Dave Holland - Uncharted Territories

[Д.Д.]

The disc is merely OK (admittedly, I did not get to the end yet). A lot of the music sounds like going through the motions. I also didn't like Ches Smith's playing. He plays too much with too few ideas and with this ugly boomy drums sound (IMHO, of course). Does not fit the sound pallet. And his persistent falling back on steady beat is annoying.

Overall, the combination of personalities is not that good a match, although I would probably be interested in hearing a duo of Parker and Taborn.

Not sure about Mr. Smith, but there is definitely better stuff available from Parker, Holland and Taborn.   

Regarding hard leftists in Western Europe, I really wish they shared my experience of staying in a line for one hour to buy one loaf of bread in Moscow in 1980s. I definitely acknowledge the imperfections of the capitalist system, and they can and should be managed and corrected, but socialism (or communism) is really not the way. I see pampered starry eyed students here in Vienna with barely coherent leftist ideas - this is understandable and sort of cute. But when somebody in his 70s is still there, I have less understanding for this.       

[Simon Weil]

There's an awful lot of thinking going on on this record. I listened to the first CD a week ago and have only now listened to the second. When people say there's a lot to digest, it's the amount of thought, for me. My instinct is it's a valuable record. There's a kind of watery theme, so far as I can see, which plays out in some tone-poem-y kind of playing.

[JSngry]

Ok, y'all have Talked me into it, almost literally. I need more exposure to Evan Parker anyway.

[Steve Reynolds]

12 hours ago, JSngry said:

Ok, y'all have Talked me into it, almost literally. I need more exposure to Evan Parker anyway.

I hope you choose the more impressive side of Evan Parker and order “The Two Seasons” and/or “At The Vortex” as well. Both are on Emanem Records. I think the former 2 CD set is only $16.95 plus shipping @ Squidco.

If you are looking for more recent strong Evan Parker, the recent “Music for David Mossman” on a Intakt is pretty great as well. 

Fwiw, I’ve got Uncharted Territories in the CD player for additional listening time for this week. I’ve also got another listen to the above new Intakt release as my first impressions of that might even be better than “pretty great”. 

[mjazzg]

11 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

the more impressive side

or different side, responding to a different improvisatory context? 

the 'Mossman' album is a cracker and fitting recognition of a very nice man I got to know when he ran the original Vortex - I worked in the local library service and he used to drop off the flyers each month for distribution. We'd have a chat and he'd sometimes let me in for free.

Edited August 20, 2018 by mjazzg

[Steve Reynolds]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

or different side, responding to a different improvisatory context? 

the 'Mossman' album is a cracker and fitting recognition of a very nice man I got to know when he ran the original Vortex - I worked in the local library service and he used to drop off the flyers each month for distribution. We'd have a chat and he'd sometimes let me in for free.

For sure “different” but a guy like Jim, he needs to hear the impressive truly phenomenal side of Evan Parker. Prime recordings of those two trios document sets of musuc when things got aligned just right. Portions of the “Summer” sets (disc 2 of The Two Seasons) feature just about the strongest tenor playing by Parker or anyone else I’ve ever heard. The first 38 minute track from At The Vortex (most of all of the first set from that night in 1996) has the Parker-Guy-Lytton trio exploding with extreme intensity and virtuosity simultaneously. They keep peaking and subsiding yet drive the peaks higher all he way to the end. The second 40 minute piece (with Evan starting on soprano) is almost better.

For going on 15 to 20 years I’ve considered both of these recordings to be at the absolute top of my list for sax-bass-drum improvisation. Must hear recordings fir anyone slightly interested in Evan Parker.

[mjazzg]

7 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

The first 38 minute track from At The Vortex (most of all of the first set from that night in 1996) has the Parker-Guy-Lytton trio exploding with extreme intensity and virtuosity simultaneously

I was there

[Steve Reynolds]

36 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I was there

That’s must have been a great experience. Certainly an amazing show to attend. Do you know much of each set might have been left off the disc or does the 78+ minutes cover the whole 2 sets?

[mjazzg]

4 minutes ago, Steve Reynolds said:

That’s must have been a great experience. Certainly an amazing show to attend. Do you know much of each set might have been left off the disc or does the 78+ minutes cover the whole 2 sets?

It was 20+ years ago so I don't remember that much detail, I'm afraid. But the timings feel about right for a Vortex evening. Just looked at the Discogs entry and it says " All of the music performed that evening is included unedited.", a quote from the sleevenote perhaps?

