BFT 167 Discussion Thread

[Hardbopjazz]

BFT for February is posted at Thom's site. It is BFT167. Right now it is at the bottom of the list. There are 13 tracks.

http://thomkeith.net/index.php/blindfold-tests/

[Hot Ptah]

This is a very nice Blindfold Test, very enjoyable. As usual, I am not good at all at identifying anything.

 

3. This sounds like a live Charlie Parker recording of rather poor sound quality. Is this one of the Dean Benedetti recordings? I have never heard them. Also, in the 1970s I had a Prestige vinyl two-fer of Charlie Parker, which had live recordings of roughly this recording quality.

6. That is either Houston Person or the world's best imitator of Houston Person. I do not know what album this is.

8. I actually have and know this album! It is Buster Williams--Something More. This song is Deception. On this album, Buster is joined by trumpeter Shunzo Ohno, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, and Al Foster.

11. Another album I have and know! It is Louis Smith--Just Friends. The song is Oleo, Louis is joined by George Coleman and Harold Mabern on this album.

12. A Charlie Parker composition, Steeplechase, I think. I don't know who is playing here.

[Hardbopjazz]

43 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

This is a very nice Blindfold Test, very enjoyable. As usual, I am not good at all at identifying anything.

 

3. This sounds like a live Charlie Parker recording of rather poor sound quality. Is this one of the Dean Benedetti recordings? I have never heard them. Also, in the 1970s I had a Prestige vinyl two-fer of Charlie Parker, which had live recordings of roughly this recording quality. No it isn't Bird, but everyone here would know the horn player. 

6. That is either Houston Person or the world's best imitator of Houston Person. I do not know what album this is.  Yes, it is Houston Person. 

8. I actually have and know this album! It is Buster Williams--Something More. This song is Deception. On this album, Buster is joined by trumpeter Shunzo Ohno, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, and Al Foster.  Correct.

11. Another album I have and know! It is Louis Smith--Just Friends. The song is Oleo, Louis is joined by George Coleman and Harold Mabern on this album. Yes again.

12. A Charlie Parker composition, Steeplechase, I think. I don't know who is playing here.

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Hardbopjazz

[Hardbopjazz]

3 minutes ago, CardinalJazzFan said:

As usual these days, I am very busy at work. I will discuss a few tracks at a time, as I am able to listen to each several times.

Track 1. Is this Vincent Herring? It is an exciting live track. The pianist has studied McCoy Tyner and has absorbed his style. It sounds like a more recent recording, maybe in the 2000-2010 period. Not Herring or Tyner. 

Track 2. Is this Rahsaan Roland Kirk? If so, it must be a live album which I do not have. The circular breathing at the end of the track reminded me of Kirk. This is a saxophone player who came after Coltrane, as he once in a while plays a lick which would not have been possible without a knowledge of Coltrane. But this saxophonist plays for the maximum feeling, and does not try to play a lot of notes to attain technical goals. No Kirk. 

The electric pianist, guitarist and electric bassist reminds me of Stan Getz's band in the late 1970s, when he had Andy Laverne and Chuck Loeb with him. This is a very imaginative guitar solo within this style. I like the guitarist's approach very much, whoever he may be.

Track 3. This is one of those historical recordings which sounds like it was recorded from a portable device in someone's lap. I can't hear any of the instruments very well at all, except for the saxophonist, who is very familiar. I cannot place the saxophonist, however. It is like having something on the tip of your tongue. This one will surprise everyone.  The sax player is well known.

Track 4.  That is really excellent guitar playing. It is on the level of someone like Joe Pass. I do not know who it is. This is a great track. It is not Joe Pass.

Track 5. Is this a one man band, one person playing everything on electronic keyboards? The drums sound very electronic. The lead instrument is not quite real sounding, as if it is an electronically programmed sound. If that is what it is, this is done well. The track has a lilting swing to it, and it sounds pretty natural, like it could be a small group playing together. It is an appealing tune. I do not know who performs in this area of musical expression. You're on the right path.

That is all for now. More to come later.

 

[Hardbopjazz]

34 minutes ago, CardinalJazzFan said:

Here are a few more.

Track 6.   "Day Dream" by Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn, featuring a big tone tenor saxophonist with a lot of soul. I am going to guess Houston Person. I do not know who the other musicians are. This is a nice version of the song. 

Correct  it was also figured out. I wonder if any other musicians will be figured out by someone?

