Grace Kelly

[JSngry]

Oh hell, that's a ballet right there!

[Big Beat Steve]

Just watched the video of that pink-clad Leo P. doing "Better Git It In Your Soul". Fun, entertaining and foot-tapping, for sure, but how many tunes played one after another like that (with THAT "shtick" as some are wont to say around here ) can you stand in such a setting without a feeling of things becoming just a wee bit repetitive? (The second video equaled the score a bit, but that dancing-honking thing seems to be his core act) And what's that string (as opposed to "jazz on string instruments") section doing there? Waters everything down for commercial appeal with the broad, non-jazz-minded masses? Ho hum ...

But the REAL thing: HOW MANY of all those art-minded "serious" jazz connoisseurs (including quite a handful of forumists ) out there have been moaning for soo long about those bad, bad, commercial R&B sax honkers and jump blues men who showed in the 40s and 50s that jazz CAN be played AND danced to AND get a foot-tapping groove going that gets you going but had to take the whipping from the ivory-tower "art" jazz crowd for "dumbing down" the oh so lofty art of the jazzman-turned-artists and certainly NOT entertainer? Even soul jazz had to take an unfair beating time and again later on ... Totally ignoring that there are MANY ways to skin a cat, that music serves a purpose and that jazz is a VERY wide field and one approach doesn't necessarily invalidate the other if the purpose is taken into account.

So, take note, Leo P.: The REAL Leo P. (PARKER ), Big Jay McNeely, Chuck Higgins et al. did that thing (and more) 60 years ago ... And the novelty NOW only is because we don't have much period video footage to speak of and only Bob Willoughby's photos to try to re-live the onstage impact ...

And is his pink stage attire in those videos a coincidence? Reminds me of a horn-blowing Brian Setzer trying to jump on the Cherry Poppin Daddies bandwagon. Nothing bad in itself - and I still feel there was much to serve as an inspiration for a new approach to ANOTHER strain of danceable jazz in the musically more successful parts of that retro swing movement of the 90s (that still hasn't abated totally worldwide, take note!). I've never particularly liked punk rock but found some interesting crossover influences at work there and producing an additional nuance in the wide field of jazz, some god, some bad (as EVERYWHERE), but the good added a welcome new facet. But how many "art jazz for art's sake and nothing else" exponents have ridiculed that movement from Day One in a heavy-handed, indiscriminate manner that did not even take note of those nuances. Seems to have conflicted heavily with their acquired attitude to how jazz was supposed to be enjoyed, whereas I'd bet quite a few of the same wisecracks decades ago went all overboard in their appreciation of other rock influences in jazz rock, fusion and whatnot ...

And now jazz as such seems to have arrived in the intensive care unit to an extent that seems to require infusions (including "savvy" marketing gimmicks) by the ones discussed here ... lo and behold ...

So ... ain't it 'bout time you high-brows (you know who you are, and maybe it's not actually you who are extrovert enough to be spurred into immediate reactions to this rant ) pay the forefathers their dues (including in RE-WRITING for yourselves the appreciation of the tradition of jazz!) if you feel the need to start drooling about those new-fangled Leo P's called in to give a "new" lease of life to jazz (which is only "new" to the unaware because they apparently chose to ignore what's been out there again and again (from the honkers to the retros) for decades ...) And don't bother retreating to an evasive line like "if you can't hear the difference" - look at and listen to the essence of the impact as it wants to come across and see where you are from there ...

My rant, my 2c, but I stand by it ...

Edited March 13, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[JSngry]

Let's look towards the future. I'm proposing a new way to bring jazz to dancers and dancers to jazz - make them into the same thing, make the musicians dance while they play, or, if you like, the dancers play while they dance. And not just soul band steps and/or marching band moves, real dance dance.

This is not as radical a proposition as it might first seem. If, as many claim, today's musicians are "playing for themselves" while audiences are either covertly or overtly bemoaning a lack of "dance feel" in these musics, then what better way to solve the dichotomy than having the dancers and the players be the same people?

Genetically, that might seem a tad incestual under current conditions, but it's current conditions that are the problem, shit's already too damn inbred.

[Brad]

It is savvy marketing but not much else, sort of a version of Zelig-ness.  I was going to call it a jazz version of Zelig but that's a little too strong. 

[Big Beat Steve]

29 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Let's look towards the future. I'm proposing a new way to bring jazz to dancers and dancers to jazz - make them into the same thing, make the musicians dance while they play, or, if you like, the dancers play while they dance. And not just soul band steps and/or marching band moves, real dance dance.

This is not as radical a proposition as it might first seem. If, as many claim, today's musicians are "playing for themselves" while audiences are either covertly or overtly bemoaning a lack of "dance feel" in these musics, then what better way to solve the dichotomy than having the dancers and the players be the same people?

Genetically, that might seem a tad incestual under current conditions, but it's current conditions that are the problem, shit's already too damn inbred.

 

See? You weren't one that I was targeting in the first place.

I have long had a feeling for myself that there is jazz for the brain (modern jazz, mostly) and jazz for the guts (R&B etc.) - with some overlaps of course and blurred boundaries. Fine with me as there is a time and place for everything and I am able to enjoy both on their own terms. And even better if you can combine the two (like many musicians managed to in the swing era).

And if this can be combined in today's jazz again - fine. And I read something like this from your previous posts.

It just galls me that there still are those out there who seem to consider themselves part of "those in the decades-long know" ("jazz acedamia"?) who still sneer at jazz that is out to entertain and is gutsy and straightforward enough to have the immediacy to get people up and dancing. If there are those who feel they prefer their jazz in a more sedate, concert-like atmosphere of aloof, earnest, sophisticated appreciation throughout - fine, there is a place and time (and market) for this too, but this is not all and certainly not the beginning and end of jazz as it "ought" to be enjoyed.

