The Oldies

[Kalo]

Only a matter of time before the "New Wave" is the new "Oldies".

If you're ever in Dallas, liste to The Flashback Cafe on KDGE and know that it already is.

I have to admit that it's been a bit disturbing to me that the "New Wave" hits of the early '80s, basically the biggest hits of my college years (though not even close to what I was listening to myself in those days), have become part of the rotation of "Classic Hits" radio. I have no doubt that there is some insidious demographic formula at work that adds the chart hits of a particular year to the rotation when they have reached, say, 20 years of age.

Funny thing is, I would never voluntarily listen to these stations myself, but find myself being compelled to listen to them by the fiat of my younger, 20-something co-workers.

I'm pretty sure that the "Oldies" format and the "Classic Hits" format are different. To me, "Oldies" is '50s to '60s stuff. "Classic Hits" is the late '60s through the '70s (and now into the early-to-mid '80s -- does anyone else find it disconcerting to hear the Police, Talking Heads, the Clash, and even U2 on these stations?). I'm also sure that both formats suck, being based on chart performance of the song in its day, rather than whether the particular tune has achieved any esthetic esteem in the years since. Thus, you hear the same three Marvin Gaye tracks over and over, rather than any of the excellent but lower-charting numbers he also recorded.

I, for one, could live without ever hearing Gary Puckett and the Union Gap's "Lady Willpower" ever again, a big hit in its day and an esthetic abortion for evermore.

The worst crime of these radio formats, as some have alluded to above, is their ignoring, or ghettoizing ("Motown Mondays") of black music. I often refer to the "Classic Hits" formula as "white cock-rock plus Hendrix ( and Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy on rare occasions)." Though any single Aretha track dwarfs the musical achievements of most anyone else from the era (and by the way, where's Al Green, perhaps the finest singles artist of the '70s?), the only women you'll hear on these stations are Heart and the gals from Fleetwood Mac. And another thing, why do you hear more second-raters like Grand Funk Railroad, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Foreigner, Boston, etc. on these stations than you do even recognized ICONS of the music such as the Beatles and the Rolling Stones? Again, I fear, it's because of the chart rankings of the day, which bear little or no relevance to the later judgements of time.

A plague on both their formats.

[Kalo]

To be positive, I suggest a "Classic Artists" format rather than a "Classic Hits" or "Oldies" format.

That would really be something.

[JSngry]

Oldies staions and the devolving format might be god's way of telling us that it's time to let it all go and move the hell on.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Surely there are/were black oldies stations? Last time I was in Newark (a decade ago, I'll admit) there was a NYC station - don't ask which - that was on everywhere and was mostly playing oldies - proper oldies - Jerry Butler, Sam Cooke, Jimbo, Don Covay, Ree, Denise LaSalle, Green, Stax, Motown etc etc.

MG

PS As I recollect, Roberta Flack was a DJ on it, doing smooth soul stuff. Most appropriate, I thought.

Edited October 1, 2006 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[danasgoodstuff]

I've certasinly heard Cream, Yardbirds and Hendrix about as much on oldies as I remember hearing them on air back in the day, still too little and only the obvious cuts. And no shortage of Motown either in the two weeks my Studebaker's radio has worked out of the last year and a half (What else than oldies are you gonna play on an AM radio?). But I haven't listened enough to notice any change in formnat, I always wish they'd play more doo wop...

[BruceH]

When I've had a chance to listen to oldies radio stations some things appears to me to be missing. Maybe it's just a perception issue with me but those things(artists)that appear to be MIA are(1)Motown (2)British "invasion"artists save for the Beatles(more specifically Stones,Yardbirds and the Animals as opposed to Brit bubblegum dreck).(3)Artists such as James Brown,Sam Cooke and the Impressions.(4)Later 60's artists such as Hendrix and the Cream.

One has to wonder about a format that values the Archies over Marvin Gaye. Maybe it's just me but I would appreciate hearing from someone who has spent anytime listening to one of these radio stations especially recently but any and all comments would be appreciated.

I think you're probably right, and I think it sucks.

[BruceH]

Only a matter of time before the "New Wave" is the new "Oldies".

If you're ever in Dallas, liste to The Flashback Cafe on KDGE and know that it already is.

