Reissue labels - legit or not

[mjazzg]

Not too sure if this thread will have legs or not but inspired by my purchase of this and the plethora of vinyl reissues hitting the shops. My inclination is to avoid non-authorised reissues but it seems difficult to ascertain the bona fides of so many.  I thought we might share knowledge of so many reissue labels about at the moment.

on Outernational, claiming a master tapes reissue.  Anyone know anything about Outernational?

Other labels I've recently wondered about are Pure Pleasure and Everland Jazz

 

[paul secor]

If you're writing about Pure Pleasure the LP reissue label, supposedly they reissue from master tapes from the original issuing record companies.

[spinlps]

Agree that Pure Pleasure does things right in terms of providing a lineage from their product back to the original tapes / companies. The quality of their product is excellent.

Sams Records is another legit jazz reissue label offering "provenance" for all aspects of the product: audio, jacket, photography, etc...

Fredericksburg Recrods focuses on rare euro-jazz reissues that appears legit and is available online to answer any questions you may have about their releases.

I generally stay away from the gray market reissues (Doxy for example) and prefer to purchase reissues from the audiophile companies like Analogue Productions or directly from Universal or Concord. In the case of the major labels, that may mean they might be mastered from digital but at least (in my naive mind) it provides a legit path for artists / estates to paid accordingly.

[Ted O'Reilly]

I never hear anyone remark on the fact that every time you run a tape over the heads it wears out a bit.   And that tape needs to be run several times to align the playback machine to the tape's references, to set playback levels, etc.

How long do you think it's going to be before those precious Master Tapes are going to sound like crap?  It might actually be best to make a one-time digital clone of that Master Tape, then cut your analogue from that clone.  How many releases of Kind Of Blue "from the original masters" have there been over the years?

Remember, the earliest digital recordings were not done to a hard drive directly, but to tape, and there's physical wear-and-tear on them, too...

Might not the very first physical pressing -- but pressers wear out too -- be the best source in some cases?

[JSngry]

48 minutes ago, Ted O'Reilly said:

I never hear anyone remark on the fact that every time you run a tape over the heads it wears out a bit.   And that tape needs to be run several times to align the playback machine to the tape's references, to set playback levels, etc.

Maybe he got blue in the face about it and gave up, but that was a running theme of so many of Chuck Nessa's comments during the glory days of the reissue boom.

[Ted O'Reilly]

Mr. Nessa and I, both being of an age which welcomed in new formats of vinyl LPs and 45 rpm singles, are correct.  Re-issue problem solved.  

[AllenLowe]

I'll pretty much by anything on any label as long as the sound is OK. I feel (like probably everybody else around here) that I single-handedly supported the jazz industry for 50 years, and so I can relax a little bit now, since it has never really supported me. 

[mjzee]

Not sure if this is off-topic, but I’ve often thought that “the industry” should give listeners like us, who buy so much more than the typical music consumer, a bulk discount.  CDs should cost us no more than $5 a disc.  We’d more than make up for the differential in quantity.

[B. Clugston]

Speaker's Corner is another legit one and they do a good job. 4 Men With Beards is legit, but only sound as good as the DAT they're given.

[spinlps]

On 8/8/2018 at 5:02 PM, Ted O'Reilly said:

Might not the very first physical pressing -- but pressers wear out too -- be the best source in some cases?

Absolutely... and I try to get the cleanest, earliest pressing I can afford. Unfortunately, that last bit can be problematic with the rarer and desirable titles on my want list!

[Jay]

Pure Pleasure is totally legit and uses original sources.

I too would like to know about Everland.  I emailed them but never heard back.  They have some nice new reissues I'd like to pick up.

[clifford_thornton]

Also, licensed reissues (i.e., from the label or catalog owner) don't necessarily mean that artists are getting paid.

[mjazzg]

Yes, that's often my concern. 

Pure Pleasure seem to be mining Strata East recently. My understanding is that the ownership of those recordings are with the artists. Does this mean that the label's negotiating with each one or their estates? Good on them if they are but allow me some skepticism 

Also, anyone know about Superior Viaduct? Just reissued Alice Coltrane's 'Lord Of Lords' and previously 'Cosmic Music'

[Pim]

Anyone Some thoughts on the Strata East reissues? 

I have recently bought on Pure pleasure records:

- Cecil Payne’s Zodiac

- Charles Tollivers Music Inc

On Everland: 

- Charlie Rouses Two is One

Both of these labels seem legit and I must say they have done a wonderful job. Sound is very good and it is reissued as a Strata East, with original artwork.

But most of all: for me it is an affordable way to finally get these records.

[jazzcorner]

On 10.8.2018 at 2:09 AM, B. Clugston said:

Speaker's Corner is another legit one and they do a good job. 4 Men With Beards is legit, but only sound as good as the DAT they're given.

I doubt that very much.  Same is with the "DOXY" vinylyls of russian origin. Havent seen a copyright or a license printed on any of their reissues. They dont have even an own logo (SCR)  printed on the disc labels but only the original labels. Thats quite irritating. The pressings are fine but I dont think they do pay a cent for using the content.  Its obviouslyx public domain material acc the european copyrights. Heaven knows where their source for the reissued material is. Have tried to start a thread at Discogs to clear the matter. IMO the "iron is too hot"  so noone dit bite.

