Buell Neidlinger RIP

[JSngry]

yeah, poor jazz, all those outcats drove the audience away. and to what? where? where are all these people that would have stayed if the music hadn't gotten so weird, or whatever it became. by now, many of them are dead, so...who cares?

when the "avant-garde" was at it's peak, so were the "popularizers". Pretty sure that Ornette did not sell as many records as Cannonball, but also pretty sure that Ornette sold more than a few, and not just initially. Definitely sure that Cecil didn't sell as many records as Oscar Peterson, but there is an audience there, still, and there are plenty records. Hell, I tried to get standby tickets for a CT Carnegie Hall gig in 1981(?) and it soon became evident that that was just not gonna happen. SRO and I got there too late to S.

Ornette did not destroy the audience for Cannonball, nor did Oscar Peterson destroy the audience for Cecil Taylor. Quit worrying about who does or doesn't like "your" music.

 

[paul secor]

I'll drop out of this discussion. I love and respect Buell Neidlinger's music and this should be about him, so I'll let it go at that.

[JSngry]

Same thing happened in the Olly Wilson thread, turned into a well-lathered ramp against serialism, but oh well, Olly Wilson is bigger than any rant, so was Buell Neidlinger, so is Cecil Taylor, so is Mary Lou Williams, so is most music. Music is bigger - and better - than the people who both make and listen to it.

[medjuck]

https://thebluemoment.com/    has a great summary of Buell's contributions to all sorts of music. 

[mjazzg]

You can always rely on Williams to write thoughtful and informed pieces. A touching tribute

[paul secor]

8 hours ago, medjuck said:

https://thebluemoment.com/    has a great summary of Buell's contributions to all sorts of music. 

Thanks for posting the link.

[felser]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:45 PM, JSngry said:

Besides, I don't think that Cranshaw could hang with Cecil either. Why should he, or he with him, that's some Disney-esque Small World After All fantasy bullshit. Those were two guys of the same time, but different time, same places but different places, yeahyeahyeah it's all the same, but only after it's not. It wasn't on any of those people to be able to cross across the lines, hell, they were too busy making their mark on their own lines.

But Max had NO problem with Cecil, gave as good as he got in that one, so, Bob Cranshaw, yeah, sure, whatever, but that does not account for Max Roach, does it now.

As for Buell Neidlinger, RIP. We need line crossers as well as line makers, otherwise a line might as well be  a fence instead of a point of reference.

Where do Kenny Dorham, John Coltrane, Bill Barron, and Ted Curson fit into this discussion?

[JSngry]

KD HATED Cecil. The other guys, not so much. IIRC, there was a thing on Wolfgang's of Bill Barron playing with Cecil that is A-OK. Bill Barron had a great musical mind, maybe a great mind period, all I can vouch for is his musical mind, though. So where's that Mosaic gonna happen?

[mjazzg]

Just read this, entertaining

https://www.allaboutjazz.com/buell-neidlinger-from-taylor-to-zappa-to-the-carpenters-buell-neidlinger-by-clifford-allen.php?pg=1

I trust Clifford's OK with it being posted here. If not, apologies

[Hardbopjazz]

R.I.P.

[clifford_thornton]

7 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Just read this, entertaining

https://www.allaboutjazz.com/buell-neidlinger-from-taylor-to-zappa-to-the-carpenters-buell-neidlinger-by-clifford-allen.php?pg=1

I trust Clifford's OK with it being posted here. If not, apologies

of course. That was a fun experience and the third musician I ever interviewed.

8 hours ago, JSngry said:

IIRC, there was a thing on Wolfgang's of Bill Barron playing with Cecil that is A-OK. Bill Barron had a great musical mind, maybe a great mind period, all I can vouch for is his musical mind, though. So where's that Mosaic gonna happen?

Newport '65 I believe. Barron continued playing with Cecil off and on into the later '60s.

