EyeSpeech Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Yeah, the way I see it, the first episode in Season 6 part 2 when Tony and Bobby were fishing and Bobby says, "At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black," was all the clue you need. But the brilliance of the "Don't Stop Believing" song and the way Tony's family was surrounding him...it was done in character all the way. I challenge anyone critical of the ending to come up with a more satisfactory approach. Chase did it right. This was a beloved family in pop culture and a bloodbath would have been wrong on so many levels. The later seasons had acting, writing, arcs and subplots just as strong as the early seasons. The entire Tony-in-a-coma-living-an-alternate-life arc was absolutely brilliant, surpassing anything in the first five seasons. The writers even brought in eastern mysticism and some buddhist references. That line attributed to the Ojibwe, "Sometimes I go about in self pity and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky," was nothing short of a life-changing stunner that applied so deeply in the context of the show and stands just as strongly on its own as an existential tenet. Sheer brilliance. The politics of the mob life also got more interesting as the seasons wore on, with Johnny Sac on a totally unpredictable arc that spawned countless subplots. AJ's suicidal side was also handled well. The music remained strong throughout. The show kept everyone on their toes, guessing through the very end, I'd rather have seasons 2-5 released on Blu-ray than a movie. Quote
Chicago Expat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Interesting to hear a different take on the last seasons. I'm not sure how evenly the opinion is split over first three vs. last three. I agree, if the POV-pattern and what that means the darkness represents, that's pretty cool. And I also agree that a bloodbath would've been, I dunno, kinda melodramatic. But the story arcs in the last couple seasons really came of as stilted, in my opinion. There were some good ideas here and there to be sure, but the way the ideas were written into the story was where the big fail occurred. It was like they knew it was winding down and they had all these themes and concepts they wanted represented in the story and they got them in there at the cost of plausibility and consistency. The story arcs came off as forced. They were gonna find a way to cram all those concepts and themes in there. The actor who played AJ never really sold me on his character, except in the early parts of the series when he was still just a little kid. I did enjoy how they handled Junior's story arc. The gay gangster thing just seemed out of place; I'm not sure if it was supposed to draw some sharp comparison between the reality of the NJ gangster life they were living vs. the life each of them wanted to lead or what, but the whole arc was sluggish. The final scenes with the psychiatrist were pretty useless, though I would've liked them to delve further into her alcoholism and the effect on her for having to treat a sociopath. Actually having a hard time recalling some of the other aspects of the last couple seasons, which I suppose is sort of damning of the series (and/or perhaps my memory, which has never had an enviable reputation). I did enjoy that final scene, however, in the diner. I'm sure there were other things about the last seasons I enjoyed. I sure looked forward to watching a new episode each week, grumbling and all. Hm, I'll have to think about it more. Oh, hey, one actor who wasn't dialing it in was Edie Falco. Damn, she turned it up those last few seasons. The "Whitecaps" season ending episode inre her "affair" with Furio. Well, never mind, that's season 4, which was pretty good. I had a problem with 5 and 6. Quote
Harold_Z Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Bottom line is we can speculate all we want but that ending still leaves it open for what ever may come along. It's fiction. Nobody really dies and if they do you can bring them back. I mean like it's 2022 and Tony lay in a coma for 16 years while Paulie took over the family. I'm being very sarcastic but it's really all about the bucks in the final analysis. Somebody decides they need the bucks and a few others agree - here it comes. I mean Godfather 3 or Rocky 22 ? Quote
JSngry Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 http://www.thechaselounge.net/showthread.php?t=1984 Tony got whacked, until proven otherwise (i.e. - there is impetus for a movie/reunion/etc.). I made my peace with this (almost) four years ago, thanks to that thread on that board. Quote
Chicago Expat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 http://www.thechaselounge.net/showthread.php?t=1984 Tony got whacked, until proven otherwise (i.e. - there is impetus for a movie/reunion/etc.). I made my peace with this (almost) four years ago, thanks to that thread on that board. Damn, that thread sucked me right in. I may as well be watching the show. Quote
JSngry Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 http://www.thechasel...read.php?t=1984 Tony got whacked, until proven otherwise (i.e. - there is impetus for a movie/reunion/etc.). I made my peace with this (almost) four years ago, thanks to that thread on that board. Damn, that thread sucked me right in. I may as well be watching the show. Ya' know, I was so...hit (pun not really intended) by the show's ending that I went looking for some kind of resolution (I know, it's only a tv show, yeah, right) & stumbled across that thread, which stayed pretty lively for a week or two afterward. I didn't want to accept that Tony had gotten killed, but the more I read this thread, the more accepting I became. They were like some kind of group grief counselling or something... That people needed that for a freakin' tv show says something - maybe more than anything else - about how many buttons that show pushed in so many people for so long, I think. Quote