I have to admit that it's been a bit disturbing to me that the "New Wave" hits of the early '80s, basically the biggest hits of my college years (though not even close to what I was listening to myself in those days), have become part of the rotation of "Classic Hits" radio. I have no doubt that there is some insidious demographic formula at work that adds the chart hits of a particular year to the rotation when they have reached, say, 20 years of age.

Funny thing is, I would never voluntarily listen to these stations myself, but find myself being compelled to listen to them by the fiat of my younger, 20-something co-workers.

I'm pretty sure that the "Oldies" format and the "Classic Hits" format are different. To me, "Oldies" is '50s to '60s stuff. "Classic Hits" is the late '60s through the '70s (and now into the early-to-mid '80s -- does anyone else find it disconcerting to hear the Police, Talking Heads, the Clash, and even U2 on these stations?). I'm also sure that both formats suck, being based on chart performance of the song in its day, rather than whether the particular tune has achieved any esthetic esteem in the years since. Thus, you hear the same three Marvin Gaye tracks over and over, rather than any of the excellent but lower-charting numbers he also recorded.

I, for one, could live without ever hearing Gary Puckett and the Union Gap's "Lady Willpower" ever again, a big hit in its day and an esthetic abortion for evermore.

The worst crime of these radio formats, as some have alluded to above, is their ignoring, or ghettoizing ("Motown Mondays") of black music. I often refer to the "Classic Hits" formula as "white cock-rock plus Hendrix ( and Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy on rare occasions)." Though any single Aretha track dwarfs the musical achievements of most anyone else from the era (and by the way, where's Al Green, perhaps the finest singles artist of the '70s?), the only women you'll hear on these stations are Heart and the gals from Fleetwood Mac. And another thing, why do you hear more second-raters like Grand Funk Railroad, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Foreigner, Boston, etc. on these stations than you do even recognized ICONS of the music such as the Beatles and the Rolling Stones? Again, I fear, it's because of the chart rankings of the day, which bear little or no relevance to the later judgements of time.

A plague on both their formats.

Right on!

(And congratulations, you just caused me to vomit several times.)

[Dan Gould]

The worst crime of these radio formats, as some have alluded to above, is their ignoring, or ghettoizing ("Motown Mondays") of black music.

Sorry, but this is just plain stupid.

Do you think that the station that promotes "Motown Mondays" doesn't play Motown any other time?

None of these stations "ignore" black music - people are just pissed that they don't play a wider variety than the a few "tried and true" hits. Well, welcome to the modern radio industry.

[Kalo]

The worst crime of these radio formats, as some have alluded to above, is their ignoring, or ghettoizing ("Motown Mondays") of black music.

Sorry, but this is just plain stupid.

Do you think that the station that promotes "Motown Mondays" doesn't play Motown any other time?

None of these stations "ignore" black music - people are just pissed that they don't play a wider variety than the a few "tried and true" hits. Well, welcome to the modern radio industry.

To be clearer than I was in my first post: I don't have personal experience of "Motown Mondays" here in Boston, and maybe it's a local thing, but the "Classic Rock" radio stations here don't play black music at all, just crappy '70s BTO/Foreigner/Boston type stuff.

The Oldies stations do play the same old Motown hits over and over. Luckily, we have several college stations in Boston that will play obscure R&B tunes, especially the MIT station, god bless 'em.

[Dan Gould]

To be clearer than I was in my first post: I don't have personal experience of "Motown Mondays" here in Boston, and maybe it's a local thing, but the "Classic Rock" radio stations here don't play black music at all, just crappy '70s BTO/Foreigner/Boston type stuff.

That's probably because those bands are what programmers consider "classic rock" in addition to the Stones, Who, Led Zep, etc.

Please tell me, aside from Hendrix, what black artists are missing from "classic rock" programming, because I thought that between Hendrix and Living Colour, there weren't any black artists involved in rock.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Dan Gould

[chris olivarez]

To be clearer than I was in my first post: I don't have personal experience of "Motown Mondays" here in Boston, and maybe it's a local thing, but the "Classic Rock" radio stations here don't play black music at all, just crappy '70s BTO/Foreigner/Boston type stuff.

That's probably because those bands are what programmers consider "classic rock" in addition to the Stones, Who, Led Zep, etc.

Please tell me, aside from Hendrix, what black artists are missing from "classic rock" programming, because I thought that between Hendrix and Living Colour, there weren't any black artists involved in rock.

