New Woody Herman Mosaic

[Jim Duckworth]

So, I just got a shipping notification on the new Mosaic Woody Herman box and am I ever taken aback!  I wasn't expecting to hear from them for six months on this one.  

[mjzee]

I got an email too, but the Herman is listed under "backordered items."  I wonder if this means they've decided to proceed with it.

Yup!  Just checked the Mosaic site - it's now listed under Upcoming Releases.  http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=267-MD-CD

[ghost of miles]

So will Apple/iTunes’ move to stop selling downloads next year make Amazon the default download place to go? What other major online music distributors sell downloads? (I’m unacquainted with the market for downloads, CD dinosaur that I am—have used iTunes only for the initial Savory volumes and Amazon occasionally for tracks that I needed for radio shows.)

Edited August 18, 2018 by ghost of miles

[Scott Dolan]

3 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

So will Apple/iTunes’ move to stop selling downloads next year make Amazon the default download place to go? What other major online music distributors sell downloads? (I’m unacquainted with the market for downloads, CD dinosaur that I am—have used iTunes only for the initial Savory volumes and Amazon occasionally for tracks that I needed for radio shows.)

I’ll believe the Apple download thing when it actually happens. The demise of the iTunes store has been breathlessly rumored for several years. 

[ghost of miles]

6 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I’ll believe the Apple download thing when it actually happens. The demise of the iTunes store has been breathlessly rumored for several years. 

There was an Apple rep at the JazzSummit last week, and he didn’t repudiate it when the organizers made their statement. It came up in part because smaller independent labels are evidently worried about their viability once it comes to pass. I mentioned it to a jazz prof here at IU a couple of days ago, and he already knew about it. (He’s dismayed as well because iTunes is generally considered by jazz musicians to be better in terms of artist compensation than Spotify, which gets little to no love from the artists I know.) Evidently Apple really wants to push people towards their streaming service. 

[Scott Dolan]

But their streaming service still pays out better than Spotify. So I’m wondering what the issue is? 

[gmonahan]

On 8/17/2018 at 3:38 PM, mjzee said:

I got an email too, but the Herman is listed under "backordered items."  I wonder if this means they've decided to proceed with it.

Yup!  Just checked the Mosaic site - it's now listed under Upcoming Releases.  http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=267-MD-CD

Yes, that was an odd one--the first time I've ever pre-ordered a set before its release and received a notice that it was on backorder! I assume it's just the way they're doing the accounting, but it was pretty goofy!

 

 

gregmo

[mikeweil]

 

[David Ayers]

On 18/08/2018 at 3:13 PM, Scott Dolan said:

But their streaming service still pays out better than Spotify. So I’m wondering what the issue is? 

https://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/18/03/30/fake-news-apple-isnt-killing-itunes-music-downloads

[JSngry]

 

[Jay]

On August 17, 2018 at 1:33 PM, psu_13 said:

The one I remember best is the Mosaic Art Blakey set. This set had some production issues, I gather, that made one or two of the CDs in the set go bad. I have seen multiple copies of this set where disk 1 or 2 is just not readable, including the one I bought back in the day. Luckily I already had a lossless copy of this when I discovered that the disks had gone bad.

I've had some other CDs look like the have delaminated or at least changed color on the data side. But they were still readable so I made rips of them that appear to be OK.

In general my assumption is that retail CDs will not be that permanent, and having rips and multiple copies of the data is probably a  good idea. CD-R is even less so, since it depends on dyes that will certainly fade over time.

FWIW there does exist software that attempts to make a "bit perfect" copy of the CD and estimates how well it does using checksums collected on the Internet from other users who ripped copies of the same recordings. You can use this to figure out if old disks that you suspect may have gone bad actually have gone bad. 😃 

Thank you for the info.  I guess I am lucky.  No problems with my Blakey set.  As for downloads, I have only downloaded a few since this format was introduced (never mp3s) but it is always via Bandcamp.  It is nice to have a physical product to me, since downloads are really worthless in my book. 

Getting back to the topic.  I pre-ordered so I am looking forward to this.  Pretty much all new music to me but I've been on a Herman bender lately with the other 3 Mosaics.  Lots of wonderful music.  Thanks to others that posted some of the more obscure records.  Sal Nistico!

Edited August 22, 2018 by Jay

[medjuck]

On 8/13/2018 at 8:18 AM, JSngry said:

Fortunately, I did most of my listening to them in the days when the hifistereosystem had a mono switch.

To this day, "Kitty" is one of my alltimefavorite Duke cuts. Seriously.

What! You prefer "Kitty" to "Cowboy Rhumba"? 

[JSngry]

Truthfully, the more I listen to "Kitty", the more I prefer it to a great number of things. Sonny Greer was never a notable "pocket" drummer, but on this thing..everybody just seems to know this is a disposable dance tune, so they go for what they know in that realm, which is just relax and enjoy it, and not in the way of rape-culture like that Gerald Wiggins record, but just hey, let's hit us all where we live, in the dance reflex that passes all human understanding.

Johnny Hodges' raison d'etre, of course, was all about that, but Sonny Greer, he gets all up in there with it too.

"Kitty" is supposed to be one of those "embarrassing" Duke Ellington records, but...hell no!