I've never bought the recording for some reason

[clifford_thornton]

I really like that ParkerGuyLytton session with Wheeler that has been floating around the internet. Beautiful music. Saw the trio once, as well as with Lovens + Schlippenbach (2X3=5). Good times.

[Steve Reynolds]

To my ears & taste the other Evan Parker band that is a must listen is Foxes Fox which is Evan (almost always on tenor with this ensemble), Steve Beresford on piano, John Edwards on double bass & Louis Moholo-Moholo on drums.

all the recordings are great but the live one at The Vortex is the strongest 

[mjazzg]

Kenny W guests on that too.

Another one I attended

[uli]

was listening to Filu e ferru this morning (Parker Evans Edwards Hawkins Drake) and reminded that I was a bit astonished to read how much Trane people hear For me he is much more in a Rollins continuum on tenor

np

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by uli

[Steve Reynolds]

12 minutes ago, uli said:

was listening to Filu e ferru this morning (Parker Evans Edwards Hawkins Drake) and reminded that I was a bit astonished to read how much Trane people hear For me he is much more in a Rollins continuum on tenor

np

 

Another truly great recording/great band/great performance.

Was blessed that Hamid sent this to me as a gift.

Band is:

Evan on tenor saxophone, Peter Evans on trumpet, Alexander Hawkins on piano, John Edwards on double bass & Hamid Drake on drums.

Like Uli I hear little Coltrane influence any longer - maybe the Rollins approach/influence is more apparent as it was with another great tenor, David S Ware although Parker & Ware Do not sound at all alike in approach or sound. 

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said:

For sure “different” but a guy like Jim, he needs to hear the impressive truly phenomenal side of Evan Parker.

No, not really. I need to hear all sides of him. It's not like I don't know his playing at, I just need to hear more of it, and in all contexts. I have no doubts, I've just been lazy and/or busy with other stuff. Certainly not a slight to Parker, more like a failing on my part. Or not. I mean, I can't saturate myself like I did when I was younger, all musics all the times, can't do it physically, mentally logistically, emotionally, just can't do it now like I did it then. Parker was one of the players I slept too much on when I could, so now it's time to remedy that. But it's gonna have to be on a piece-by-piece basis.

"Phenominal" is not something that I need these days. I have a grandchild, so that seat (hell, row of seats, or really, that whole arena) is sold out. "Interesting", "original", "compelling", and "substantial", those will do just fine.

[Steve Reynolds]

17 minutes ago, JSngry said:

No, not really. I need to hear all sides of him. It's not like I don't know his playing at, I just need to hear more of it, and in all contexts. I have no doubts, I've just been lazy and/or busy with other stuff. Certainly not a slight to Parker, more like a failing on my part. Or not. I mean, I can't saturate myself like I did when I was younger, all musics all the times, can't do it physically, mentally logistically, emotionally, just can't do it now like I did it then. Parker was one of the players I slept too much on when I could, so now it's time to remedy that. But it's gonna have to be on a piece-by-piece basis.

"Phenominal" is not something that I need these days. I have a grandchild, so that seat (hell, row of seats, or really, that whole arena) is sold out. "Interesting", "original", "compelling", and "substantial", those will do just fine.

I don’t have the time & energy I once had either. Maybe a better way to describe the higher enegy Parker bands would be more jazz or free jazz based. This might be why I thought these recordings and/or ensembles might be more toward your liking. Not that you don’t like abstract or ethereal stuff but noting or hearing a connection to other saxophonists is sometimes helpful. I also think despite the wide range of types of instrumental configurations that Parker is involved in, these small groups with drummers with Parker focusing more on tenor (which he plays more the last 10-20 years than he did in past as compared to the soprano), are the core of his creative and improvisatory genius.

[Alexander Hawkins]

3 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said:

To my ears & taste the other Evan Parker band that is a must listen is Foxes Fox which is Evan (almost always on tenor with this ensemble), Steve Beresford on piano, John Edwards on double bass & Louis Moholo-Moholo on drums.

all the recordings are great but the live one at The Vortex is the strongest 

The gig where I actually met Louis for the first time was when Evan asked me to sub for Steve in this band - something for which I'll be forever grateful.

 

3 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said:

Another truly great recording/great band/great performance.

Was blessed that Hamid sent this to me as a gift.

Band is:

Evan on tenor saxophone, Peter Evans on trumpet, Alexander Hawkins on piano, John Edwards on double bass & Hamid Drake on drums.