That's valid up to a point if you want to narrowly define it. However look at the Rock N Roll hall of fame and the Black representation there. Admittedly there's more R n B,Soul etc there but they are there. It's just unfortunate that oldies radio isn't that inclusive but like you said a lot of that is on the doorstep of big corporate radio.

[Dan Gould]

To be clearer than I was in my first post: I don't have personal experience of "Motown Mondays" here in Boston, and maybe it's a local thing, but the "Classic Rock" radio stations here don't play black music at all, just crappy '70s BTO/Foreigner/Boston type stuff.

That's probably because those bands are what programmers consider "classic rock" in addition to the Stones, Who, Led Zep, etc.

Please tell me, aside from Hendrix, what black artists are missing from "classic rock" programming, because I thought that between Hendrix and Living Colour, there weren't any black artists involved in rock.

That's valid up to a point if you want to narrowly define it. However look at the Rock N Roll hall of fame and the Black representation there. Admittedly there's more R n B,Soul etc there but they are there. It's just unfortunate that oldies radio isn't that inclusive but like you said a lot of that is on the doorstep of big corporate radio.

Here's the thing:

"Classic Rock" was never defined as the "roots" of rock n roll, where you do find all of the great black artists, but as rock's "glory days" of the 60s and 70s, distinct from rock's "early days" which was once covered by "oldies" formats, and is virtually exclusively white, outside of Hendrix.

[BERIGAN]

Well, things sure have gotten better since the last time this thread was brought back to life!

[Shawn]

LOL

Classic Rock radio (as opposed to Oldies) seems to have about 250 songs to choose from, the only 250 songs recorded during the late 60's/early 70's evidently. So if you do get lucky enough to hear a band you like, it's going to be the one song you're tired of. Picking an album track must be immediate cause for termination, because only singles really exist in this "other world".

It's one of the reasons why I haven't listened to the radio since the early 90's.

[Werf]

http://www.wgvu.org/realoldies/ First all oldies public radio station.

[clifford_thornton]

Austin doesn't even have a decent classic rock station. It's annoying.

[Brad]

I have XM in my car and listen to (on a semi frequent basis) classic vinyl (Ch 46). They pay a lot of what you expect and repeat a lot of the same things, particularly Led Zeppelin. You don't often hear the obscure groups. Some of the hosts aren't bad like Carol Miller and Dennis Elses (sp?) of the old WNEW FM in New York.

[Shawn]

Austin doesn't even have a decent classic rock station. It's annoying.

One night I was flipping stations in the car and one of the local stations played "Into The Void" by Black Sabbath...I almost fainted dead away.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

http://www.wgvu.org/realoldies/ First all oldies public radio station.

I took a look at the playlist. It's not what I'd listen to, but that's a pretty interesting oldies playlist, in the sense of someone having given the thing a bit of thought. I've highlighted some of what seem to me to be pretty unlikely picks.

Here's the list for this morning.