[Brad]

Looks like they’re short of the number required to make this set. 

New Woody Herman Release? Thanks very much to everyone who has preordered this set.   While it was a strong response, unfortunately we are short of our goal to produce the set. Therefore we are resending this request to everyone to see if we can put this set in production. We regret any pressure or inconvenience this may cause you in your purchasing decisions, but this is the only way that we can proceed.  We are currently determining whether to a release a new Mosaic set THE COMPLETE WOODY HERMAN DECCA, MARS AND MGM SESSIONS (1943-1954), which will include 131 tracks on 7 CDs With the slowing of sales of CDs, we need to be assured that there is enough demand for this set before incurring the costs and commitment to issue this body of work. The Mosaic business model is becoming harder and harder to sustain and therefore we'll need a strong response for preorders before we are able to proceed. If you place an advance order for this set, your credit card will not be charged until we create and press the set and ship it to you (however PayPal is immediately deducted from your funds). We strongly suggest that you not combine this advance order with any existing sets. We expect to make a decision by the end of August and the set would be available at the end of 2018. Thank you for your support and understanding, Michael & Scott

[Scott Dolan]

That should get Jim’s day off to a rollicking start! 

[Brad]

I wonder what the shortfall is. 

[Larry Kart]

I have no idea what their message to those of us who have pre-ordered means. They want us to pre-order more than one set? The want us to set up the equivalent of a lemonade stand and convince random passers-by that THEY need to order the set? What?

[J.A.W.]

41 minutes ago, Larry Kart said:

I have no idea what their message to those of us who have pre-ordered means. They want us to pre-order more than one set? The want us to set up the equivalent of a lemonade stand and convince random passers-by that THEY need to order the set? What?

I think this message is meant for those who are on the fence, not those who have already pre-ordered the set, even though everyone on their mailing list got the message.

Edited August 26, 2018 by J.A.W.

[Larry Kart]

9 minutes ago, J.A.W. said:

I think this message is meant for those who are on the fence, not those who have already pre-ordered the set, even though everyone on their mailing list got the message.

Ok, I get it. Thanks.

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

That should get Jim’s day off to a rollicking start! 

Better than helping pay the bill for my grandaughter's new puppy having to go in to the emergency clinic yesterday because he contracted some Parvo in the shelter and the vaccine is not fully effective until he completes the whole series of boosters and he's not old enough to have gotten there yet? Hardly!

Apart from that, I said it then, and nothing has changed - this is an amateur move in every way. Especially since they apparently have a "shortfall" but give us no idea of how short they are. If this is to be the model they plan on following going forth, then there should be clear, definite goals up front, and clear, accurate totaling along the way. This is not that, this is just some nebulous cry for help that doesn't give any idea how much help is really needed, nor how much more is needed after the initial response.

I'm sure they're all super nice guys who mean well, but this is not looking like a business that is positioned to really survive over the long haul, this is looking more like a perpetual damsel in distress.

 

[sonnyhill]

2 hours ago, Brad said:

I wonder what the shortfall is. 

Agreed.  If Mosaic is taking a "Kickstarter" approach, it should embrace all aspects.  Including how many "backers" a project attracted so far, the goal, and how much time left until the project needs to meet its goal. 

I am not that much into Woody Herman (and I have spent more than a few bucks at Mosaic this year), but if it is close, I would probably pre-order it just to get it in production. 

[JSngry]

Just now, sonnyhill said:

Agreed.  If Mosaic is taking a "Kickstarter" approach, it should embrace all aspects.  Including how many "backers" a project attracted so far, the goal, and how much time left until the project needs to meet its goal. 

I am not that much into Woody Herman (and I have spent more than a few bucks at Mosaic this year), but if it is close, I would probably pre-order it just to get it in production. 

Yeah, this.

I am into some Woody Herman, but overall the material in this set is not such that I feel compelled to pre-order at this time. I'll be happy to wait, or to do without.

[Bluesnik]

7 minutes ago, JSngry said:

If this is to be the model they plan on following going forth, then there should be clear, definite goals up front, and clear, accurate totaling along the way. This is not that, this is just some nebulous cry for help that doesn't give any idea how much help is really needed, nor how much more is needed after the initial response.

Yeah, I agree with this. I'm also not very interested in the Woody Herman, but I have aquired many sets from them and some of them this year.

[Brad]

I agree with Jim that their approach doesn’t seem like a business that’s going to be able to survive, while recognizing that if they don’t meet their target figure, they’re not going to make the set.

They could also emphasize that a purchase of an older set are dollars that help them make new sets.  Perhaps they need someone to help them navigate this new economic reality. That may not be Michael’s and Scott’s strength.  I’m not trying to be critical, just making an observation (not based on any facts, mind you).  

[JSngry]

Musically, I'm not so sure that a post-Roulette Basie Verve set wouldn't be at least as strong an attraction as this Herman one would. But then again, that's where the Basie band REALLY turned into a "machine",and more than 2-3 tracks in a row numbs me (and not in a good way). But this Woody set is going to have plenty of vocals and other things aimed at the charts, I dunno...

In either case, I don't think the ransom note approach to a set of "non-essential" material is going to convince people like me, the eventual purchaser rather than the immediate, to pull the trigger. If anything, it will have the opposite effect. In this case, it already has.