BFT 169 Discussion Thread: Enjoyable and Zorn Free

[Mary6170]

I am going to host my second Blindfold Test. My first effort, last year, featured only selections from John Zorn's "Book of Angels" series. It received mixed reactions. Hot Ptah has asked me to not include any John Zorn this time, and to try to make the music selections enjoyable to listen to. I have followed those suggestions.

Here is the link to the Blindfold Test, with my thanks to Thom Keith for setting it up:

http://thomkeith.net/index.php/blindfold-tests/

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Mary6170

[danasgoodstuff]

That's funny, I played some Zorn for a friend decades ago and he's still complaining about it!

[JSngry]

21 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

... try to make the music selections enjoyable to listen to...

I so do not know what that means.

[Hot Ptah]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I so do not know what that means.

I do not want to derail the member’s Blindfold Test so I will send you a private message about this, Jim.

[mjazzg]

Book Of Angels blindfold sounds a great idea and an original thematic approach to me - so much variety in the players and styles within that series. If it got mixed reactions then I'd've thought that was the idea of the exercise. At least mixed means there were some positive responses.

[felser]

Great job on BFT169.  #7 (especially) and #9 are right in my zone, and I can't wait for the reveals!  And several others are intriguing to me.

[hgweber]

i only got jim hall on #1. looking forward to reading the discussion.

[Mary6170]

1 hour ago, hgweber said:

i only got jim hall on #1. looking forward to reading the discussion.

I am sorry to say that Jim Hall is not playing on Track 1.

 

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:02 AM, felser said:

Great job on BFT169.  #7 (especially) and #9 are right in my zone, and I can't wait for the reveals!  And several others are intriguing to me.

Thanks for the very nice comments.

[hgweber]

4 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

I am sorry to say that Jim Hall is not playing on Track 1.

 

now i'm even more intrigued. it*s got that late fifties vibe of jim hall. a final guess: dempsey wright?

[Mary6170]

2 minutes ago, hgweber said:

now i'm even more intrigued. it*s got that late fifties vibe of jim hall. a final guess: dempsey wright?

Sorry, it is not Dempsey Wright either. You have the time period correct though.

[Hot Ptah]

Track #8 is so familiar sounding, but I can't quite place it. Is it Gerald Wilson leading a large ensemble?

[JSngry]

Is that Art Pepper on the first selection?

[Mary6170]

4 hours ago, JSngry said:

Is that Art Pepper on the first selection?

No, it is not Art Pepper.

5 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

Track #8 is so familiar sounding, but I can't quite place it. Is it Gerald Wilson leading a large ensemble?

It is not Gerald Wilson. I think that some may be surprised at who it is.

[Spontooneous]

Please pardon hasty response amid dodgy internet connectivity.

Is that Liberty Ellman on 2?

6, Harry James?

[Mary6170]

5 hours ago, Spontooneous said:

Please pardon hasty response amid dodgy internet connectivity.

Is that Liberty Ellman on 2?

6, Harry James?

Track 2 is not Liberty Ellman. I have never heard of Liberty Ellman.

 

Track 6 is Harry James. I picked it because I like his solo on this track. 

[JSngry]

Can only listen in short spurts now, sorry.

# 4 is intriguing for me, Wurlitzer, not Rhodes, and the tenor player's vocabulary, time, and vibrato all sound very "non-American". I would say African, but that would be such a cliche.

#5...what tenor player was that much influenced by the Eddie Harris exercise book. I don't know, but it's interesting to hear that, along with the Caroline Noh Singers at the beginning.

Is #6 an Eddie Sauter or Mel Powell chart? I know I've heard it a few times, but not enough to know it by name. Sounds like a Goodman Columbia record. Oh my, strings, never mind! That's a good band, drummer might be a bit on the stiff side, but oh well, right?

#8 - Toshiko? Clare Fischer? The writing definitely has a voice. Maybe Don Ellis, doesn't sound like an Ellis band though. But the chart definitely has an Ellis-ian contour to it, even if it ultimately seems to be in 4, when it's not in 6.

#10, I was really hoping for a big band to come in.

 

 

 

 

[xybert]

Track 9 is Hank Jones/TheGreatJazzTrio - Favors

[Mary6170]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Can only listen in short spurts now, sorry.

# 4 is intriguing for me, Wurlitzer, not Rhodes, and the tenor player's vocabulary, time, and vibrato all sound very "non-American". I would say African, but that would be such a cliche.