Mona Lisa : Nat King Cole

Son-In-Law : Blossoms

Can't You Hear My Heartbeat : Herman's Hermits

Go Now! : Moody Blues

Willow Weep For Me : Chad & Jeremy

Shadows In the Night : Quests

Born On The Bayou : Creedence Clearwater Revival

Elenore : Turtles

I Feel Fine : Beatles

To Susan On The West Coast Waiting : Donovan

Love Her Madly : Doors

At the Hop : Danny and The Juniors

Rumble : Link Wray & His Ray Men

Soldier Boy : Shirelles

Go Steady With Me : Glenn Mooney

Here In My Heart : Al Martino

Woman : Peter & Gordon

Crying In the Chapel : Elvis Presley With The Jordanaires

Start Movin' (In My Direction) : Sal Mineo

The Cisco Kid : War

Trapped By A Thing Called Love : Denise LaSalle

Hooked On A Feeling : B.J. Thomas

Let It Be Me : Butler, Jerry & Betty Everett

Mina Bird : String-A-Longs

Girl I Love, The (1965) : Kingtones

It Must Be Him : Vikki Carr

Big Girls Don't Cry : 4 Seasons

Here Comes My Baby : Tremeloes

Come and Give Your Love To Me : New Colony Six

If I Were A Carpenter : Four Tops

Gypsy Woman : Brian Hyland

I'm Alive : Hollies

Mr. Tambourine Man : Bob Dylan

Oh, Pretty Woman : Orbison, Roy

The Lion Sleeps Tonight : Tokens

The Way Of A Clown : Teddy Randazzo

In The Year 2525 (Exordium & Terminus) : Zager & Evans

She's Not Just Another Woman : 8th Day

You Can't Sit Down : Dovells

We Can Work It Out : Beatles

I've Been Loving You Too Long (To Stop Now) : Otis Redding

Do You Understand Me : JuJus

Pretty Girls Everywhere - (1958) : Eugene Church & The Fellows

Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye : Casinos

Da Doo Ron Ron : Crystals

Behind The Door : Cher

Soolaimon : Neil Diamond

Johnny B. Goode : Chuck Berry

Blue Dawn : Dave and the Shadows

In The Still Of The Nite : Five Satins

Here Comes Big Ed : Wildwoods

I Got You (I Feel Good) : James Brown

Feelin Groovy ( 59Th Street Bridge Song ) : Harpers Bizarre

Peanuts : Little Joe & The Thrillers

Whole Lotta Loving : Fats Domino

Wildflower : Skylark

Do You Love Me : Contours

I'll Never Fall In Love Again : Dionne Warwick

Hey Tonight : Creedence Clearwater Revival

Open Up Your Door : Richard & The Young Lions

Runaway Child, Running Wild : Temptations

Rubber Ball : Bobby Vee

Under The Boardwalk : Drifters

Didn't Want To Have To Do It : Lovin' Spoonful

Ten Commandments Of Love : Harvey And The Moonglows

Baby, Now That I've Found You : Foundations

On The Rebound : Floyd Cramer

These Eyes : Guess Who

Pop Hates The Beatles : Allan Sherman

Early In The Morning : Bobby Darin

I Should Have Known Better : Beatles

Ain't No Woman (Like The One I've Got) : Four Tops

A Taste Of Honey : Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass

I Was The One : Elvis Presley

Ring Of Fire : Johnny Cash

Come On Down To My Boat : Every Mother's Son

Along Comes Mary : Association

As Tears Go By : Rolling Stones, The

You Got To Me : Neil Diamond

Only The Lonely : Orbison, Roy

Surf Jam : Beach Boys

Bridge Over Troubled Water : Simon & Garfunkel

Sugar Daddy : Jackson 5

Heartbeat : Buddy Holly

Who'll Stop The Rain : Creedence Clearwater Revival

The Ballad Of John And Yoko : Beatles

White Sport Coat (And A Pink Carnation) : Marty Robbins

Grazing In The Grass : Hugh Masekela

Everyone's Gone to the Moon : Jonathan King

Working In The Coalmine : Lee Dorsey

Look To Your Soul : Johnny Rivers

Any Day Now (My Wild Beautiful Bird) : Chuck Jackson

Don't Sleep In The Subway : Petula Clark

O-o-h Child : Five Stairsteps

Son-Of-A Preacher Man : Dusty Springfield

You Can't Judge a Book By Its Cover : Bo Diddley

For What It's Worth : Buffalo Springfield

Heartbreak Hotel : Stan Freberg

Utopia : Frank Gari

The Letter : Box Tops

Yummy, Yummy, Yummy : Ohio Express

Don't Come Around (1961) : Kingtones

The Crying Game : Brenda Lee

Solitary Man : Neil Diamond

What's New Pussycat : Tom Jones

Hello Heartache, Goodbye Love : Little Peggy March

Jackson : Nancy Sinatra

Get Ready : Temptations

His Latest Flame : Elvis Presley

Hang On Sloopy : Ramsey Lewis Trio

Gloria : Shadows of Knight

What's Going On : Marvin Gaye

