sidewinder Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 On 1/4/2023 at 6:42 PM, Stompin at the Savoy said: This just arrived today. I ordered it directly from the Village Vanguard website. I like this band and have the Mosaic set and a few of their other early recordings. The book is huge and has a surprising amount of content. Wow! Some shots of it here. That one is in my pile - bought a few years ago and still waiting to read it ! If you search old threads I think there is also mention of an optional PDF of supplementary material, which can be separately purchased from the authors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 "Saxophone Colossus" -- so far it's rather plodding and tedious IMO. Only bright spot of novel information for me was that Shelly Manne came up with his loping, clip-clop accompaniment on "I'm an Old Cowhand" from "Way out West" in part because he'd been living on a horse ranch in the San Fernando Valley. Also that Sonny was subjected to criticism back in NY by some who found William J. Claxton's "Western" album cover photo corny/demeaning. This led to a longtime estrangement between Rollins and Claxton, which eventually was repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 Larry, your 1970 Downbeat review of Ayler's Music is the Healing Force of the Universe was quoted in Richard Koloda's Holy Ghost. Strange (almost totally based on reviews, interviews, etc. by others) and rather disappointing book I just finished reading. John Litweiler was quoted a whole bunch of times; Clifford Allen at least once that I noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 Geez -- I don't remember that review. I hope it was positive. John L. is an oracle, still going strong. Interesting that there were four of us back then in Chicago, all friends, almost always in agreement -- me, John, Terry Martin, and Chuck Nessa. Someone dubbed us "the Jazz Mafia." I remember the great good fortune we all no doubt felt that we were there in Hyde Park to respond to the first stirrings of the AEC and the AACM. Terry was recording the nascent AEC in the basement of his apartment building (later issued by Chuck on Nessa), Chuck likewise in the studio for Delmark, Terry and I were writing liner notes, and we all retain memories of live performances that didn't get recorded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Larry Kart said: "Saxophone Colossus" -- so far it's rather plodding and tedious IMO. Only bright spot of novel information for me was that Shelly Manne came up with his loping, clip-clop accompaniment on "I'm an Old Cowhand" from "Way out West" in part because he'd been living on a horse ranch in the San Fernando Valley. Also that Sonny was subjected to criticism back in NY by some who found William J. Claxton's "Western" album cover photo corny/demeaning. This led to a longtime estrangement between Rollins and Claxton, which eventually was repaired. I llike the book better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Larry Kart said: Geez -- I don't remember that review. I hope it was positive. John L. is an oracle, still going strong. Interesting that there were four of us back then in Chicago, all friends, almost always in agreement -- me, John, Terry Martin, and Chuck Nessa. Someone dubbed us "the Jazz Mafia." I remember the great good fortune we all no doubt felt that we were there in Hyde Park to respond to the first stirrings of the AEC and the AACM. Terry was recording the nascent AEC in the basement of his apartment building (later issued by Chuck on Nessa), Chuck likewise in the studio for Delmark, Terry and I were writing liner notes, and we all retain memories of live performances that didn't get recorded. The review [Ayler's Music is the Healing Force of the Universe in DownBeat] was not so positive, 1.5 stars. Respectful of Ayler in general (praised earlier LPs) but down on that particular release. I can't copy/paste from the Kindle edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 Thanks for the info on the Ayler review. I'll have to look up that album to try to refresh my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 What an idiot I must have been. Listening to tracks from the album, it sounds like prime Ayler to me. Maybe I was reacting to the vocals by Mary Maria, and even then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 13 hours ago, Larry Kart said: Only bright spot of novel information for me was that Shelly Manne came up with his loping, clip-clop accompaniment on "I'm an Old Cowhand" from "Way out West" in part because he'd been living on a horse ranch in the San Fernando Valley. Also that Sonny was subjected to criticism back in NY by some who found William J. Claxton's "Western" album cover photo corny/demeaning. This led to a longtime estrangement between Rollins and Claxton, which eventually was repaired. I had a friend (has died) who was fond about that album back then in the 70´s and taped it for me, but I must admit it never really touched me like the Prestige and BN albums from the same period (Work, Tenor Madness, Saxophone Colossus, live at Village Vanguard and all of them). And the clip-clop accomaniment never was my thing. Nor was the album cover which just doesn´t fit to Rollins. So I understand you very well. It seems that that kind of music never was my thing. I think I didn´t spin Grant Green´s BN album with Western/Country themes more then 2 times, it´s just not my kind of music..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Gheorghe said: I had a friend (has died) who was fond about that album back then in the 70´s and taped it for me, but I must admit it never really touched me like the Prestige and BN albums from the same period (Work, Tenor Madness, Saxophone Colossus, live at Village Vanguard and all of them). And the clip-clop accomaniment never was my thing. Nor was the album cover which just doesn´t fit to Rollins. So I understand you very well. It seems that that kind of music never was my thing. I think I didn´t spin Grant Green´s BN album with Western/Country themes more then 2 times, it´s just not my kind of music..... FWIW, Way Out West and Goin' West are two of my very favorite things, both utterly masterful reworkings of unlikely material to suit their own purposes. They both work on many levels from simply sounds good to subtly shaded signifiers working as commentary on a whole range of concepts and culture. I honestly don't trust the opinions on American culture of any sort from those who don't get them. And, again FWIW, I heard Sonny play Hank Williams' "You Win Again" live more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 It's a matter of taste (with which there's no arguing), but I like Way Out West a lot. And