Track 7.  A vocalist singing a song with lyrics that verge on the pessimistic at times.  I would be surprised if I have heard this vocalist before. I do not seem to recognize him. I like this recording. I think it is convincingly performed. You know who this is 😀

 

Quote

Track 8. This is some type of tribute to the Miles Davis/Wayne Shorter/Herbie Hancock/Ron Carter/Tony Williams acoustic quintet of the 1960s. I know that there have been different tribute bands to that quintet, such as one in the 1990s with Wallace Roney substituting for Miles, playing with the other four.

The trumpet player does not have Miles' tone or thought patterns for improvisation, but sometimes sounds here like he is imitating Miles' playing from the years of that quintet.

The bass player is quite good, but does not sound like Ron Carter. He sounds like a top notch bassist. I do not know who it is.

The tenor saxophonist, pianist, and drummer, could actually be Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock and Tony Williams. They sound very close to the originals. They are either those three musicians, or else they are musicians who have really studied their styles and can play very close to the original musicians.

I like this recording very much. This was answered already 

More later.

Thanks for your replies. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Hardbopjazz

[Hot Ptah]

I think I have found Track 12. I know that the song is Scrapple from the Apple, after playing my Complete Savoy and Dial Recordings set of Charlie Parker. I recognize Dexter Gordon as one of the soloists. His use of quotes tipped me off. I was stuck there, though.

I saw Dexter Gordon and Johnny Griffin together, in a blistering, very exciting performance at the 1978 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival. So I know that Dexter liked to jam with other tenor saxophonists.

The song timing, 21:11, allowed me to do some internet searching. I think that Track 12 is from the following. If so, thank you so much for introducing me to this recording, which I had never heard of:

Six Tenor Giants (Webster, Ervin, Rollins, Gordon a.o.)
Sportspalast, Berlin

October 29, 1965 (b) (12 items; TT = 74:26)

Sportspalast, Berlin

Source/Quality: TV (B+)

Ben Webster (ts); Don Byas (ts); Milton "Brew" Moore (ts); Booker Ervin (ts); Sonny Rollins (ts); Dexter Gordon (ts); Kenny Drew (p); Niels-Henning Oersted Pedersen (b); Alan Dawson (d); Goetz Kronburger (ann)

1	Introduction (Kronburger, Webster)	2:14
2	How Long Has This Been Going On? (G. Gershwin-I. Gershwin)	6:43
	Webster + rhythm section
3	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:17
4	I Remember Clifford (B. Golson)	7:14
	Byas + rhythm section
5	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:03
6	Jumpin' with Symphony Sid (L. Young)	4:54
	Moore + rhythm section
7	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:21
8	Blues for You (B. Ervin)	27:27
	Ervin + rhythm section
9	Introduction (Kronburger)	1:08
10	St. Thomas (S. Rollins)	2:28
	Rollins + rhythm section
11	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:26
12	Scrapple from the Apple (C. Parker) (inc)	21:11
	Ervin, Rollins, Gordon + rhythm section

Recorded at the Berliner Jazztage 1965 and broadcast by SWF-TV.

[Hardbopjazz]

5 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

I think I have found Track 12. I know that the song is Scrapple from the Apple, after playing my Complete Savoy and Dial Recordings set of Charlie Parker. I recognize Dexter Gordon as one of the soloists. His use of quotes tipped me off. I was stuck there, though.

I saw Dexter Gordon and Johnny Griffin together, in a blistering, very exciting performance at the 1978 Ann Arbor Jazz Festival. So I know that Dexter liked to jam with other tenor saxophonists.

The song timing, 21:11, allowed me to do some internet searching. I think that Track 12 is from the following. If so, thank you so much for introducing me to this recording, which I had never heard of:

Six Tenor Giants (Webster, Ervin, Rollins, Gordon a.o.)
Sportspalast, Berlin

October 29, 1965 (b) (12 items; TT = 74:26)

Sportspalast, Berlin

Source/Quality: TV (B+)

Ben Webster (ts); Don Byas (ts); Milton "Brew" Moore (ts); Booker Ervin (ts); Sonny Rollins (ts); Dexter Gordon (ts); Kenny Drew (p); Niels-Henning Oersted Pedersen (b); Alan Dawson (d); Goetz Kronburger (ann)

