In Your Opinion, Is There Such a Thing as an Ideal Album Duration?

[JSngry]

6 hours ago, mjzee said:

Now consider Dexter's "Tanya" from One Flight Up.  18+ minutes.  Think of how much better that would have been if they had edited it down to half its length.  Tightness, punchiness would make it more memorable, and wouldn't impose on the listener. 

Do you feel imposed upon by that record? If so, hey:

A record has no charted-by-law responsibility to be liked, by anybody.

I'm kinda like, you know, if I feel a record is imposing on me, really imposing, you know, like I DO hate it, I REALLY hate it, I shut it off. Not that hard, and I keep score. If it happens too often from the same person, fuck them, right? My prerogative. They can make any kind of record them and their audiences like, or will be thought to like, and still, fuck them. If I continue to let them waste my time, if I continue to be imposed on them, that's on me for not having enough strength of character to just turn that shit off and do something else with my time. Own your time, you know? Your time.

Oh, and yes, Braxton (to show that your point, as weird as it is to the rigidity it seems to be advocated, is not without some merit. First Arista, I know he got some people to buy that record just for this. Now, whether or not they bought another AB album again, ever, hmmm...but the did buy this one. OTOH, people were more open to being curious back then than they are now, and records were cheaper.

And then, this:

So, you know, been there done that, onward.

[mjzee]

Here's a good example of what I'm advocating for:

A nice mix of originals and covers, the covers are a classic (A Train) and more contemporary (Too High), and the originals are a nice mix of styles.  Tracks are in the 4- to 7-minute range.  The album's about an hour long, but some of the originals could probably have been dropped.  All in all, a very nice effort, and enjoyable listening.  And Irby could probably destroy Braxton in a cutting contest.

[JSngry]

18 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Here's a good example of what I'm advocating for:

A nice mix of originals and covers, the covers are a classic (A Train) and more contemporary (Too High), and the originals are a nice mix of styles.  Tracks are in the 4- to 7-minute range.  The album's about an hour long, but some of the originals could probably have been dropped.  All in all, a very nice effort, and enjoyable listening.  And Irby could probably destroy Braxton in a cutting contest.

 

Well, but...it's Sherman Irby. I'm gonna be out of it after at most two cuts no matter what. so...a noble effort for a failed cause, if the cause is to get be to listen longer because it's relatively smaller doses of relatively boring.

And what's this about "destroying" Anthony Braxton? What's the agenda here with that? If Irby brings a blade to cut, Braxton brings a phaser. so what's the point of that at all?

[David Ayers]

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

If Irby brings a blade to cut, Braxton brings a phaser. so what's the point of that at all?

And violate Starfleet’s Prime Directive? I don’t think so. 

[Dan Gould]

19 hours ago, mjzee said:

Take a look at a typical Blue Note release, and see how many tracks are in the 5 to 8 minute range.  More than you might expect.  Now consider Dexter's "Tanya" from One Flight Up.  18+ minutes.  Think of how much better that would have been if they had edited it down to half its length.  Tightness, punchiness would make it more memorable, and wouldn't impose on the listener.  

 

That track is not supposed to be punchy and its one of the most memorable tracks in Blue Note history as far as I am concerned.  Is there a wasted note by Dex, Byrd or KD?  It boggles the mind to think this track is an imposition on you as a listener.

 

[Clunky]

2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

That track is not supposed to be punchy and its one of the most memorable tracks in Blue Note history as far as I am concerned.  Is there a wasted note by Dex, Byrd or KD?  It boggles the mind to think this track is an imposition on you as a listener.

 

Each to his own - as ever. I’d agree with Dan that nothing on One Flight Up overstays it’s welcome.

[Justin V]

For my preferences, the sweet spot is approximately 45-60 minutes.  With compilations like Mosaic sets that have multiple sessions and/or multiple leaders on one disc, extended lengths of 70-80 minutes matter less to me because the variety in personnel breaks things up a bit.  

[paul secor]

Too many factors involved for me to give an answer - how I'm feeling, the type of music, etc.

[JSngry]

5 hours ago, David Ayers said:

And violate Starfleet’s Prime Directive? I don’t think so. 

Point just being that there's two different time/space dimensions involved, thus no need to "destroy".

[medjuck]

There's (an apparently apocryphal)  story that the storage capacity of the cd was developed so that it could contain a complete performance of Beethoven's 9th. 

[GA Russell]

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

There's (an apparently apocryphal)  story that the storage capacity of the cd was developed so that it could contain a complete performance of Beethoven's 9th. 

Joe, when I was in school a music professor once said that it was fairly common when recording for classical maestros to speed up the tempo faster than what the composer had in mind, for the purpose of fitting the piece on the record without interruption.