Like Uli I hear little Coltrane influence any longer - maybe the Rollins approach/influence is more apparent as it was with another great tenor, David S Ware although Parker & Ware Do not sound at all alike in approach or sound. 

The gigs with this band were such a joy...I *think* this recording might somehow have been the first time John and Hamid had played together, unbelievably...

[Steve Reynolds]

Listening to disc 2 from Uncharted Territories over the last couple of days. Unlike extended long form improvised music, these somewhat patchwork selections of the various duet through quartet pieces work better in segments of 20 to 30 minutes or so. Much to take in when one goes from a 3 or 4 minute bass-tenor improvisation to a full quartet piece of 7-8 minutes back to keyboards/bass/vibes, etc.

the liner notes state they selected the 2 discs worth of material from almost 6 hours of the music they recorded over the 2 days in the studio. So about a third or so of what was recorded, I suppose.

regarding Ches Smith, I think he’s great yet his drums here are a bit “heavy” but I think his playing is terrific. Again I think a live concert and/or a live recording of a couple of sets with the full quartet would be much more revealing to what these great musicians are capable of achieving together. Here’s hoping it happens.

as great as Taborn is, methinks a trio tour with Ches, Dave & Evan might drive Holland to really dig in deeper which I’m not sure a single studio date allowed him to do. He plays nicely but maybe just too nice. Here’s hoping that happens.

[clifford_thornton]

This one is fun:

https://www.discogs.com/Evan-Parker-The-Ayes-Have-It/release/1816152

[Steve Reynolds]

42 minutes ago, clifford_thornton said:

This one is fun:

https://www.discogs.com/Evan-Parker-The-Ayes-Have-It/release/1816152

A great one - especially the 1991 quartet session (1 long 36:30 track) with Wolter Wierbos, Paul Rogers & an explosive Mark Sanders on drums. Gets very intense - truly great tenor playing here with an ace bass/drums tandem. Wierbos is amazing until he inexplicably disappears about 2/3rds of the way. Almost like he blew out his lip he was blowing so hard on the trombone. 

[JSngry]

Starting in on this one today, really enjoying it so far.

[JSngry]

going back around on Disc 1. Really enjoying it, it's got both motion and movement!

[JSngry]

Finished Disc 2, found it very much to my liking. At times, Parker called to mind Sam Rivers, not in any real, literal way, just sometimes with his linear burstiness. It's a side of him I'm less familiar with (relatively), and I do like it.

Between him and Taborn, I can hear how for Holland this traces back to both Circle & his work with the Rivers trio. It's not "like" those musics, but it makes sense that he seems to be hearing the echoes and responding accordingly. I'm glad that he is, because for a long time now, I've respected the hell out of him, but from just a bit of distance. Here, it comes straight-on.

Yeah, great record and I will be recommending it to the few friends I have.

[Simon Weil]

The synthetic stuff by Taborn (some of it) is kind of putting me [off] at sea. But I have a sense of the whole being valuable - and it'd have to be part of that.There's some ravishing playing by Parker (IMHO). My Holland echo is back to Conference of the Birds.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Simon Weil
Clarification [off]

[king ubu]

On ‎20‎.‎08‎.‎2018 at 7:10 PM, uli said:

was listening to Filu e ferru this morning (Parker Evans Edwards Hawkins Drake) and reminded that I was a bit astonished to read how much Trane people hear For me he is much more in a Rollins continuum on tenor

Well, in my case it relates to one concert experience, in  2016 I think, when he guested with Decoy (Hawkins on organ, Edwards and Steve Noble) in Italy ... that night, he channelled Coltrane for sure. I remember chatting with Noble about just that.

I heard Parker several times (twice in duo with Guy, once with Guy's New Orchestra, several times with the Schlipp trio with both Lovens and Lytton, Globe Unity in Berlin last year, and the Decoy concert - that's probably it, not quite sure though), and I don't generally feel like that - but I feel like he's mellowed a bit in recent years and he's making even better use of his gorgeous tenor sound in teh course of it, going back to his jazz roots.

@JSngry if you're staring to check out Parker for real, in addition to discs mentioned and other classics (i.e. "At the Vortex", "Saxophone Solos", "Topography of the Lungs", "Filu e Ferru" - all highly recommended), don't miss out on this, a fantastic sounding disc (thanks @Alexander Hawkins for the recommendation ):

 

--

Oh, and the NoBusiness Parker/Guy/Lytton set from the Maya festival is amazing, too! Hate having missed out on this, when it took place 15 or 20 minutes by train from here!