1	Introduction (Kronburger, Webster)	2:14
2	How Long Has This Been Going On? (G. Gershwin-I. Gershwin)	6:43
	Webster + rhythm section
3	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:17
4	I Remember Clifford (B. Golson)	7:14
	Byas + rhythm section
5	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:03
6	Jumpin' with Symphony Sid (L. Young)	4:54
	Moore + rhythm section
7	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:21
8	Blues for You (B. Ervin)	27:27
	Ervin + rhythm section
9	Introduction (Kronburger)	1:08
10	St. Thomas (S. Rollins)	2:28
	Rollins + rhythm section
11	Introduction (Kronburger)	0:26
12	Scrapple from the Apple (C. Parker) (inc)	21:11
	Ervin, Rollins, Gordon + rhythm section

Recorded at the Berliner Jazztage 1965 and broadcast by SWF-TV.

Correct. 

[tkeith]

 

BFT 167

 

Track 1 - Listening on crappy phones, but the sound seems a bit thin, but also like an early 90s (or later) recording. Drummer likes him/her some Tony (could it be Cindy?). Alto player seems to have listened to a lot of later Art Pepper (in a good way). Nothing jumping out about the piano player, but seems out of that John Hicks/Joe Bonner grouping, though I don't believe it is either of them. A touch of Harold Mabern in there, as well. Good, straight ahead Jazz, but not a lot of lasting impressions. Maybe Craig Handy?

 

Track 2 - Newk! Not sure what the recording is, very 70s feel to it. My guess is pre-1975. Song is familiar, but I can't put a name to it. Man, this guy is so f***ing musical. Feeling more certain about the era -- the other players are just not to his level (few are, but after the Cherry band, that was never more apparent). Sonny is a baaaaaad man! Filthy!

 

Track 3 - Sounds like Charlie, from Kansas City, though from what, I cannot hazard a guess. Can't really make out the melody.

 

Track 4 - A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square, my late uncle's favorite song.

 

Track 5 - I kid you not, this makes me hostiley suicidal. I recognize that is an overreaction, but it IS the reaction.

 

Track 6 - Off the bat, I was thinking Buddy Tate, but that's wrong. No idea who the band is, but the player is a survivor. Band seems a bit more common than the lead voice. Brass voices don't seem to be all that interesting as an arrangement; meanwhile, the saxophone voices are knocking me out... that's weird. This tenor voice is familiar, but in an unfamiliar way. My guess is that it's more of a blues player who I am less familiar with. What I can't decide is whether it's his band or he's just being featured.

 

Track 7 - I like the singer's voice, and the use of the bass, mirroring it. The synth strings, on the other hand... well, they're bringing me back to #5. Very upbeat lyrics. Omit the synth strings and this is a winner, but that one item kind of kills it for me.

 

Track 8 - Late 70s/Early 80s feel. Sort of out of that Woody Shaw school. Most certainly not Woody, though. Drums seem kind of detached, not sure if it's the mix or just not clicking. Seems busier than it needs to be, but nobody else seems to be paying attention to what's happening. Busy, without being tuned in. If it's not Wayne Shorter, it's somebody that owes him a house. Seems like a band trying to be Miles' band (no faulting that), but not quite there.

 

Track 9 - Tenor almost sounds like a young Eddie Harris. Track 10 - Not sure who these guys are, but seems inspired by EH, to my ear. Track 11 - Not sure of the trumpet, but that sure sounds like George Coleman to me. There was a trumpet player from Memphis that had an album with Big George... I forget his name right now. This could be that. Definitely Big George on tenor. Sure sounds like Harold Mabern, too. Can't think of the trumpet player... Louis something.

 

Track 12 - My favorite Bird tune! Scrapple From The Apple. That's Dex on tenor -- unmistakable. And there's Booker Ervin. Wow! Two unmistakable BOSS tenors!!!! Wow! WHAT!!? Sure sounds like Newk to me, on the right! Wow! Finally googled this and arrived at YouTube. Holy SMOKES!

 

Track 13 - Man, the bass player is lost. Seems like a modern pianist, because they seem so out of sync, I'm going to make an odd guess: James Williams? Definitely that vintage. Bassist is just out-to-lunch at times.

 

 

Some pleasing oddities in here!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hardbopjazz]

7 minutes ago, tkeith said:

 

BFT 167

 

Track 1 - Listening on crappy phones, but the sound seems a bit thin, but also like an early 90s (or later) recording. Drummer likes him/her some Tony (could it be Cindy?). Alto player seems to have listened to a lot of later Art Pepper (in a good way). Nothing jumping out about the piano player, but seems out of that John Hicks/Joe Bonner grouping, though I don't believe it is either of them. A touch of Harold Mabern in there, as well. Good, straight ahead Jazz, but not a lot of lasting impressions. Maybe Craig Handy? Not correct.

