Which jazz book are you reading right now?

[Ken Dryden]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:36 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

Quite right.
I happen to be a professional translator (with close to 40 years of professional experience "on my back" - mostly in many areas of engineering and economics but also a fair number of non-fiction books), and honestly - regardless of how interesting the subject matter might be to me personally,  I would not have gone out of my way in any attempts to acquire translation assignments for music books (particularly jazz) into German. If it is to be really, really well done, it is a highly demanding and time-consuming task.
Though the translation standards for jazz books have improved through the decades on the German market. Some time ago I chanced upon an original copy of the German translation of Sidney Finkelstein's (at the time) influential "Jazz - A People's Music". The German version clearly was well-intentioned but awkward and corny in more ways than one. Though probably not bad, objectively speaking. I have read a few German translations (by leading publishers) from the same (50s) period of novels by Sinclair Lewis - ouch ....

Talking about books recently discussed here, the German version of "Hear Me Talkin' To Ya" is relatively acceptable, given the times it was published (and the then prevailing standards in the profession). But the colloquial nature of the original texts may have helped here.

I am also one of those who bought Ross Russell's "Bird Lives" back in the 70s, and - fiction or not - it did give me insights, including those parts that "may well have happened that way".  (And without wanting to go into greater detail, reports of other documented backstage  and off-stage incidents somewhat corroborate the likelihood of some of Russell's fictionalizations) One day in the later 80s I received a German copy of this book (first published in German by Hannibal in 1985) by a well-meaning relative. It WAS readable but IIRC I put it away before I got to the end because compared to the orignal it just was uneven. I still have the book in a corner but have not looked at it in decades. I might pick it up one day if I have a LOT of time to do a private critical comparison with the original. (Yes, "professional deformation", I know ... )

Speaking of Hannibal publishers (of Vienna), for a time in the 90s a lot of their (translated) musician biographies were commonplace at Zweitausendeins. I picked up several of them (Dexter Gordon, Woody Herman, Kenny Clarke a.o. as well as Sally Placksin's Women in Jazz), but again was underwhelmed. In many places you got a distinct feeling the translator was grappling for words, and in some cases missed a finer point that clearly showed that he or she was not sufficiently familiar with the artists or that style of music. Which did not bode well for any trust by the (knowledgeable) reader in the German text.  By comparison (again IIRC), the Sally Placksin book had the best translation.

Another German one I recently got (my wife was unaware I - of course - already owned the U.S. printing) was the German translation of "Sam Phillips" by Peter Guralnick. This recent publication probably reflects the typical state of the art in the profession and should read well enough to most readers. I am not sure I would have been able to do it vastly better overall (particularly because translators usually have to work against insanely sick publisher's deadlines). Yet the German version has certain quirks that make it sound corny ever so often too, and in some cases there are goofs that - again - make you realize the translator failed to double-check the way he rendered the facts into German (in short, he misunderstood ...). 

So ... overall I still prefer reading any music books in the orignal language. Be it English or French or any other language I at least know sufficiently well to cope with (Spanish, Swedish).

Yet this begs another question: Are English translations always that much better?
One jazz book I have been (re-)reading in recent times was/is "Cubano Be Cubano Bop - One hundred Years of jazz in Cuba" by Leonard Acosta. I had started on it after I had bought it in 2007 but put it away as I found the going a bit rough with all that "name calling". But what bothers me in the first place now is the English translation which - personally speaking - grates me more and more (I am about one third through the book now). It just is so convoluted, awkward, stiff and clumsy. Strictly linguistically, what the translator wrote certainly is correct for the most part. But his wording and style just are so stiff, old-fashioned and stilted. My Spanish is relatively rusted up (but not enough to keep me from picking up Jordi Pujol's "Jazz en Barcelona" from time to time) but the more I continue with the Acosta book the more I feel this translator had fallen into the trap of writing Spanish with English words. Very often you literally sense the wording of the Spanish text through his translation. Which is not the way to tackle such a subject in the first place.  Because both languages in their structure and typical ways of expessing things fluently really work differently. In short, at least in part a disservice to the subject of the book and a missed opportunity ...