[JSngry]

I'm about 36 hours removed from hearing a grand performance of the 9th live, and 8 days removed from sitting in the hall for 5 hours (75 minutes of it being intermission of  a grabbing performance of Die Walküre, so the notion of "songs" needing to be a certain length and programs needing to balance originals and standards and all that. I'm just...That time was not an imposition, it was a blessing.

People just need to do what they do and do it well. Do it right, whatever it needs to be right, do that. It's your life, your music, so make it right for you. And if you want to be "popular" then do that. But if you just want to share with whoever else wants to hear it, then do that. And if you want to make a living out of this shit, think about what is really right for that, no easy answers and more wrong ones than right ones. But you know, choices gotsta be made, and you gotta live with them.

[Brad]

Rethinking my position, if you like the music, no length is too long.  

[duaneiac]

Here's a perfect example of an "extended play" recording which works wonderfully for me.  I love it so much that if I ever made a list of Top 20 Favorite Jazz Albums, this CD would definitely be on that list.

This music, though recorded at one concert, was originally released on two albums.  Combined on one CD, the program runs a little over 78 minutes.  This CD meets just about all the criteria I posted about before.  It is a "live" recording.  I think even the applause -- after numbers and for individual solos -- helps to add variety to the listening experience.  It is a mixture of standards, jazz standards, originals and even one original which became a jazz standard (Mongo Santamaria's "Afro Blue").  There is a variety of instrumentation here -- a quartet for some of the more straight-ahead jazz numbers, the added (fantastic!) percussion of Sr. Santamaria and Willie Bobo on the Latin jazz numbers and some selections in both the straight-ahead and Latin jazz formats also include the flute of Paul Horn.  And Lonnie Hewitt!  I really like his playing here and then I realized I think I have only ever heard him on Cal Tjader recordings.  So what was his story?  He seems like a talented player who should have had a bigger career than he did.

The way the albums were sequenced works very well to maintain the listener's interest, varying the tempos and musical styles from track to track.  There are so many high points to this recording, that if you could have but one Cal Tjader recording in your library, this would be the one I would recommend!!

Edited June 1, 2018 by duaneiac

[Guy Berger]

On 5/28/2018 at 11:43 AM, GA Russell said:

Joe, when I was in school a music professor once said that it was fairly common when recording for classical maestros to speed up the tempo faster than what the composer had in mind, for the purpose of fitting the piece on the record without interruption.

It's actually the opposite  - Beethoven-era performance speeds were generally faster than 20th performances, so would have fit easily into a 79 min (or whatever) disc.

[Guy Berger]

On 5/28/2018 at 3:38 AM, Dan Gould said:

That track is not supposed to be punchy and its one of the most memorable tracks in Blue Note history as far as I am concerned.  Is there a wasted note by Dex, Byrd or KD?  It boggles the mind to think this track is an imposition on you as a listener.

 

To each his own, obv, but that track is one of my favorite by DG.

[Guy Berger]

I like recordings around 45 min, and beyond 60 min it's pushing it.  BUT...

It's an unfair presumption that artists releasing a collection of music (album, EP, playlist, whatever) expect listeners to absorb it all in one sitting.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

It's actually the opposite  - Beethoven-era performance speeds were generally faster than 20th performances, so would have fit easily into a 79 min (or whatever) disc.

One of my leading "if you had a time machine" things is to attend the rehearsals for the premier of Beethoven 9. Can you imagine all of that actually happening?

[Ken Dryden]

Most CDs of Beethoven's Ninth easily fit on a single CD that I've seen. The LP era was another issue. Either the movements were spread across two LPs or one was faded midway and faded up on the second side, which was about as enjoyable as the resequencing, fadeouts, omissions or long silences on 8 track tapes, which I never collected in any volume.

I do find that second and third tier artists generally wear out their welcome faster and don't generally put out 75 minutes of music worth hearing in one sitting. I am probably due for another purge, especially of all original CDs by artists whom I can't remember playing again since the first time I heard the CDs and made room for them on the shelves.

Young artists are repeatedly getting bad advice from their teachers to "record your originals so you don't have to pay royalties." If you are a prolific, compelling composer that is one thing, but most twenty-somethings are hard pressed to have more than two or three originals that hold my attention in a single CD. Thinning out such CDs will make run for the stuff that will stand the test of time.

 

[mjzee]

3 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

Young artists are repeatedly getting bad advice from their teachers to "record your originals so you don't have to pay royalties." If you are a prolific, compelling composer that is one thing, but most twenty-somethings are hard pressed to have more than two or three originals that hold my attention in a single CD. Thinning out such CDs will make run for the stuff that will stand the test of time.

 

Hear, hear!  I agree.