#5...what tenor player was that much influenced by the Eddie Harris exercise book. I don't know, but it's interesting to hear that, along with the Caroline Noh Singers at the beginning.

Is #6 an Eddie Sauter or Mel Powell chart? I know I've heard it a few times, but not enough to know it by name. Sounds like a Goodman Columbia record. Oh my, strings, never mind! That's a good band, drummer might be a bit on the stiff side, but oh well, right?

#8 - Toshiko? Clare Fischer? The writing definitely has a voice. Maybe Don Ellis, doesn't sound like an Ellis band though. But the chart definitely has an Ellis-ian contour to it, even if it ultimately seems to be in 4, when it's not in 6.

#10, I was really hoping for a big band to come in.

 

 

 

 

4. Sometimes it is good to go with your first impulse.

5. I wondered if everyone had this album and it would be too easy. I am very old so I may have outlived what is commonly known today.

6. The member with the lard container as his image has correctly identified the leader. To me, this unassuming Track has one of his better recorded solos.

8. None of those. You may fall out of your chair when you learn who it is.

10. The leader played in a rather famous large ensemble led by a legendary musician. He did not adopt the big band format for his solo effort.

1 hour ago, xybert said:

Track 9 is Hank Jones/TheGreatJazzTrio - Favors

Oh you are correct. Hank Jones, Ron Carter and Tony Williams. This one particular track has always grabbed me somehow.

[Mary6170]

On 4/2/2018 at 11:02 AM, felser said:

Great job on BFT169.  #7 (especially) and #9 are right in my zone, and I can't wait for the reveals!  And several others are intriguing to me.

Did you see that Track 9, which you said is in your zone, is “Favors”  by Hank Jones, Ron Carter and Tony Williams, The Great Jazz Trio at the Village Vanguard?

[felser]

2 hours ago, Mary6170 said:

Did you see that Track 9, which you said is in your zone, is “Favors”  by Hank Jones, Ron Carter and Tony Williams, The Great Jazz Trio at the Village Vanguard?

Thanks!  Never would have guessed Hank Jones!

[tkeith]

Zorn can be enjoyable... and he can be un-enjoyable.  This one was enjoyable, even where I differed with choices.  

Track 01 - West coastiness. Something very... proper(?) about the arpeggios in the alto player's solo. It's not stiff... but it's close.

 

Track 02 - This sounds familiar rather quickly. I knew there was something quirky in that mix. Is that a banjo? No... brass guitar? Something odd in that bass, too. Acoustic bass guitar, maybe? Pizzacato cello? This is intriguing. It's odd, but remains musical. There's something almost Kenny Wheeler-ish about the trumpet, in a very good way. Like Kenny and Freddie Hubbard produced an offspring. Aha! Well, that's Oliver Lake. So maybe that could be someone along the lines of Hugh Ragin on trumpet. That strange-ish bass sound could be Abdul Wadad on cello. And the more I'm hearing the drummer, the more I'm getting a Cyrille vibe.

 

Track 03 - Solo piano, older. Unsure.

 

Track 04 - I like the vibe of this from the git go. Tenor has that vibrato quality that Byard Lancaster had on alto. Players struck me as avant garde players, but that's not the vibe, at all.

 

Track 05 - Early on with the dogs was just weird enough to get me thinking Bill Dixon, but then it got all groovy. Hell, I like dogs -- I'm in. I was almost leaning Eddie Harris, then it hit me, that sure sounds like Rahsaan. And then, it sounds a little more controlled than Rahsaan. Definitely not Eddie. Okay, definitely Rahsaan, but not sure of the recording. Dig the groove, though. Is that a bassoon in my left ear? Intriguing. Can only name two guys who play that in the genre and I don't think it's either.

 

Track 06 - That IS a different direction. Pretty straight forward swing, after the head. Maybe Budd Freeman on tenor? Not sure the band.

 

Track 07 - Ooooo.. tasty. Man, this feels very LA to me. It's not Tapscott, but I think it's a disciple. It's not Adele Sebastian, so that leaves me wondering which of the doublers it might be (though, in truth, this sure sounds like a flute player to me). More polish on the piano than the Tapscott crowd, but I'm realling thinking Roberto Miquel Miranda on bass and Sonship Theus on drums. Very snappy drums, digging them a lot. That McCoy-ish lefthand is a big selling point for me, as well. Yeah, I'm going to commit and say flute is the main axe for this player. Some groaning in there, but not quite to the level of Harold Alexander. Perhaps James Newton? This is an absolute keeper for me.