[JSngry]

4 minutes ago, jazzcorner said:

Same is with the "DOXY" vinylyls of russian origin.

Ah, THAT'S where that all that crap that is cluttering up the Half Price bins is coming from!

[David Ayers]

On 09/08/2018 at 9:15 PM, AllenLowe said:

I'll pretty much by anything on any label as long as the sound is OK. I feel (like probably everybody else around here) that I single-handedly supported the jazz industry for 50 years, and so I can relax a little bit now, since it has never really supported me. 

I’m with Grumpy. 

[Misterioso]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:49 PM, mjazzg said:

on Outernational, claiming a master tapes reissue.  Anyone know anything about Outernational?

Other labels I've recently wondered about are Pure Pleasure and Everland Jazz

Both Outernational Sounds and Pure Pleasure Records have been reissuing selected Nimbus West Records albums. I have Adele Sebastian's Desert Fairy Princess from both labels. The photo below is taken from the back cover of the Outernational Sounds (a brand of Presch Media GmbH) reissue:

Based on this information, it seems to be legit. However, the production quality (cover art) of the Pure Pleasure Records reissue is superior. From memory, the sound quality is dramatically superior but I am happy to check again tonight. I bought the Outernational reissue before the Pure Pleasure became available. Very happy to see more Nimbus West reissues on Pure Pleasure.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Misterioso
typo

[mjazzg]

Since my initial post, I've had a very interesting chat with the guy behind Outernational in which he told me the lengths to which he'd gone to collaborate with Tom Albach about the reissue of Jesse Sharps reissue. I imagine his subsequent reissues have followed on in the same vein.

[mjazzg]

9 hours ago, Misterioso said:

Both Outernational Sounds and Pure Pleasure Records have been reissuing selected Nimbus West Records albums. I have Adele Sebastian's Desert Fairy Princess from both labels. The photo below is taken from the back cover of the Outernational Sounds (a brand of Presch Media GmbH) 

I can't find any reference to an Outernational Sounds reissue of the Adele Sebastian, either on Discogs or their own site. Is it recent?

[Misterioso]

2 hours ago, mjazzg said:

I can't find any reference to an Outernational Sounds reissue of the Adele Sebastian, either on Discogs or their own site. Is it recent?

Yes, I made a mistake. The Adele Sebastian album sits next to the Jesse Sharps album in my record collection Excel sheet. The latter was indeed reissued by Outernational Sounds, while the former was reissued by Presch Media GmbH (PMG) in 2016. Contrary to my earlier post, there is no indication that these companies are related. I just mixed information from two albums in my Excel sheet, which both feature Adele Sebastian. Sorry.

The  photo below shows the PMG release on the left and the Pure Pleasure on the right. I don't have an original at hand to judge which one reflects the colors of the original better.

I just compared the sound quality. It is actually pretty close. If anything, the Pure Pleasure release sounds slightly more transparent. But it could be just my imagination (confirming my prior that the Pure Pleasure release must sound better). Both sound good.

 

[mjazzg]

Aha! Thanks for clarifying ( good to see someone else keeps an excel catalogue)

I ordered the Pure Pleasure this morning prompted by your post, so thank you. I'd been meaning to for ages, enough of streaming it I need to hold it 

[clifford_thornton]

Superior Viaduct is legit but they only sometimes license from the artists themselves; most of the time they work with larger labels and pay up for back catalog licenses (Universal, BMG, etc.) and go from a digital master.

4 Men With Beards was connected to Runt (Abraxas/Get Back) and somewhat grey market.

[B. Clugston]

On 12/4/2019 at 5:49 AM, jazzcorner said:

I doubt that very much.  Same is with the "DOXY" vinylyls of russian origin. Havent seen a copyright or a license printed on any of their reissues. They dont have even an own logo (SCR)  printed on the disc labels but only the original labels. Thats quite irritating. The pressings are fine but I dont think they do pay a cent for using the content.  Its obviouslyx public domain material acc the european copyrights. Heaven knows where their source for the reissued material is. Have tried to start a thread at Discogs to clear the matter. IMO the "iron is too hot"  so noone dit bite.

I have three 4 Men reissues and they all have correct copyright and licensing info. They are an American company. Doxy is an Italian-based public domain loophole outfit. No comparison.

[jazzcorner]

On 10.12.2019 at 2:48 AM, B. Clugston said:

I have three 4 Men reissues and they all have correct copyright and licensing info. They are an American company. Doxy is an Italian-based public domain loophole outfit. No comparison.

Speakers Corner Records is a german company and not US!!!

 

Speakers Corner HiFi GmbH
Eichkoppel 15A
24214 Gettorf
Germany

 

Dont see a license entry for their records on the Items. They dont have a label/logo on their r4eissue discs.

IMO this is a pure reissue company for public domain material as is Doxy (= sublabel of a russian organisation).

They  all make immense money and do not draw from original  mastertapes thats for sure.

 

More Info here

https://www.discogs.com/label/75430-Speakers-Corner-Records

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by jazzcorner