 

Track 2 - Newk! Not sure what the recording is, very 70s feel to it. My guess is pre-1975. Song is familiar, but I can't put a name to it. Man, this guy is so f***ing musical. Feeling more certain about the era -- the other players are just not to his level (few are, but after the Cherry band, that was never more apparent). Sonny is a baaaaaad man! Filthy! Yes it is Sonny. 

 

Track 3 - Sounds like Charlie, from Kansas City, though from what, I cannot hazard a guess. Can't really make out the melody.

No it is not Charlie Parker. This one will be a major surprise.

Track 4 - A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square, my late uncle's favorite song.

Correct title. 

Track 5 - I kid you not, this makes me hostiley suicidal. I recognize that is an overreaction, but it IS the reaction.

LMAO.

Track 6 - Off the bat, I was thinking Buddy Tate, but that's wrong. No idea who the band is, but the player is a survivor. Band seems a bit more common than the lead voice. Brass voices don't seem to be all that interesting as an arrangement; meanwhile, the saxophone voices are knocking me out... that's weird. This tenor voice is familiar, but in an unfamiliar way. My guess is that it's more of a blues player who I am less familiar with. What I can't decide is whether it's his band or he's just being featured.

The sax player was figured out already. 

Track 7 - I like the singer's voice, and the use of the bass, mirroring it. The synth strings, on the other hand... well, they're bringing me back to #5. Very upbeat lyrics. Omit the synth strings and this is a winner, but that one item kind of kills it for me.

 

Track 8 - Late 70s/Early 80s feel. Sort of out of that Woody Shaw school. Most certainly not Woody, though. Drums seem kind of detached, not sure if it's the mix or just not clicking. Seems busier than it needs to be, but nobody else seems to be paying attention to what's happening. Busy, without being tuned in. If it's not Wayne Shorter, it's somebody that owes him a house. Seems like a band trying to be Miles' band (no faulting that), but not quite there.

Hot Path got this one.

Track 9 - Tenor almost sounds like a young Eddie Harris. Track 10 - Not sure who these guys are, but seems inspired by EH, to my ear. Track 11 - Not sure of the trumpet, but that sure sounds like George Coleman to me. There was a trumpet player from Memphis that had an album with Big George... I forget his name right now. This could be that. Definitely Big George on tenor. Sure sounds like Harold Mabern, too. Can't think of the trumpet player... Louis something.

Track 9 is not George Coleman. I think you mean track 11. 

Track 12 - My favorite Bird tune! Scrapple From The Apple. That's Dex on tenor -- unmistakable. And there's Booker Ervin. Wow! Two unmistakable BOSS tenors!!!! Wow! WHAT!!? Sure sounds like Newk to me, on the right! Wow! Finally googled this and arrived at YouTube. Holy SMOKES!

Yep. This is a great concert. 

Track 13 - Man, the bass player is lost. Seems like a modern pianist, because they seem so out of sync, I'm going to make an odd guess: James Williams? Definitely that vintage. Bassist is just out-to-lunch at times.

Not James Williams,

 

Some pleasing oddities in here!

 

Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hot Ptah]

I have now read Thom Keith's comments. So that is Sonny Rollins on Track 2. I am ashamed that I did not recognize him.

I am not aware of any officially released Sonny Rollins album that contains Track 2. I either have all of his officially albums under his own name, or have heard them often. Track #2 must come from a very intriguing rarity, or from some album that you would not expect to contain a Sonny Rollins cut. I am very curious.

[Hardbopjazz]

56 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

I have now read Thom Keith's comments. So that is Sonny Rollins on Track 2. I am ashamed that I did not recognize him.

I am not aware of any officially released Sonny Rollins album that contains Track 2. I either have all of his officially albums under his own name, or have heard them often. Track #2 must come from a very intriguing rarity, or from some album that you would not expect to contain a Sonny Rollins cut. I am very curious.

It's an unissued Rollins' original. It isn't on any of his officially release albums. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Hardbopjazz

[Hardbopjazz]

41 minutes ago, CardinalJazzFan said:

I am jumping around on the remaining tracks, fitting them in between a lot of work at my office.

