series (which I rather like) and the "Music Hound Essential Album Guide" on Swing (which I had bought before the Third Ear book and still find useful but prefer the Third Ear book now). I do wonder what kind of "companion" this one REALLY is and if he aims at more than the total or almost total newbies to the music. OTOH, if he can provide an up to date guide to where to pick the best reissue(s) by the Floyd Ray band (to name just ONE example ) , then I'll be won over.

Edit:Checking again I see that the post-swing big bands of jazz covered in the book should add something new vs the above-listedbooks but I wonder about the balance of it all. Will probably have to check sample pages somewhere.

But what I can say I don't like (if the reviews are right in this respect) is listening recommendations based on Youtube. This is for tasters, fast consumption but not for ongoing listening. Besides, how fast is a book based on Youtube availability going to be outdated? (No, I'm not on Facebook and won't be)

Edited August 31, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[ghost of miles]

8 hours ago, JSngry said:

ok, thanks.

How many of the key people from these sessions are still alive? Hopefully they've been reached out to. I always love hearing recollections from people who were there.

Not sure--the set ends in 1954, right?  Seems unlikely that many (if any) are still around, but I think Sultanof would indeed try to reach out to them.  From what I've read of his writing, I think he'll be very good on the music itself.  

[Larry Kart]

12 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Not sure--the set ends in 1954, right?  Seems unlikely that many (if any) are still around, but I think Sultanof would indeed try to reach out to them.  From what I've read of his writing, I think he'll be very good on the music itself.  

Randy Marsh's father tenorman Arno Marsh is still with us I believe, and he was a mainstay in the Herman band in the Mars label era. Randy was the original  drummer in Organissimo, and a damn fine drummer too.

Sultanof bio:
http://www.ejazzlines.com/pages/about-us/jeff-sultanof-biography/

Also go to Doug Ramsey's blog Rifftides and enter Sultanof's name in the search box. He's made a number of interesting posts there over the years. 

[Ted O'Reilly]

29 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

Also go to Doug Ramsey's blog Rifftides and enter Sultanof's name in the search box. He's made a number of interesting posts there over the years. 

You beat me to it...  Sultanof does seem to know his stuff, and writes well about it.

[Larry Kart]

BTW, Jim, Sultanof is an expert on Robert Farnon's music; he worked with Farnon on getting authoritative scores in shape and published. Also, do you know Farnon's arrangement of "Laura"? Good grief!
 

 

[JSngry]

Who else besides Arno Marsh? Last we heard here, Arno was alive and well. Hope that's still the case.

I do know Robert Farnon, although his later work more than his earlier.