I dig the cover art as well, funny and somewhat ironic IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 Don't let the stars get in your eyes. Don't let the moon break your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 "Saxophone Colossus" is running out of gas for me as I reach page 563. How many time do I need to be told that musician X's whole life was changed after playing with Sonny? Also I was hoping to find something about Sonny's 1962 Dragon label recording, recorded live at Nalen for Stockhom Radio, with Grimes and LaRoca, IMO one of his greatest. But nada. Grab that one if you can. Also, I LOVE "Way Out West" and find the cover photo ironically amusing in a very Rollins way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, Larry Kart said: "Saxophone Colossus" is running out of gas for me as I reach page 563. How many time do I need to be told that musician X's whole life was changed after playing with Sonny? Also I was hoping to find something about Sonny's 1962 Dragon label recording, recorded live at Nalen for Stockhom Radio, with Grimes and LaRoca, IMO one of his greatest. But nada. Grab that one if you can. Also, I LOVE "Way Out West" and find the cover photo ironically amusing in a very Rollins way. Errata -- the Nalen material is part of the well-documented March 1959 tour (and not from 1962). The only live concert piece I've heard is "St. Thomas" from March 2. The rest of the Dragon LP that I have that includes that live "St. Thomas" is from a radio broadcast on March 4 in Stockholm. The three video tracks from the Swedish TV show that circulate were apparently also done on March 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 39 minutes ago, Mark Stryker said: Errata -- the Nalen material is part of the well-documented March 1959 tour (and not from 1962). The only live concert piece I've heard is "St. Thomas" from March 2. The rest of the Dragon LP that I have that includes that live "St. Thomas" is from a radio broadcast on March 4 in Stockholm. The three video tracks from the Swedish TV show that circulate were apparently also done on March 4. Sorry for the error. Great playing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, Larry Kart said: Sorry for the error. Great playing though. Yes, fantastic playing. I have always hoped that more than St. Thomas would surface from the live concert. That's an electrifying performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 The Rollins bio inspired me to finally get around to reading this one (in addition to revisiting the Hawkins Mosaic): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 This is on the way from eBay. I paid $10.70 after tax and shipping...for a copy signed by Milt Hinton, Jay McShann, Buddy Tate and Rufus Reid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 5, 2023 Report Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 1/20/2023 at 12:39 PM, Larry Kart said: "Saxophone Colossus" is running out of gas for me as I reach page 563. How many time do I need to be told that musician X's whole life was changed after playing with Sonny? Also I was hoping to find something about Sonny's 1962 Dragon label recording, recorded live at Nalen for Stockhom Radio, with Grimes and LaRoca, IMO one of his greatest. But nada. Grab that one if you can. Also, I LOVE "Way Out West" and find the cover photo ironically amusing in a very Rollins way. I’m 100 pages into it and enjoying it so far. The Dragon record of his 1959 performance in Stockholm is one to grab too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Litweiler Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Brad said: I’m 100 pages into it and enjoying it so far. The Dragon record of his 1959 performance in Stockholm is one to grab too. 9 hours ago, Brad said: I’m 100 pages into it and enjoying it so far. The Dragon record of his 1959 performance in Stockholm is one to grab too. I'm looking forward to a paperback edition of Saxophone Colossus. A few years ago I was blown away by an almost-finished, unpublished early chapter. The stories of how Sonny's father created a national scandal by dancing with a white human female and of teenaged Sonny would, daily after school, go down from Harlem to Thelonious Monk's midtown home to hear and IIRC play music - these stories were fascinating and new to me. On the basis of that chapter this one looks like it could be a pretty terrific piece of research. Incidentally, Levy was a student of George Lewis at Columbia U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 Levy talks about Ike Day who is considered one of the greatest drummers of all time and who I had never heard of. @Larry Kartwhat do you know about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 30 minutes ago, Brad said: Levy talks about Ike Day who is considered one of the greatest drummers of all time and who I had never heard of. @Larry Kartwhat do you know about him? Not Larry Kart but ... Ike Day was mentioned in this context here before ... (by Ghost of Miles): He is given some coverage on the Red Saunders Research Foundation website, i.e. in the sections on the Aristocrat label and on Tom Archia. He also worked with Gene Ammons a.o., and according to online sources other name jazzmen such as Buddy Rich and Eddie Harris also praised him without reservations. The first time I myself came across his name was on the "Chicago Boss Tenors" LP on Chess (CHV 414) around 1980. The photo on the back cover showing Max Roach sitting in front of the stage watching Ike Day do his job was credentials enough to make his name stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 Wilbur Campbell spoke of Day with awe. IIRC, Day used a very minimal kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 6, 2023 Report Share Posted February 6, 2023 Papa Joe Jones called him one of the greatest drummers who ever lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Dryden Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 1/15/2023 at 3:27 PM, HutchFan said: This book just arrived in the mail: Ruminations and Reflections: The Musical Journey of Dave Liebman and Richie Beirach (Cymbal Press, 2022) Two of my musical heroes. I am in the process of reading this book for a review. I've enjoyed it immensely! On 2/5/2023 at 1:05 PM, Justin V said: This is on the way from eBay. I paid $10.70 after tax and shipping...for a copy signed by Milt Hinton, Jay McShann, Buddy Tate and Rufus Reid. I got a review copy when it came out and Milt Hinton signed mine during a Jazz Party. $10.70 is a huge bargain, as I think it is long out of print and listed for around $30 to $40 when it was published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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