Having got all this off my chest , I am now beginning to wonder what those who have read the well-circulated English editions of Joachim E. Berendt's "Jazz Book", for example, have to say about THAT English edition ...

I once ran across an All Music review that I had written which had evidently been translated into Portuguese and then back to English, although the English translation did not resemble  my original contribution. It was funny, in a way.

[medjuck]

A collection of quotations from Monk alphabetically arranged by subject.  It's in both French and English on facing pages. There's an introduction  that I found difficult to understand in either language.

The source of the quotes are cited and the authors admit that some are apocryphal but they're all interesting. 

Edited June 23 by medjuck

[Chuck Nessa]

THIS

[jazzcorner]

 

Volume 2 is just availabe

[EKE BBB]

Revisiting

[Big Beat Steve]

On 10/30/2024 at 6:02 PM, jazzcorner said:

 

Volume 2 is just availabe

That's these, then?

https://www.amazon.com/JAZZ-WEST-COAST-READER-1/dp/B0DHH5XCBH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32VZIFEF5FCFZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4tZq_hyHXMwuhd7k_QBtwX0nNP2yIIUqx5pWbdfOyhvVauPjAMofHOqrEUf3Q3N1.Pp33glJKKFeeUb4eVHf9z5B5P8dm2Ilrcpn4agxFNlg&dib_tag=se&keywords=jazz+west+coast+a+reader+vol.+1&qid=1730457553&sprefix=jazz+west+coast+a+reader+vol.+1%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.de/Jazz-West-Coast-Reader-2/dp/B0DL5KLL88/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=34OY611GEG4LX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sOQu3lttK2O3sJHOpUMyQDVYCMmIoAcgQ9rW6O-sMLF3-stERqELi5c9u50hTN-70b1uBL_tqof6pNvMkIt8E6dXSOrc2lTXY8rVG-YWIum2B3L1D3RtNLt6VSHjK85KJMCoyqtP0PgjaSGg8NgkRARuCaOG_Hk_OvrKCSe551JtXVNBUyPvhKlON5wTbsikMBLfkgCEwc5cF15XMa8rNFhbslkm6fwkBXD3Cy0XqIk.q0-cU5wYtpauLXk-DWH3LuIAjuxPDJqqaPWIImwwmwY&dib_tag=se&keywords=Jazz+West+Coast+A+Reader&qid=1730456930&sprefix=jazz+west+coast+a+reader%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-2

So what are your impressions of Vol. 1? A "review" would be appreciated very much.

I'm very tempted. To keep the JWC history books by Gioia, Gordon and Tercinet company on my bookshelf. But I wonder in which way these complement and expand the above books. Or do their contents tend towards the anecdotical approach of "The Melody Lingers On" by Jules and Jo Brooks Fox (which isn't bad but I find it a bit fuzzy and unfocused within the overall framework of WCJ).

So any feedback on the above two books should be interesting.

 

Edited November 1 by Big Beat Steve

[Big Beat Steve]

Further to my above post and question(s), I just checked the web and found this:

https://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2024/09/jazz-west-coast-reader-volume-1.html

This does give me a somewhat better initial impression of the contents (Vol. 2 is in the sidebar to the right). Apparently an anthology of (for the most part) previously published stories/features on WCJ. Admittedly this mitigates my excitement a bit, though I'll very likely spring for them anyway. Just to have all that material in one place. Looks like the "newness" factor of interest largely depends on how easily or widely "accessible" the original sources for the contents of each chapter are, as this would indicate what REALLY would be new to "advanced readers".