And it also appears to me that given a certain awareness of some of the more immediately accessible facets of jazz present even AFTER the spread and development of "modern jazz" after WWII quite a bit of what Leo P. does, for example, is a case of "nothing that much new under the sun".  More power to him if he can blow off the cobwebs in a few corners of the jazz world as he IS taking things a step further but OTOH he definitely is not breaking as much new ground as some might make it out to be in today's media - or so it seems to me anyway ...

[clifford_thornton]

4 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

I'd pay to see video of Mingus punching his face in.

Other than that, I'm out.

more like "Gunslinging Turd," right?

[JSngry]

I tell you, there's a new future in front of us if we choose to.

[catesta]

I've now watched a few videos of this guy and already see that his moves are repetitive and it's all very boring.

I'll stick to future things that actually matter to me. It's certainly not these two.

[JSngry]

Two popheads doing that now is just cute. A redefinition of what the brain and body can do in a more full coordination is inevitable, just hope the enemy doesn’t get there first again, because they will, if we let them.

 

[JSngry]

More dancers, please. Not just more "dancing", but more dancers, like, built into the music. If this keeps happening, eventually you will have a popjazz ballet, and if the dancing and music both drive each other, I don't see how that's a bad thing, really.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't see the appeal to this.

OTOH, anybody who thinks that this is a thing to do...the earth is overpopulated, so don't expect me to worry about this.

Just stop trying to be so "jazz" and get on with the business of going forward. One is interesting, the other can go die off a cliff as far as I'm concerned.

People make choices, right?

[JSngry]

 

[Brad]

My initial reaction when I saw your last few postings was that “he’s obsessed.”

I just watched some of the videos you posted and maybe it’s your way of saying, see, this is what’s going on in some quarters.  However, I could be totally wrong and am probably am. 

My other reaction is, what, is she a joke or just engaging in some bad self promotion. That spot from the gym is just about her and her moves, in my opinion, and her “assets” and that video of Some of My Favorite Things??? Get real. What a joke. A travesty.

Can you imagine Coleman Hawkins or ____ (pick your own) doing some of the moves she’s doing? 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Brad

[Scott Dolan]

I can’t wait to tune in tomorrow to see how much worse this lady will be shit upon! 

She’s obviously having fun and doing what she likes. 

So why not just shut the fuck up, seven pages later, and let her do her thing? 

[Quasimado]

10 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I can’t wait to tune in tomorrow to see how much worse this lady will be shit upon! 

She’s obviously having fun and doing what she likes. 

So why not just shut the fuck up, seven pages later, and let her do her thing? 

BUT, BUT ... she likes bebop ... and ...  she's got no ANGST!!!

 

[JSngry]

15 hours ago, Brad said:

Can you imagine Coleman Hawkins or ____ (pick your own) doing some of the moves she’s doing? 

Let's start counting the reasons why that comparison is totally meaningless and see what we run out of first, reasons, or numbers.

[Scott Dolan]

14 minutes ago, Quasimado said:

BUT, BUT ... she likes bebop ... and ...  she's got no ANGST!!!

 

Yeah, man. She just doesn’t feel it, you know. She plays notes, right? But she doesn’t play them based on my own personal set of rules, you know? So I’m going to bag on her and try like hell to not make it come across as sexist in anyway, you dig? 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Scott Dolan

[Brad]

19 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Let's start counting the reasons why that comparison is totally meaningless and see what we run out of first, reasons, or numbers.

Okay, let's.  Post away. 

[JSngry]

I like what she's doing with dance at least as much as I don't care at all for how she plays. When I talk about the possibilities of fusing dance and playing, I'm quite serious, and I hope she pushes that. That could get pretty interesting, seriously. But if all she does is play, then...have fun with that, I guess.

Between HBCU marching bands and some of the funk bands that came out of that tradition, it's not like playing while dancing (and vice-versa) doesn't have a proven history of viability. Now let's see what else can be done.

For that matter:

Those are some baaaad motherfuckers right there.

[Brad]

I suppose you have a valid point although the dancing is the part that I like the least but I do agree it has some potential.  After all, jazz was dance-able and supposed to be so in its early history.  I re-watched that gym one and can see that her moves may be trying to put jazz in dance steps, if that makes any sense.  She's trying different ways of expression so I have to give her credit for that.

[Mark Stryker]

4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I like what she's doing with dance at least as much as I don't care at all for how she plays. When I talk about the possibilities of fusing dance and playing, I'm quite serious, and I hope she pushes that. That could get pretty interesting, seriously. But if all she does is play, then...have fun with that, I guess.

Between HBCU marching bands and some of the funk bands that came out of that tradition, it's not like playing while dancing (and vice-versa) doesn't have a proven history of viability. Now let's see what else can be done.

For that matter:

Those are some baaaad motherfuckers right there.

Thanks for this clip, Totally new to me. Interesting topic. Some shit to think about -- and to feel.

[JSngry]

And it doesn't have to be either/or, if players start dancing in a real, thoughtfully choreographical way, it doesn't mean that everybody has to start doing that, or that the audience for sitting and listening music is rong or anything like that. I just means that there would be yet another option for expression and receiving. More options.

[JSngry]

 

[jlhoots]

That actually was kind of fun.

[JSngry]

It, or something like it, should be incorporated into a Hollywood Musical, or whatever they make these days.

And seriously, let's see them develop it out past just the two of them.

[Scott Dolan]

I tried. I really, honestly did.