Charlie Rouse redux

[Daniel A]

5 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

In an interesting twist, I was once in a McDonald’s in Murfreesboro, Tennessee many moons ago and they were playing Miles Davis over the PA. 

Weird part being this recording was clearly a more recent one as the production on it sounded far too modern. So I asked an employee who they were playing. They checked. 

It was Wallace Roney. Playing the trumpet that Miles gave him. 

That was kinda freaky. 

 

5 hours ago, Peter Friedman said:

I have always believed that being able to identify a soloist was a positive thing. It means that the player has an individual sound or style of phrasing that makes him ( or her) stand out from other players.

You can always identify a Big Mac, but does that make it great food?

[JSngry]

As I used to like to say, you can’t use Billy Harper to sell hamburgers.

That was true then, and as far as I can tell, is true today.

[John Tapscott]

 Just reading through this thread for the first time. Very interesting.  Will have to listen to some more Rouse, esp. with Monk.  But I agree with the general consensus that Rouse's playing is more interesting away from Monk, esp, when other other horns are involved. This one, for example, which I don't think has been mentioned but is excellent and very enjoyable IMHO.   

Edited July 31, 2018 by John Tapscott

[Scott Dolan]

48 minutes ago, JSngry said:

As I used to like to say, you can’t use Billy Harper to sell hamburgers.

That was true then, and as far as I can tell, is true today.

And who has tried it? 

Get back to me when some fast food joint loses money on their Billy Harper campaign. 

Checkmate.

[JSngry]

The question is not who has tried it, the question is who WOULD try it, where is there any possible synergy?

There is no checkmate in checkers, btw.

[JSngry]

There'll be enough someday? At Wendy's there's enough NOW. With our 4 for 4 deal, we guarantee that you'll run out of money before we run out of food! So quit crying about your hunger - get down to Wendy's and do something about it!

Wendy's - where only babies have an excuse for crying,

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

The question is not who has tried it, the question is who WOULD try it, where is there any possible synergy?

There is no checkmate in checkers, btw.

Oh! Now we’re asking questions! 

Alright then. The question is who HAS tried it, and who WOULDN’T try it?

King me!

Touchdown! 

[JSngry]

Hey, you're aware of what's goin' on in the world today and you know who you are. And you know that more than anything else, you're HUNGRY. So before you make any other meaningful decisions about your life or anybody else's, get down to Mickey D's and get those two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun that have been taking money out of your pockets and putting it into ours for longer than you've been alive and then see how you feel about things.

McDonald's - you're gonna love it how we kill ya'!

You don't have time for your heart. Deal with that stomach of yours. Put some Hardee's in it. Then go chase some tail.

Hardee's = always wild, never peaceful.

[imeanyou]

On 31 July 2018 at 6:46 AM, John Tapscott said:

 Just reading through this thread for the first time. Very interesting.  Will have to listen to some more Rouse, esp. with Monk.  But I agree with the general consensus that Rouse's playing is more interesting away from Monk, esp, when other other horns are involved. This one, for example, which I don't think has been mentioned but is excellent and very enjoyable IMHO.   

I'd go along with this, not just a great Rouse recording but a great recording full stop. Rouse and Shihab play fantastically together. Two guys who played with Monk, plus Davis who made a pretty decent Monk tribute album (no mean feat that- like Mahler cycles everbody and his dog has had a go). 

My feelings about Rouse with Monk have been pretty consistent, he doesn't make me sit up and take too much notice of what he is up to, but he was excellent at keeping the music together and I think the perfect choice for Monk's working band.

As far as I recall (Kelley mentions this in his bio I think),  Monk was impressed with Rouse back when Rouse was still with Ellington and a journeyman horn player scratching a living.  Miles Davis opined that Rouse was one of the few hornmen that sounded good with Monk and knew how Monk operated musically. To me that makes sense. Davis would never hire Rouse in a million years but he understood that it's not always about having a star player in every position. Griffin, Coltrane, Harold Land and Gerry Mulligan never had anything to fear from Rouse as a player but they were never going to be permanent Monk employees. Rouse was a perfect fit for Monk's working band, and since making gigs was what kept food on the table (possibly Monk's paramount concern, after years of relative privation) Rouse seems a sensible choice.