 

Track 08 - Odd. Heavily brass ensemble, heavily arranged, busy drums, but it works. Not sure how often I'd go to this well, but it's a refreshing drink at the moment. Get's a bit more common when it breaks into the Jazz waltz feel, but still works. The opening section had me thinking of Charles Tolliver's Brass Company. I'm almost wondering if this might be from Charles' current big band, as that sounds like Donald Harrison on alto. Arrangement has a bit of an edge to it, as well.

 

Track 09 - HANK JONES! The Great Jazz Trio. This is SUCH a great track! Track B1 from this. One day, I WILL cover this tune. Hank is a forgotten hero of this music. Should be mentioned as frequently as Barry Harris or Tommy Flanagan. Stellar!

 

Track 10 - Niceness. Very tasteful ballad. Not sure who the 'bone player is, only who it isn't. It's pleasant, but not overly memorable. Certainly a nod is due to Freddie Hubbard. At first I was thinking a controlled Hannibal, but that's not the case. Maybe Jeremy Pelt? Again, seems a bit more controlled. I like this, but prefer the trumpet player to the trombone (though that's purely preference -- both are fine efforts). So refreshing to hear a ballad that REMAINS a ballad.

 

Track 11 - Has a very Vijay Iyer feel to it (and I mean that in a good way). It's complicated rhythmically, but remains musical. Vijay manages that where so many fail. Piano solo gets VERY busy, but that bugs me less than the putrid electric bass. Again, just a preferential thing, but I truly loathe that instrument 99% of the time. About 4:58, I turned into Montgomery Burns - "Alright... it's beginning to grate a little..." Almost wondering if this might be Martina Almgren's band. Seems like they may be a couple of steps ahead of that from a technical standpoint. Clearly, these are good players, but... I hate to be the curmudgeon, but... "sing me a song, baby." Gets a little too into the world of Chris Potter towards the end. I think I would have been wowed if the whole thing were about 5-1/2 minutes. This is just too busy for too long to suit my tastes.

 

Sorry about the color background, it's a Chromebook thing, and I got paid to take this test.

Ah... I see I'm not as isolated in my appreciation of Hank Jones as I thought.  Got to see him towards the end, and glad I did.  A true master.

[Mary6170]

2 hours ago, tkeith said:

Zorn can be enjoyable... and he can be un-enjoyable.  This one was enjoyable, even where I differed with choices.  

Track 01 - West coastiness. Something very... proper(?) about the arpeggios in the alto player's solo. It's not stiff... but it's close.

 

Track 02 - This sounds familiar rather quickly. I knew there was something quirky in that mix. Is that a banjo? No... brass guitar? Something odd in that bass, too. Acoustic bass guitar, maybe? Pizzacato cello? This is intriguing. It's odd, but remains musical. There's something almost Kenny Wheeler-ish about the trumpet, in a very good way. Like Kenny and Freddie Hubbard produced an offspring. Aha! Well, that's Oliver Lake. So maybe that could be someone along the lines of Hugh Ragin on trumpet. That strange-ish bass sound could be Abdul Wadad on cello. And the more I'm hearing the drummer, the more I'm getting a Cyrille vibe.

 

You have some of it correct. Playing on this Track are Oliver Lake, Hugh Ragin, and Andrew Cyrille. You have impressive ears, to pick them out. The rest of your comments are not as spot on.

 

Track 03 - Solo piano, older. Unsure.

 

Track 04 - I like the vibe of this from the git go. Tenor has that vibrato quality that Byard Lancaster had on alto. Players struck me as avant garde players, but that's not the vibe, at all.

 

You are not particularly close to indentifying what, or who, this is.

 

Track 05 - Early on with the dogs was just weird enough to get me thinking Bill Dixon, but then it got all groovy. Hell, I like dogs -- I'm in. I was almost leaning Eddie Harris, then it hit me, that sure sounds like Rahsaan. And then, it sounds a little more controlled than Rahsaan. Definitely not Eddie. Okay, definitely Rahsaan, but not sure of the recording. Dig the groove, though. Is that a bassoon in my left ear? Intriguing. Can only name two guys who play that in the genre and I don't think it's either.

 

It is Rahsaan Roland Kirk.. I am surprised that no one knows this album. I thought that this would be too easy. I thought that everyone had this album.