Chicago Expat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Ya' know, I was so...hit (pun not really intended) by the show's ending that I went looking for some kind of resolution (I know, it's only a tv show, yeah, right) & stumbled across that thread, which stayed pretty lively for a week or two afterward. I didn't want to accept that Tony had gotten killed, but the more I read this thread, the more accepting I became. They were like some kind of group grief counselling or something... That people needed that for a freakin' tv show says something - maybe more than anything else - about how many buttons that show pushed in so many people for so long, I think. Yeah, despite the overall negative tone of my posts so far on this thread, The Sopranos is one of my favorite series. It pushed a lot of buttons on me, too. Though in my case, I wanted Tony to get killed. He was such an evil guy and caused so much unhappiness in others, he just deserved no happiness for himself. The whole thing about a guy who causes so much misery going to a psychiatrist because he's depressed was a beautiful contradiction and it really was a forceful undercurrent to the whole show. Tony's mother was right... "Poor you," she'd shout at Tony. The thing is, he really isn't deserving of sympathy (not that I can blame anyone who watched the show for feeling it for him anyway. I certainly found myself hoping throughout the series that he would "get away", up until the end, when I just wanted everyone on the show to get killed. I'm not sure there was anyone who didn't deserve it by the end, except the psychiatrist I suppose.) Quote
EyeSpeech Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Sopranos is a messy show. It often didn't resolve issues or tie up plot lines in a neat way, except during the first couple seasons. I think this is what you're reacting to. The cognitive dissonance caused by Tony being a likable guy the viewer relates to on many levels and also a sociopath/murderer gave viewers discomfort over the course of many seasons. But this is part of the brilliance of the show. Even as Tony killed Chris, as disturbing as that was, you knew in a cerebral/business/strategic sense he was probably doing the right thing because Chris was such a liability going back many years. He was a drug addict, he dabbled in screenplays, he would always hold Tony responsible for Adriana and he was weak enough to be flipped by the feds under the right circumstances. Tony knew it. That's why mafia shows are interesting--loyalty and honor is tested in ways none of us have to deal with in real life. It's interesting that you wanted Tony to get killed rather than leave the mafia or get thrown in jail. I do agree about that arc in season 6 part 1 following the gay captain in Tony's crew. That resulted in zero insight, character development, subplot or worthwhile narrative. I see it as Chase's only mistake in the entire saga. Edited February 26, 2011 by EyeSpeech Quote
Chicago Expat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Yes, I like how you refer to the Sopranos as a messy show. That's a rather apt description. I'm still bugged by the lack of resolution on the "missing Russian". As far as the cognitive dissonance resulting from liking a bad character, it's an experience I commonly enjoy in my tv/movie/books/etc. Nuance and contradiction are some of favorite character building tools. The Sopranos did it very well. I would've been okay with jail, too. The image of Tony Soprano in a supermax prison works just fine for me. Quote
JSngry Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Most everybody has gangster in them. Most everybody has killer in them. Most everybody has Tony Soprano in them. Them that don't are either liars or true rarities. Mostly the former, I'd wager. Quote
EyeSpeech Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 ...Most everybody has killer in them... Them that don't are either liars or true rarities. Mostly the former, I'd wager. Dang you can really talk some trash! Quote
Chicago Expat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 P.S. You're right about the music being solid throughout. I'm still blown away by the genius of using Material's "Seven Souls" for the opening montage of season six. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzNB_Y9cXi4 Quote
EyeSpeech Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Yep, that sequence was awesome! I also liked the sequence "It Was a Very Good Year" in season 2. Quote
ghost of miles Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 A teaching moment with Tony Soprano. Quote
EyeSpeech Posted March 2, 2011 Report Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Yep, great scene...perfectly delivered lines. Edited March 2, 2011 by EyeSpeech Quote
ghost of miles Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 Chris and Paulie vs. the Russian Quote
Dave James Posted March 10, 2011 Report Posted March 10, 2011 Chris and Paulie vs. the Russian One of my favorite scenes. Total Keystone Cops. Quote
EyeSpeech Posted March 11, 2011 Report Posted March 11, 2011 Pine Barrens...an instant classic. Quote
mikelz777 Posted March 11, 2011 Report Posted March 11, 2011 They never resolved that one did they? We never found out what happened with that Russian guy. Quote
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