[mjzee]

https://jazztimes.com/news/buell-neidlinger-dies-at-82/

[clifford_thornton]

Richard Williams remembers:

https://thebluemoment.com/2018/03/19/buell-neidlinger-1936-2018/

[Holy Ghost]

Dam. His work with Cecil still sticks with me, can still here him playing in my head. 

[sgcim]

Terry Gross is playing her interview with Buell today on Fresh Air sometime around 2:30pm or so on WNYC.

If you miss it, you can probably find it in her archives. She's married to some guy who writes about jazz, so she's been featuring jazz once in a while.

[alankin]

28 minutes ago, sgcim said:

Terry Gross is playing her interview with Buell today on Fresh Air sometime around 2:30pm or so on WNYC.

If you miss it, you can probably find it in her archives. She's married to some guy who writes about jazz, so she's been featuring jazz once in a while.

Maybe you were being sarcastic, but I wanted to note that Terry Gross has been interviewing musicians, including jazz musicians for more than twenty years.

[sgcim]

27 minutes ago, alankin said:

Maybe you were being sarcastic, but I wanted to note that Terry Gross has been interviewing musicians, including jazz musicians for more than twenty years.

Yeah, and she still asks stupid questions. She asked Buell, "Buell, you've been playing the music of great composers. What did you get from that?

BN: "What did I get from that?"

TG: "Yeah"

BN: Umm... I guess I got the joy of playing great music...?"

[paul secor]

NY Times obituary: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/25/obituaries/buell-neidlinger-dies.html

[clifford_thornton]

haha!

[AllenLowe]

in reply to SGCIM, Terry is very knowledgeable about jazz, is married to Francis Davis, one of our finest writers on jazz, and is one of the best interviewers in the business. As for Buell's response, I would rather listen to it, but the question is much more nuanced than his response allows. As a musician, I know exactly what she is getting at.

Edited March 27, 2018 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

I know what they're both getting at, and they're both totally appropriate.

[sgcim]

24 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I know what they're both getting at, and they're both totally appropriate.

Then she asked him how he was able to get the gig playing with Cecil Taylor, and Buell said, "No other bass player in town wanted to play with Cecil. I was the only one who didn't turn him down.

[JSngry]

well, yeah.

[sgcim]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

in reply to SGCIM, Terry is very knowledgeable about jazz, is married to Francis Davis, one of our finest writers on jazz, and is one of the best interviewers in the business. As for Buell's response, I would rather listen to it, but the question is much more nuanced than his response allows. As a musician, I know exactly what she is getting at.

Considering that Buell played the music of some of the greatest composers that ever lived, what was he supposed to say?

I agree that TG is a generally a good interviewer, but she tries to be too controversial sometimes, at the expense of the person being interviewed.

In Gary Burton's autobiography, 'Learning To Listen', GB said that TG outed him as gay without asking him about it beforehand- in front of the entire Public Radio audience!

She has a history of springing the most personal questions imaginable. We sit there and listen to her saying, "NO! Please tell me that she didn't just ask that poor person that question!"

As for her jazz interviews, I mentioned that she was married to an excellent jazz writer, but that doesn't mean that she necessarily gets her questions from him. 

I've listened to her for years (even before Larry King, the man than that never reads any books of the authors that he''s going to be interviewing (!), called her the greatest interviewer 

in the world), and IMHO she's much stronger on her rock and/or roll interviews.

It was a sad loss for WNYC when they fired Leonard Lopate, who was an excellent jazz interviewer.

On 3/21/2018 at 9:16 PM, clifford_thornton said:

of course. That was a fun experience and the third musician I ever interviewed.

Newport '65 I believe. Barron continued playing with Cecil off and on into the later '60s.

Your interview with Buell was fantastic!

[AllenLowe]

I would have to ask Terry about the Gary Burton claim; that just does not sound like her. Yes, she asks personal questions, but of people who have gone pubic with personal issues. But I am intrigued by the accusation.