I do own "Modern Jazz" by Alun Morgan and Raymond Horricks (a 1956 book), so we'll have to wait and see to what extent the respective chapters are strict copyings (without updates, etc.).
And just for correctness (and fairness) sake, the credits to Chapter 37 of Vol. 1 ("JazzLife") visibly are all wrong. This chapter apparently comes from the "Jazz Life" book first published in Germany (and German) in the early 60s. But no way the author was William Claxton! Not by the longest of long shots. He contributed the photographs to that book. A major accomplishment, but the entire text was by Joachim Ernst Berendt, for decades the #1 "grey eminence of German jazz journalism". Unfairly relegated to the small print in the fairly recent updated trilingual "reissue" by Taschen. So this chapter is a (well-done) translation of the original text written by Berendt. Something that ought to have been clear and known to the author/compiler/collator of this book.
Honor to whom honr is due, therefore ...

Opinions and impressions of the contents in their entirety are welcome anyway ...

Edited November 1 by Big Beat Steve

[Jim Duckworth]

 

[jazzcorner]

21 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Further to my above post and question(s), I just checked the web and found this:

https://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2024/09/jazz-west-coast-reader-volume-1.html

This does give me a somewhat better initial impression of the contents (Vol. 2 is in the sidebar to the right). Apparently an anthology of (for the most part) previously published stories/features on WCJ. Admittedly this mitigates my excitement a bit, though I'll very likely spring for them anyway. Just to have all that material in one place. Looks like the "newness" factor of interest largely depends on how easily or widely "accessible" the original sources for the contents of each chapter are, as this would indicate what REALLY would be new to "advanced readers".

I do own "Modern Jazz" by Alun Morgan and Raymond Horricks (a 1956 book), so we'll have to wait and see to what extent the respective chapters are strict copyings (without updates, etc.).
And just for correctness (and fairness) sake, the credits to Chapter 37 of Vol. 1 ("JazzLife") visibly are all wrong. This chapter apparently comes from the "Jazz Life" book first published in Germany (and German) in the early 60s. But no way the author was William Claxton! Not by the longest of long shots. He contributed the photographs to that book. A major accomplishment, but the entire text was by Joachim Ernst Berendt, for decades the #1 "grey eminence of German jazz journalism". Unfairly relegated to the small print in the fairly recent updated trilingual "reissue" by Taschen. So this chapter is a (well-done) translation of the original text written by Berendt. Something that ought to have been clear and known to the author/compiler/collator of this book.
Honor to whom honr is due, therefore ...

Opinions and impressions of the contents in their entirety are welcome anyway ...

Thanks for your detailed Information

The West Coast Vol 1 by Cerra just arrived a few days earlier. Have only looked up the content for some of the quoted artists and dont have a general view over the book. So sorry  at the moment I cannot makeup a review of the content what will take also time beside listening which comes first.

I plan to get Vol. 2 too. Was some time ago in touch with Mr. Cerra when helping out articles from my early Down Beats

Have also the Gioia book on the shelf to look up certain questions re West Coast which arise.

The big table book by Berendt (long time jazz editor as radio Baden-Baden) is also here. Best are the fotos in that huge book.

Claxtons work is also here.

So to sum it up these books are interesting for occasional Information for me but main time is used for music.

 

[Big Beat Steve]

12 hours ago, Jim Duckworth said:

 

Worth a separate thread (similair to "In with The In Crowd"). I read the book very recently and sincerely applaud (and agree with) the intentions and purpose of that book to put the record of post-WWII jazz straight in some respects. But I have somewhat mixed feelings about how this is put into practice in this book - and about the factual accuracy of part of its contents too. (A long story ...)
I am now also re-reading "Soul Jazz" by Bob Porter who essentially argues along the same lines. I need to let this sink a bit first while reading "Jazz With A Feeling" again (I guess the first time around I was distracted a bit by the errors I noticed and may have missed some finer points of the author's reasoning).