(Get Your Kicks On) Route 66 : Nat King Cole

Somethin' Else : Eddie Cochran

We Ain't Got Time : New Era

I Say A Little Prayer : Dionne Warwick

Blue Bayou : Orbison, Roy

Farmer John : Premiers

Poor Little Fool : Ricky Nelson

Signs : Five Man Electrical Band

When Something Is Wrong With My Baby : Sam & Dave

American Pie : Don McLean

Rock & Roll Music : Chuck Berry

Look Here Comes The Sun : Sunshine Company

Everybody Knows (I Still Love You) : Dave Clark Five

Undun : The Guess Who

Ramrod : Duane Eddy

From Me To You : Beatles

Lonely Teardrops : Jackie Wilson

I'll Never Need More Than This : Ike & Tina Turner

Tallahassee Lassie : Freddy Cannon

White Silver Sands : Don Rondo

Proud Mary : Creedence Clearwater Revival

Forget Him : Bobby Rydell

Eres Tu (Touch The Wind) : Mocedades

There! I've Said It Again : Bobby Vinton

Chapel Of Love : Dixie Cups

Tucumcari : Jimmie Rodgers

Mr. Bass Man : Johnny Cymbal

Funky Broadway : Wilson Pickett

Raindrops : Dee Clark

Paint It Black : Rolling Stones, The

It's All Over Now, Baby Blue : Byrds

Walking The Dog : Rufus Thomas

Help Me Rhonda (LP Version) : Beach Boys

On The Rebound : Floyd Cramer but TWICE?

Mr. Blue : Fleetwoods

Zip Code : Five Americans

3000 Miles : Brian Hyland

Do You Know The Way To San Jose : Dionne Warwick

Just One Look : Doris Troy

Yes, Tonight, Josephine : Johnnie Ray

Come Saturday Morning : Sandpipers

Baby Baby Don't Cry : Smokey Robinson & The Miracles

Surface World : Jades

I'm Into Something Good : Herman's Hermits

With All My Heart : Jodie Sands

If You Don't Know Me By Now : Harlod Melvin & The Bluenotes

Wedding Bell Blues : 5th Dimension

Would You Lay With Me (In A Field Of Stone) : Tanya Tucker

Strawberry Shortcake : Jay & the Techniques

Want Ads : Honey Cone

I Got Rhythm : Happenings

We Can Work It Out : Stevie Wonder

If Not For You : Olivia Newton-John

My Boyfriend's Back : Angels

To Be Young : Dimensions

Don't Be Cruel : Elvis Presley

Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Ole Oak Tree : Tony Orlando & Dawn

You Wouldn't Listen : Ides Of March

Cherish : Association

By The Time I Get To Phoenix : Glen Campbell

I Call Your Name : Mamas & The Papas

Reach Out, I'll Be There : Four Tops

Lollipop : Chordettes

Conquistador : Procol Harum

Roll Over Beethoven : Chuck Berry

Pleasant Valley Sunday (Single Version) : Monkees

You Can't Judge a Book By Its Cover : Bo Diddley TWICE!!!

Eleanor Rigby : Beatles

Ten Guitars (1971) : Kingtones

Little Arrows : Leapy Lee

Jumpin' Jack Flash : Rolling Stones, The

A Beautiful Morning : Rascals

Look In Your Eyes : Scott McKenzie

Running Scared : Roy Orbison

You Send Me : Sam Cooke

Quiet Village : Martin Denny

Sweet Cherry Wine : Tommy James and the Shondells

I Know A Place : Petula Clark

I Don't Want To See You Again : Peter & Gordon

98.6 : Keith

Wonderful! Wonderful! : Johnny Mathis

All I Have To Do Is Dream : Richard Chamberlain

Those Lazy-hazy-crazy Days of Summer : Nat King Cole

Maybe I Know : Lesley Gore

Nothing I Can Do : Sheffields

Love Is Here and Now You're Gone : Supremes

Out & About : Boyce & Hart

Ma Belle Amie : Tee Set

Bad Moon Rising : Creedence Clearwater Revival

Heart Of Gold : Neil Young

My Home Town : Paul Anka

It's Not Unusual : Tom Jones

Tighter, Tighter : Alive & Kicking

Dandy : Herman's Hermits

Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind? : Lovin' Spoonful

Never My Love : Association

Mais Que Nada : Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66-'86

Abilene : George Hamilton IV

Save Your Heart For Me : Gary Lewis And The Playboys

I Want To Be Wanted : Brenda Lee

That's All Right : Elvis Presley

She's Not There : Zombies

Work With Me Annie : Hank Ballard & the Midnighters

Emerald City : Seekers

My Sweet Lord : George Harrison

Silence Is Golden : Tremeloes

Bumble Bee : LaVern Baker

Let Me Belong To You : Brian Hyland

Hey Joe : Soulbenders

Jingle Bell Rock : Bobby Rydell & Chubby Checker

Sunny : Bobby Hebb

One : Three Dog Night

Blue On Blue : Bobby Vinton

The Loco-Motion : Little Eva

MG