Track 13 is such a fine track. I love both the pianist and bassist. This is top level playing. I am not able to identify them. The bassist sounds like a master who came up in the 1950s or 1960s. He has that combination of technique and sound that some younger bassists do not have, even if they are technically good. I am really interested in finding out who this is.

My wild guess is John Hicks and Ray Drummond, but I don't think that is correct.

It is neither of those. 

[Hot Ptah]

Having read the comments. I have a rare disagreement with Thom Keith. I really like the bass player on Track 13. He reminds me of Buster Williams.

i keep thinking that I know the very fine pianist on Track 13, and that I may have this album! But I just can’t place him or her. It’s a really nice track. I will want to get this album.

[Hardbopjazz]

22 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

Having read the comments. I have a rare disagreement with Thom Keith. I really like the bass player on Track 13. He reminds me of Buster Williams.

i keep thinking that I know the very fine pianist on Track 13, and that I may have this album! But I just can’t place him or her. It’s a really nice track. I will want to get this album.

[Hardbopjazz]

7 minutes ago, CardinalJazzFan said:

Track 9 is one of my favorite tracks on this Blindfold Test. It starts with a brass choir of sorts, then a swinging vibes solo. The vibes player reminds me of Teddy Charles a little bit but has a smoother, softer attack than Teddy.  The trombonist has a warm sound which reminds me of Willie Dennis. The saxophone player is odd, a unique conception on the instrument. Or else it's Lee Konitz on a day when he had the flu. This sounds like a 1950s to early 1960s West Coast jazz session. I find it immensely appealing.

It's not Lee Konitz. The vibes player is not Teddy Charles. The trombonist is not Willie Dennis.  

[Hardbopjazz]

10 hours ago, CardinalJazzFan said:

Track 10 is really good. The drummer is either Elvin Jones or someone who has listened to a lot of Elvin. I love the two saxophonists. It reminds me of some of Elvin’s albums in the 1968-72 period when he would have two excellent saxophonists in his band. It is not Elvin. It is someone current. The two sax players are also young players.

Track 11: the trumpet player really knows his Miles Davis, really has Miles’ sound down cold. Could it be Wallace Roney? Who else is so close to Miles? The pianist and bassist don’t seem to have the right fee for this kind of music. They are rushing and have s kind of cold sound, which makes me think this was recorded after 2000. Hot Path answered this one. It is Louis Smith, George Coleman and Harold Mabern.

 

[Hot Ptah]

That is very interesting that Track 10 is current. I saw Brian Blade in concert last year and it sounded at least somewhat close to this. I do not know of an officially released album by Brian Blade with a selection like this on it though.

[Hardbopjazz]

11 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

That is very interesting that Track 10 is current. I saw Brian Blade in concert last year and it sounded at least somewhat close to this. I do not know of an officially released album by Brian Blade with a selection like this on it though.

It's not Brian Blade. 

[Hot Ptah]

This Blindfold Test is so intriguing, with hard to find or unreleased recordings by great artists, and mysterious great recordings by artists I can’t figure out.

i can hardly wait to find out what and who that audience recodjng, Track 3, is all about!

Edited February 27, 2018 by Hot Ptah

[Hardbopjazz]

11 hours ago, Hot Ptah said:

This Blindfold Test is so intriguing, with hard to find or unreleased recordings by great artists, and mysterious great recordings by artists I can’t figure out.

i can hardly wait to find out what and who that audience recodjng, Track 3, is all about!

#3 will surprise just about everyone. A hint, some people are born great musicians even before they are of legal age.   

[Hot Ptah]

9 minutes ago, Hardbopjazz said:

#3 will surprise just about everyone. A hint, some people are born great musicians even before they are of legal age.   

That clue makes Stan Getz immediately spring to mind.

[Hardbopjazz]

Just now, Hot Ptah said:

That clue makes Stan Getz immediately spring to mind.

No it's not Stan Getz. 

7 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

That clue makes Stan Getz immediately spring to mind.

Another hint. Summer of 1948 this was recorded. 

[Hot Ptah]

1 hour ago, Hardbopjazz said:

No it's not Stan Getz. 

Another hint. Summer of 1948 this was recorded. 

Is it Sonny Rollins?

 

[Hardbopjazz]

23 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said:

Is it Sonny Rollins?

 

Ding. We have a winner. 

[Hot Ptah]

2 hours ago, Hardbopjazz said:

Ding. We have a winner. 

Wow! That is shocking to me. That is very sly of you, including two very obscure Rollins recordings back to back, from much different eras of his career.