2 hours ago, jazzcorner said:

Thanks for your detailed Information

The West Coast Vol 1 by Cerra just arrived a few days earlier. Have only looked up the content for some of the quoted artists and dont have a general view over the book. So sorry  at the moment I cannot makeup a review of the content what will take also time beside listening which comes first.

I plan to get Vol. 2 too. Was some time ago in touch with Mr. Cerra when helping out articles from my early Down Beats

Have also the Gioia book on the shelf to look up certain questions re West Coast which arise.

The big table book by Berendt (long time jazz editor as radio Baden-Baden) is also here. Best are the fotos in that huge book.

Claxtons work is also here.

So to sum it up these books are interesting for occasional Information for me but main time is used for music.

 

Thanks for your reply. I'd be interested anyway to read your opinions of Vol. 1 as soon as you have a more thorough impression of its contents. (Even though I may have ordered the books in the meantime anyway ... )

Edited November 2 by Big Beat Steve

[jazzcorner]

30 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Re Steve Cerra - West Coast vol 1

Thanks for your reply. I'd be interested anyway to read your opinions of Vol. 1 as soon as you have a more thorough impression of its contents. (Even though I may have ordered the books in the meantime anyway ... )

FYI I enclose 2 scans of the content.

The book is  a collection of various publications quoted from other works as well as short articles by Cerra himself on his own webside.

So you have the possibility to select for reading and Information  if an artist or other topic related to jazz is your actual Interest. That seems very handy to me for things which are  interesting at the moment or when listening to a certain artist

https://up.picr.de/48869263zq.jpg

https://up.picr.de/48869264fh.jpg

Hope you can open them

W.B.

 

 

 

Edited November 2 by jazzcorner
text

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes, thanks - they opened fine. And I agree that this way of consulting specific chapters for specific purposes (to accompany listening, for example) may well come in handy.

From the Amazon listings I did notice that the book is a collection of previously published articles. Which left me wondering about how much I might already have on my bookshelves or to what extent Cerra did update/correct/comment on those period articles that may sometimes be outdated or in fact incorrect (on the basis of more recent research). But I guess everyone will have to find out about this for himself on reading the book.

[Teasing the Korean]

A Damon Runyon anthology.

[T.D.]

Good stuff. I used to have a Damon Runyon anthology and read it at least a couple of times. Eventually got donated during a downsizing.

Which reminds me: I also like Ring Lardner, also had an anthology, but have never read his novel The Real Dope: A Satirical Journey Through the Jazz Age. 

Meanwhile I recently finished

There's some good content, and overall worth reading for fans, but on the other side of the ledger: Slender volume w/o a lot of text, plus quite a bit of technical material that might go over the heads of non-saxophonists.

[JSngry]

The technical material literally changed how I thought about my airflow across registers, but yeah, that won't be relevant to a lot of people.

I wish there had been more chronology for the general comments.

Kinda like a Milestone record, some really good stuff, but it leaves you wanting more.

[T.D.]

I was disappointed that six boxes of notebook material didn't yield a meatier book.

This may violate board rules, but I found some of Sonny's musings on the environment and politics remarkably prescient.

[JSngry]

Have you read Notes and Tones? 

He has a lot to say there as well.

[T.D.]

Thanks. That book's been mentioned quite a bit on the board, I made a "mental note" to read it but never followed up.

[JSngry]

It was not immediately published in the US, iirc.

[T.D.]

Wow, publisher of the "current" paperback edition is Da Capo (Canada). ISTR that I saw the book was unavailable via interlibrary loan (which is generally a reliable source), and then forgot about it.

I'm going the Kindle route. Thanks for the tip.

[Added] Now reading Notes and Tones. Jumping between chapters (interviews) of names that appeal to me. Excellent. Very fast read because pages have big margins and small printed area.

Edited November 3 by T.D.

