harold in the land of jazz OJC screwup?

[JSngry]

On "Speak Low", my copy has what appears to be a transfer error, trumpet playing over the end of land's solo. Is this a known defect, and what correctives are available to the earnest consumer of and in today's CD marketplace?

[Chuck Nessa]

It's an imperfect edit carried over from my 50 year old stereo lp. I'd be curious to know if it is the same on an original mono pressing.

[JSngry]

Ah, an edit, thanks.

I think I noticed one more somewhere on the record, like a the end of a trumpet note that didn't make sense.

[Pim]

Sounds very strange indeed. It is also on the YouTube version. 

[clifford_thornton]

I don't remember these edits; should probably be listening more carefully. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

yea dog until recently esp w/ blue note but other labels too i didnt realise just how much of my favorite hard bop is "bitches brew" style edited.   i first started realising it when the mobley mosaic had a whole screwy set of peraramaters for one session.....then more recently in a bob cranshaw interview, he goes thru the recording process of 'the sidewinder', were the use of editing factored big in his story.  did this start in the mid 50s?  if you go back a little further i dont think they did this, no?  like say on jazz lps 1950-55, 

[JSngry]

Dick

9 hours ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

yea dog until recently esp w/ blue note but other labels too i didnt realise just how much of my favorite hard bop is "bitches brew" style edited.   i first started realising it when the mobley mosaic had a whole screwy set of peraramaters for one session.....then more recently in a bob cranshaw interview, he goes thru the recording process of 'the sidewinder', were the use of editing factored big in his story.  did this start in the mid 50s?  if you go back a little further i dont think they did this, no?  like say on jazz lps 1950-55, 

Two words - Richard Bock.

[paul secor]

10 hours ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

yea dog until recently esp w/ blue note but other labels too i didnt realise just how much of my favorite hard bop is "bitches brew" style edited.   i first started realising it when the mobley mosaic had a whole screwy set of peraramaters for one session.....then more recently in a bob cranshaw interview, he goes thru the recording process of 'the sidewinder', were the use of editing factored big in his story.  did this start in the mid 50s?  if you go back a little further i dont think they did this, no?  like say on jazz lps 1950-55, 

There are some edits on certain of the Buck Clayton Jam Sessions on Columbia during that period.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

pacific jazz, oh really

[Ken Dryden]

The ultimate foul-up by Richard Bock is the mess he made with Jim Hall's Pacific Jazz album. Editing out many of Carl Perkins and Red Mitchell's solos, then adding the overdubbed drums of Larry Bunker for a later edition. Some people should not be allowed anywhere near editing equipment.

 

[Big Beat Steve]

Talking about editing, wasn't there some rather huge and heavy-handed editing going on with certain Louis Armstrong recordings on Columbia in the 50s? I think Chris Albertson once wrote rather a detailed and acidic piece about this here.

One piece of editing I personally really regret are those jam session recordings by Bird in Sweden in 1950. I think from the first time these were released in 1959/60  the editing was there. I have a Spanish Storyville pressing from the 70s where the liner notes even give details about the Swedish (cream of the crop, mind you) soloists edited out because "of no great interest" - and this by Lars Werner, jazzman, scribe and producer himself! Understandable considering the cult surrounding Bird but still a pity ...

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

On 15/02/2018 at 5:10 PM, Big Beat Steve said:

Talking about editing, wasn't there some rather huge and heavy-handed editing going on with certain Louis Armstrong recordings on Columbia in the 50s? I think Chris Albertson once wrote rather a detailed and acidic piece about this here.

One piece of editing I personally really regret are those jam session recordings by Bird in Sweden in 1950. I think from the first time these were released in 1959/60  the editing was there. I have a Spanish Storyville pressing from the 70s where the liner notes even give details about the Swedish (cream of the crop, mind you) soloists edited out because "of no great interest" - and this by Lars Werner, jazzman, scribe and producer himself! Understandable considering the cult surrounding Bird but still a pity ...

 

 

The unedited Louis Armstrong plays W C Handy is getting on for twice as long as the old LP i used to have. But those were cuts to make the thing fit onto a 12" LP. Why they preferred to issue a 12 track LP rather than two with six tracks I don't know.

MG

[medjuck]

1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

The unedited Louis Armstrong plays W C Handy is getting on for twice as long as the old LP i used to have. 

MG

Is that on a cd?  IIRC there were two different  cd releases of that material. 

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

20 minutes ago, medjuck said:

Is that on a cd?  IIRC there were two different  cd releases of that material. 

Yes. This is what it looks like.

The catalogue number (according to Discogs)  is  CBS 450981 2

I haven't got the actual thing, y'understand.

MG

[medjuck]

Thanks I have that one and also the "corrected" release that matches the Lp (It has the overdubbed cut), but didn't  realize that it was unedited.  I dthought it might become a rarity.  

[danasgoodstuff]

On 1/31/2018 at 11:13 PM, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

yea dog until recently esp w/ blue note but other labels too i didnt realise just how much of my favorite hard bop is "bitches brew" style edited.   i first started realising it when the mobley mosaic had a whole screwy set of peraramaters for one session.....then more recently in a bob cranshaw interview, he goes thru the recording process of 'the sidewinder', were the use of editing factored big in his story.  did this start in the mid 50s?  if you go back a little further i dont think they did this, no?  like say on jazz lps 1950-55, 

Editing was certainly not unknown prior to '69, but In a Silent Way and Bitches took it to another level.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Patti Page!

MG

1 hour ago, medjuck said:

Thanks I have that one and also the "corrected" release that matches the Lp (It has the overdubbed cut), but didn't  realize that it was unedited.  I dthought it might become a rarity.  

The notes say it's as recorded or words to that effect, I seem to remember, though I haven't had a look at 'em to check

MG

[medjuck]

2 hours ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said:

Patti Page!

MG

The notes say it's as recorded or words to that effect, I seem to remember, though I haven't had a look at 'em to check

MG

Just dug it up and looked at the notes.  Six of the cuts are "previously unissued masters"-- which I guess means, alternate takes.  However there's  no suggestion that the originally released cuts were edited.  The alternates are  fairly close to the same length as the originals. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by medjuck