Kamasi Washington - Heaven and Earth

[Ken Dryden]

Likewise, I don't stand for a show, arthritic knees prevent it.

[erwbol]

I had a bit of a listen to Heaven and Earth just now, randomly playing tracks from all three discs, and I'm not impressed. I was especially disgusted with the computer distorted vocals on Vi Lua Vi Sol. Not to insult members who like Kamasi Washington, but this is rubbish. Jazzy muzak for people with low standards. Mastering way too loud, of course.

Edited July 26, 2018 by erwbol

[Hot Ptah]

33 minutes ago, erwbol said:

I had a bit of a listen to Heaven and Earth just now, randomly playing tracks from all three discs, and I'm not impressed. I was especially disgusted with the computer distorted vocals on Vi Lua Vi Sol. Not to insult members who like Kamasi Washington, but this is rubbish. Jazzy muzak for people with low standards. Mastering way too loud, of course.

Did you play Hubtones from that album?

[jlhoots]

2 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Good point. Checking the schedule it looks like he is playing in college towns before and after (where the University of Colorado and University of Iowa are located). 

His touring schedule looks impressive. I wonder if he is the opening act st some of the larger venues?

Speaking of in between night bookings, Milwaukee has a jazz club in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Jazz Gallery, which presentsd only “in between” gigs by touring jazz groups. There really wasn’t enough of a jazz audience in the city to support major venue jazz concerts, but artists would play there at this small club on a weeknight, to small and enthusiastic audiences.  Some of the artists I saw there on weeknights were Sam Rivers, Anthony Braxton (solo alto sax), Muhal Richard Abrams Trio, Joe Pass (solo guitar), McCoy Tyner, Clifford Jordan/Barry Harris, Bobby Hutcherson, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers.

In addition I saw Art Pepper, Chet Baker & others at that club. At least I think it was the same place.

[Hot Ptah]

Just now, jlhoots said:

In addition I saw Art Pepper, Chet Baker & others at that club. At least I think it was the same place.

If it was Milwaukee in the 1978-82 period, it was most likely the Jazz Gallery.

[felser]

45 minutes ago, erwbol said:

I had a bit of a listen to Heaven and Earth just now, randomly playing tracks from all three discs, and I'm not impressed. I was especially disgusted with the computer distorted vocals on Vi Lua Vi Sol. Not to insult members who like Kamasi Washington, but this is rubbish. Jazzy muzak for people with low standards. Mastering way too loud, of course.

It's not "jazz" per se, but it's also not "muzak for people with low standards".  And my old ears like loud mastering we all have been through the mastering war discussions enough).    It's a different hybrid that won't work for everyone.  A lot of hip-hop-based music, for instance, does not work for me at all, and I think lowly of that structure,  but it speaks to others, who are better qualified to judge the relative merits of a given work within that sub-hybrid.  IE, if I don't like rap at all, I cannot distinguish between "good" rap and " bad" rap.   Maybe same thing here for you.  You  know you don't like this sort of hybrid thing, but if you don't like any of it, you won't be able to distinguish between good and bad examples of it.  And the Kamasi Washington work is a very very good example of it.

 

On 7/25/2018 at 10:41 PM, Hot Ptah said:

I am glad that you listened to it and gave it a chance.

I liked the last one also

[erwbol]

22 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

Did you play Hubtones from that album?

No.

[Hot Ptah]

45 minutes ago, erwbol said:

No.

You may have a different opinion of the album if you do.

[Scott Dolan]

Weird. I’ve never heard of The Truman. But I don’t attend Rock concerts anymore. 

The only two KC venues I’ve seen shows in are the Sprint Center and The Midland. Neither of which he’d likely fill. 

But hey, good for him and his KC fans. 

[JSngry]

Speaking from experience (albeit slightly aged experience) so-called "underground rock" venues can be good outlet for non-"mainstream" jazz, especially that which has an aggressive (for lack of a better term) energy. You give that audience "tradition", they don't care, yawn. You give them "energy", you got a chance.

[erwbol]

2 hours ago, felser said:

And my old ears like loud mastering we all have been through the mastering war discussions enough).

Many modern albums that already have heavy bass are rendered unlistenable by excessive compression. It's a serious issue, having to listen at very very low volume in order not to cause a rumpus.

[felser]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Speaking from experience (albeit slightly aged experience) so-called "underground rock" venues can be good outlet for non-"mainstream" jazz, especially that which has an aggressive (for lack of a better term) energy. You give that audience "tradition", they don't care, yawn. You give them "energy", you got a chance.

I saw Miles Davis ca. 1973-4 and Jean-Luc Ponty/Gil Scott'Heron and Gato Barbieri/Flora Purim ca. 1975-6 at the  Tower Theatre in Philly, definitely a rock venue (David Bowie recorded that live album there in 1974), and they all went down very well indeed.  Also saw Gil Scott-Heron/The Visitors at the Main Point ca 1974-5, and that also was very well received.