[Niko]

On 11/2/2024 at 8:00 PM, JSngry said:

It was not immediately published in the US, iirc.

the copy in the public library in Cologne that I read as a kid had a fairly self-produced feel, I do remember it was printed in Belgium (and bound with the plastic things you get at a "copy shop") so I guess that was the 1977 original edition... (nowadays I have a British edition from the early 1980s which, I guess, is the edition that most people had until recently)

I got Lee Collins' autobiography "Oh didn't he ramble" and the Bunk Johnson biography by Mike Hazeldine and Barry Martyn recently at a used bookstore... the Collins' autobiography is easily recommended if you find it, an interesting life turned into a sequence of entertaining stories, most of them not from the center of jazz history - but that's not necessarily a minus. The Bunk Johnson book is nice to have but not necessarily fun to read... It feels like the authors report more or less all the information they have, leading to an incredibly uneven pace in the story. The book begins with an inconclusive chapter on whether Johnson was born in 1879 or 1889 with many arguments given in favor of both positions... Generally, not a whole lot is known about Bunk's early years and there is little the authors could do about it... For Bunk's career between, say 1920 and the time of his rediscovery around 1940, the amount of information is about right. Then, Johnson fell in with a group of fairly pedantic people who carefully documented all of his movements... And, to their credit, I can totally see why they followed Johnson so closely, after all they were fans, they did loads of stuff to advance his career and to them things unfolded in real time... The fault - if there is one - is clearly with the authors of the book... At some point around page 70 out of 250 densely printed pages, as we reach the final eight years of Bunk's long life the pace gets incredibly slow... You read where Bunk got his chicken sandwich, went on a detour for a drink, met the cousin of someone he hadn't seen in 35 years... when I first read a page like that, I expected something totally remarkable to happen next - say, he declares war on Japan - because why else would you document a particular day in such detail... but, instead, Bunk plays a concert that's not well attended and doesn't arrive at home until 8am... and no, not every day in Bunk's final eight years is documented in that much detail but many are... less than a hundred pages to go but I am not sure whether I'll be able to finish this book... 

[adh1907]

On 11/1/2024 at 10:36 AM, Big Beat Steve said:

That's these, then?

https://www.amazon.com/JAZZ-WEST-COAST-READER-1/dp/B0DHH5XCBH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32VZIFEF5FCFZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4tZq_hyHXMwuhd7k_QBtwX0nNP2yIIUqx5pWbdfOyhvVauPjAMofHOqrEUf3Q3N1.Pp33glJKKFeeUb4eVHf9z5B5P8dm2Ilrcpn4agxFNlg&dib_tag=se&keywords=jazz+west+coast+a+reader+vol.+1&qid=1730457553&sprefix=jazz+west+coast+a+reader+vol.+1%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.de/Jazz-West-Coast-Reader-2/dp/B0DL5KLL88/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=34OY611GEG4LX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sOQu3lttK2O3sJHOpUMyQDVYCMmIoAcgQ9rW6O-sMLF3-stERqELi5c9u50hTN-70b1uBL_tqof6pNvMkIt8E6dXSOrc2lTXY8rVG-YWIum2B3L1D3RtNLt6VSHjK85KJMCoyqtP0PgjaSGg8NgkRARuCaOG_Hk_OvrKCSe551JtXVNBUyPvhKlON5wTbsikMBLfkgCEwc5cF15XMa8rNFhbslkm6fwkBXD3Cy0XqIk.q0-cU5wYtpauLXk-DWH3LuIAjuxPDJqqaPWIImwwmwY&dib_tag=se&keywords=Jazz+West+Coast+A+Reader&qid=1730456930&sprefix=jazz+west+coast+a+reader%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-2

So what are your impressions of Vol. 1? A "review" would be appreciated very much.

I'm very tempted. To keep the JWC history books by Gioia, Gordon and Tercinet company on my bookshelf. But I wonder in which way these complement and expand the above books. Or do their contents tend towards the anecdotical approach of "The Melody Lingers On" by Jules and Jo Brooks Fox (which isn't bad but I find it a bit fuzzy and unfocused within the overall framework of WCJ).

So any feedback on the above two books should be interesting.

 

A cut and paste merchant. No original material or comment. 

[Big Beat Steve]

10 hours ago, adh1907 said:

A cut and paste merchant. No original material or comment. 

This is the impression I eventually got when I checked the tables of contents of both books. So it all depends on how easily accessible the sources are. I know I already have "Modern Jazz" by Alun Morgan, the Robert Gordon JWC book (I guess it is this BOOK he quotes from when Robert Gordon is mentioned as the source) and JazzLife. As for the rest and maybe more obscure sources hard to locate ...? Who knows? I know Down Beat is no mystery anymore since the volumes could be accessed and downloaded via the World Radio History site. But to how much trouble to search each feature article would one want to go to? Or what would it be worth to have everything in one place and at your fingertips?
We'll see ...

[Big Beat Steve]

16 hours ago, Niko said:

I got Lee Collins' autobiography "Oh didn't he ramble" and the Bunk Johnson biography by Mike Hazeldine and Barry Martyn recently at a used bookstore... the Collins' autobiography is easily recommended if you find it, an interesting life turned into a sequence of entertaining stories, most of them not from the center of jazz history - but that's not necessarily a minus. The Bunk Johnson book is nice to have but not necessarily fun to read... It feels like the authors report more or less all the information they have, leading to an incredibly uneven pace in the story. The book begins with an inconclusive chapter on whether Johnson was born in 1879 or 1889 with many arguments given in favor of both positions... Generally, not a whole lot is known about Bunk's early years and there is little the authors could do about it... For Bunk's career between, say 1920 and the time of his rediscovery around 1940, the amount of information is about right. Then, Johnson fell in with a group of fairly pedantic people who carefully documented all of his movements... And, to their credit, I can totally see why they followed Johnson so closely, after all they were fans, they did loads of stuff to advance his career and to them things unfolded in real time... The fault - if there is one - is clearly with the authors of the book... At some point around page 70 out of 250 densely printed pages, as we reach the final eight years of Bunk's long life the pace gets incredibly slow... You read where Bunk got his chicken sandwich, went on a detour for a drink, met the cousin of someone he hadn't seen in 35 years... when I first read a page like that, I expected something totally remarkable to happen next - say, he declares war on Japan - because why else would you document a particular day in such detail... but, instead, Bunk plays a concert that's not well attended and doesn't arrive at home until 8am... and no, not every day in Bunk's final eight years is documented in that much detail but many are... less than a hundred pages to go but I am not sure whether I'll be able to finish this book... 

Your impressions of the Bunk Johnson bio made me smile ... Seems like a labor of love, but one for hardcore fans only (who'd soak up every snippet of the life of their hero).
Reminds me of a musician and entertainer you ought to know from German TV (Götz A., long-time co-host of the "Zimmer frei" show, a.o. ) once wrote (tongue-in-cheek) in his self-published fanzine in his younger days (around 1980): "I'd happily listen to a 10-LP box of Jerry Lee Lewis brushing his teeth!"

Edited November 4 by Big Beat Steve

[Niko]

20 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Your impressions of the Bunk Johnson bio made me smile ... Seems like a labor of love, but one for hardcore fans only (who'd soak up every snippet of the life of their hero).
Reminds me of a musician and entertainer you ought to know from German TV (Götz A., long-time co-host of the "Zimmer frei" show, a.o. ) once wrote (tongue-in-cheek) in his self-published fanzine in his younger days (around 1980): "I'd happily listen to a 10-LP box of Jerry Lee Lewis brushing his teeth!"

Of course, I know Zimmer Frei but never heard about the Fanzine... I could imagine that part of the problem is that it finishes Bill Russell's unfinished Bunk Johnson book, using his research... Which may have created a psychological barrier to editing the material more radically...