Doing him down as inadequate technically compared to the more storied hornmen who worked with Monk is kind of kicking at an open door. Rouse was good, not great and good enough for Monk and good enough for me. Away from Monk, a different and very interesting proposition.

 

 

 

Monk was no mug when it came to picking musicians, thay had to be good enough to get his music and play it, and reliable enough to make the gig so that Monk got paid.

[John Tapscott]

7 hours ago, imeanyou said:

I'd go along with this, not just a great Rouse recording but a great recording full stop. Rouse and Shihab play fantastically together. Two guys who played with Monk, plus Davis who made a pretty decent Monk tribute album (no mean feat that- like Mahler cycles everbody and his dog has had a go). 

My feelings about Rouse with Monk have been pretty consistent, he doesn't make me sit up and take too much notice of what he is up to, but he was excellent at keeping the music together and I think the perfect choice for Monk's working band.

As far as I recall (Kelley mentions this in his bio I think),  Monk was impressed with Rouse back when Rouse was still with Ellington and a journeyman horn player scratching a living.  Miles Davis opined that Rouse was one of the few hornmen that sounded good with Monk and knew how Monk operated musically. To me that makes sense. Davis would never hire Rouse in a million years but he understood that it's not always about having a star player in every position. Griffin, Coltrane, Harold Land and Gerry Mulligan never had anything to fear from Rouse as a player but they were never going to be permanent Monk employees. Rouse was a perfect fit for Monk's working band, and since making gigs was what kept food on the table (possibly Monk's paramount concern, after years of relative privation) Rouse seems a sensible choice.

Doing him down as inadequate technically compared to the more storied hornmen who worked with Monk is kind of kicking at an open door. Rouse was good, not great and good enough for Monk and good enough for me. Away from Monk, a different and very interesting proposition.

 

 

 

Monk was no mug when it came to picking musicians, thay had to be good enough to get his music and play it, and reliable enough to make the gig so that Monk got paid.

A very good post! Makes sense. You are so right. None of these other guys were ever going to be permanent Monk sidemen. I guess the point is to appreciate Rouse for who he is, not who he isn't.   

[Brad]

8 hours ago, imeanyou said:

I think the perfect choice for Monk's working band.

Miles Davis opined that Rouse was one of the few hornmen that sounded good with Monk and knew how Monk operated musically. To me that makes sense. Davis would never hire Rouse in a million years but he understood that it's not always about having a star player in every position.

An excellent post and I have quoted part of the post that emphasizes what I believe. Every organization — and not just musical ones — needs people who are in support roles. Not everyone can be a star and there’s nothing wrong with that. 

[Scott Dolan]

Nice to see a little more balance and sanity brought to this conversation.  

[ctuck1]

For all you Monk/Rouse lovers/haters, there is a newly-discovered (to my knowledge) recording of an appearance the quartet made at the Odd Fellow Palæet (Mansion) in Copenhagen on March 5, 1963.  Rouse, Monk, John Ore and Frankie Dunlop. 
    
1. Bye-Ya
2. Nutty
3. I'm Getting Sentimental Over You
4. Body Soul
5. Monk's Dream
6. Nutty, Pt.1     
7. Nutty, Pt.2

It's being released by Gearbox (as I understand it with the permission of the Monk estate) this Friday, the 28th.

Available at bandcamp: https://theloniousmonk.bandcamp.com/album/m-nk

[danasgoodstuff]

Smithville (Remastered 2007) - YouTube

I've been listening to Louis Smith's Smithville, which includes Rouse, and quite liking his playing there.  Not as much as I'm liking Sonny Clark's playing, but still quite liking it.  And I could've sworn I'd already said on this thread that I like Rouse with Monk quite fine even if he does sublimate (right word?) his playing to Monk's music.  If you're playing with Monk then you should more or less do that.

Edited December 18, 2021 by danasgoodstuff

[Larry Kart]

His playing on the title track, as well as that of Chambers and Clark, never fails to please me.