Edited July 26, 2018 by felser

[Justin V]

I slogged through an hour of it and gave up.  My goal was to make it through the whole thing, but life is too short.  If Washington ever develops into a compelling artist, his inability or unwillingness to self-edit (two three-disc sets in a row?!?) and deliver a concise statement of his vision may hurt him.  

[Scott Dolan]

It is a bit...audacious, right? 

 

[erwbol]

15 minutes ago, Justin V said:

I slogged through an hour of it and gave up.  My goal was to make it through the whole thing, but life is too short.  If Washington ever develops into a compelling artist, his inability or unwillingness to self-edit (two three-disc sets in a row?!?) and deliver a concise statement of his vision may hurt him.  

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, felser said:

I saw Miles Davis ca. 1973-4 and Jean-Luc Ponty/Gil Scott'Heron and Gato Barbieri/Flora Purim ca. 1975-6 at the  Tower Theatre in Philly, definitely a rock venue (David Bowie recorded that live album there in 1974), and they all went down very well indeed.  Also saw Gil Scott-Heron/The Visitors at the Main Point ca 1974-5, and that also was very well received.

I've had experiences as recent as three years ago. There's a definite sub-set of the "rock underground" that engages with raw musical energy, no matter the idiom.

Truthfully, I'm kinda like that myself, but not blindly. I need more than just that energy. But I do need that...sense of personal vitality before anything else gets deeply considered.

[sidewinder]

1 hour ago, Justin V said:

I slogged through an hour of it and gave up.  My goal was to make it through the whole thing, but life is too short.  If Washington ever develops into a compelling artist, his inability or unwillingness to self-edit (two three-disc sets in a row?!?) and deliver a concise statement of his vision may hurt him.  

Not far off my thoughts either. Compare the impact that, say, Max Roach or Booker Little can achieve on a 30 minute Candid, with profound statements made and compare with the sprawling ‘covering all the bases’ 3CD behemoth.

Or maybe I’m just getting old ! 

Edited July 26, 2018 by sidewinder

[JSngry]

you are getting old. we all are. But like I tried to make the point of when all this buzz happened with the last record, people of our age don't really need "new" "spiritual jazz", we were there when it happened the last time, musically and culturally. These kids today, hell, you look at all the cultural societal changes that your average 20-something is looking at, they're looking at so much of the same things we looked at then, things we maybe moved ahead on JUST a little bit, and things which sure seem to be getting walked back en masse these days, hell, they need this, or something like it, they must need it, because they keep listening to it. Whether or not it works better this time, I'm skeptical, but I've seen this movie before, now here's the reboot.

Again, "we" are so NOT the target audience for this music. I'm ok with that. Now if the pop equivalent of a new Earth, Wind, & Fire comes along, hey. Worse outomes are possible, perhaps likely. But we gotta see what this iteration becomes.

Keep your head to the sky, ok?

[felser]

16 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Keep your head to the sky, ok?

Amen.

[jlhoots]

Give me Alice Coltrane way over Kamasi any day.

[felser]

26 minutes ago, jlhoots said:

Give me Alice Coltrane way over Kamasi any day.

Well, you can also give me John Coltrane and Dexter Gordon (and Eric Alexander) over Hank Mobley any day, but I'm still glad for Hank Mobley.  

[Scott Dolan]

If Alice and Kamasi were my only choices, I’d find a new hobby. 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, jlhoots said:

Give me Alice Coltrane way over Kamasi any day.

Yeah, well, you're old, she's dead, so what does that look like to young people today who are looking for something to engage with on a social-event basis?

I mean, yeah, ok, me too, but all you guys who say give me XYZ over Kamasi Washington, it's like you're acting like you're being offered a choice and have some kind of right-of-refusal, like Kamasi gives a damn what you want, like you think that your opinion has any validity to him or his audience. It doesn't ok? So it's like, really, you're bitching out loud in a room full of yourselves and no one else is listening, or wants to listen.

And when I say "you", sure, I include myself in there because I have been neither particularly impressed or revolted by the guy's music. But, jsut sayin', it's not my thing to have an opinion about that matters to anybody except more of me.

 

[jlhoots]

I guess we'll all just go on listening to what we prefer whether the players are dead or alive.

[Scott Dolan]

I just find the overly protective nature of Jazz fans to be fascinating. Not that I’m immune to it, mind you. 

But man, if an artist doesn’t meet an incredibly strict and rigid criteria, then they best leave well enough alone and get off our goddamn lawn! 

The irony being that Jazz, almost by definition, is about exploration and trying new things. But you sure as FUCK better get that new thing right, son!