 

Track 06 - That IS a different direction. Pretty straight forward swing, after the head. Maybe Budd Freeman on tenor? Not sure the band.

 

It is not Bud Freeman. It has already been identified as Harry James. The song title and tenor saxophone soloist have not been named.

 

Track 07 - Ooooo.. tasty. Man, this feels very LA to me. It's not Tapscott, but I think it's a disciple. It's not Adele Sebastian, so that leaves me wondering which of the doublers it might be (though, in truth, this sure sounds like a flute player to me). More polish on the piano than the Tapscott crowd, but I'm realling thinking Roberto Miquel Miranda on bass and Sonship Theus on drums. Very snappy drums, digging them a lot. That McCoy-ish lefthand is a big selling point for me, as well. Yeah, I'm going to commit and say flute is the main axe for this player. Some groaning in there, but not quite to the level of Harold Alexander. Perhaps James Newton? This is an absolute keeper for me.

 

I believe that you will be quite surprised when you find out who this is, on each instrument.

 

Track 08 - Odd. Heavily brass ensemble, heavily arranged, busy drums, but it works. Not sure how often I'd go to this well, but it's a refreshing drink at the moment. Get's a bit more common when it breaks into the Jazz waltz feel, but still works. The opening section had me thinking of Charles Tolliver's Brass Company. I'm almost wondering if this might be from Charles' current big band, as that sounds like Donald Harrison on alto. Arrangement has a bit of an edge to it, as well.

 

It is not Charles Tolliver, and Donald Harrison does not play on it. You have made some very interesting comments here.

 

Track 09 - HANK JONES! The Great Jazz Trio. This is SUCH a great track! Track B1 from this. One day, I WILL cover this tune. Hank is a forgotten hero of this music. Should be mentioned as frequently as Barry Harris or Tommy Flanagan. Stellar!

 

Yes. I agree with everything you have said.

 

Track 10 - Niceness. Very tasteful ballad. Not sure who the 'bone player is, only who it isn't. It's pleasant, but not overly memorable. Certainly a nod is due to Freddie Hubbard. At first I was thinking a controlled Hannibal, but that's not the case. Maybe Jeremy Pelt? Again, seems a bit more controlled. I like this, but prefer the trumpet player to the trombone (though that's purely preference -- both are fine efforts). So refreshing to hear a ballad that REMAINS a ballad.

 

Again, those are very interesting comments. You have not identified any of the musicians.

 

Track 11 - Has a very Vijay Iyer feel to it (and I mean that in a good way). It's complicated rhythmically, but remains musical. Vijay manages that where so many fail. Piano solo gets VERY busy, but that bugs me less than the putrid electric bass. Again, just a preferential thing, but I truly loathe that instrument 99% of the time. About 4:58, I turned into Montgomery Burns - "Alright... it's beginning to grate a little..." Almost wondering if this might be Martina Almgren's band. Seems like they may be a couple of steps ahead of that from a technical standpoint. Clearly, these are good players, but... I hate to be the curmudgeon, but... "sing me a song, baby." Gets a little too into the world of Chris Potter towards the end. I think I would have been wowed if the whole thing were about 5-1/2 minutes. This is just too busy for too long to suit my tastes.

 

I agree that the track is busy. I was wondering what the listeners here would think of this. You have mentioned some names, none of whom appear on this Track.

 

Sorry about the color background, it's a Chromebook thing, and I got paid to take this test.

Ah... I see I'm not as isolated in my appreciation of Hank Jones as I thought.  Got to see him towards the end, and glad I did.  A true master.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Mary6170

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Thanks to Bill, I've had a listen to #4. It's South African, not from the patch I know best, West Africa, but I think it's Winston 'Mankunku' Ngozi.

I think I've said once or twice on the board that, if you come across anything of his, don't toy with your scruples, buy it.

MG

[Mary6170]

6 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Thanks to Bill, I've had a listen to #4. It's South African, not from the patch I know best, West Africa, but I think it's Winston 'Mankunku' Ngozi.

I think I've said once or twice on the board that, if you come across anything of his, don't toy with your scruples, buy it.

MG

I am glad that you have listened. #4 is not from a South African muaician. This is not Winston  Mankunku Ngozi. Now i want to hear his music. 

Did you listen to tbe next song, Track #5? It might be in your area of listening preference.

 

[corto maltese]

I think track 2 is Spencer Barefield's "Escape From Bizarro World" from this album: