October Revolution in Jazz 1964... Any recordings?

[ghost of miles]

I'm working on a Night Lights show about 1964 and looking for something to represent the October Revolution in Jazz. Have any recordings of performances from the four-day series ever surfaced? I have yet to come across any, and right now I'm leaning towards using something from Bill Dixon's Savoy session recorded earlier in the year. (Also planning on using an Ayler/Cherry track at some point in the show, even though they did not participate in the Cellar Cafe concerts... I think they were in Europe at the time?) The Jazz Composers Guild recorded Communication about half a year later, it appears, although one track was made at the very end of December 1964. Here's an ad that lists the performers for the series (I also came across Dan Morgenstern's contemporary review for Downbeat):

Edited November 10, 2017 by ghost of miles

[ghost of miles]

I might also use something from the Paul Bley Quintet's Barrage, which was recorded just a couple of weeks after the October Revolution in Jazz series.

[HutchFan]

I don't have any suggestions to contribute.  But it sounds like it will be a very interesting program!   

[paul secor]

I wonder what that panel discussion was like. I'd have enjoyed hearing Cecil and Martin Williams - might have been somewhat more of a confrontation than a discussion. But perhaps not.

[jeffcrom]

I think your choices are good. I would point out that the John Tchicai Quartet was the group that shortly thereafter took the name New York Art Quartet. Their ESP album was recorded in November.

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, paul secor said:

I wonder what that panel discussion was like. I'd have enjoyed hearing Cecil and Martin Williams - might have been somewhat more of a confrontation than a discussion. But perhaps not.

I haven't read Morgenstern's contemporaneous account of the festival, but I'll report back once I do and try to scan a copy for this thread.  (Btw the piece does not appear to be included in Living With Jazz.)

1 hour ago, jeffcrom said:

I think your choices are good. I would point out that the John Tchicai Quartet was the group that shortly thereafter took the name New York Art Quartet. Their ESP album was recorded in November.

Yes, I was thinking about using them as well!  I've thought about devoting an entire program to the October Revolution and may still do so at some point, in which case Tchicai/New York Art Quintet, Dixon, Bley, and others would all be included.  I'll also probably do an episode devoted solely to Blue Note recordings from 1964, which produced so many excellent albums. This show will be more along the broader lines of previous The Year In Jazz Night Light shows.  

[alankin]

Sun Ra's Other Planes of There was recorded in 1964.

[Guy Berger]

2 hours ago, alankin said:

Sun Ra's Other Planes of There was recorded in 1964.

underrated album!

[ghost of miles]

1 hour ago, Guy Berger said:

underrated album!

Don't have it, but will check it out, thanks!

[clifford_thornton]

The NYAQ recordings from Four Days In December are part of the Call It Art box on Triple Point.

I'd also check out Dixonia if you haven't yet. Much useful information there.

[mjzee]

Down Beat’s Don Heckman?

[clifford_thornton]

Yep. He was also a saxophonist and co-led a group with Ed Summerlin.

[mhatta]

10 hours ago, alankin said:

Sun Ra's Other Planes of There was recorded in 1964.

Other Planes of There is a great album, but recorded in early 1964.  I guess more representative of Ra's involvement with October Revolution is Featuring Pharoah Sanders and Black Harold.  It was recorded in December 31, 1964 by Jazz Composers Guild.  Unlike Other Planes of There, the latter doesn't include John Gilmore, since he had already left the Arkestra in August 1964 to go the road with Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers(so he didn't participate in October Revolution), and didn't come back until March 1965.  Instead, Pharoah was working with the Arkestra regularly at this period.

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by mhatta

[erhodes]

10 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

The NYAQ recordings from Four Days In December are part of the Call It Art box on Triple Point.

I'd also check out Dixonia if you haven't yet. Much useful information there.

Indeed.  Pages 345-347 have a detailed listing of the bands and some of the sidemen.  The band detail is interesting.

October 1

Joe Manieri

Ali Jackson Quartet

John Tchicai/Roswell Rudd/Lewis Worrel, w/ Milford Graves (d)

Paul Bley Quentet (the "Barrage" band w/ Marshall Allen, Dewey Johnson, Eddie Gomez, Milford Graves)

Jimmy Giuffre (unaccompanied ts)

Charles Wittenberg (b, others?)

 

October 2

Joe Scianni-David Izenson

Julian Hayter (g) Quartet

Martin Siegel (p) Quartet

Bobby Brown (as) Quartet

Alan Silva Trio, possibly Burton Green, Clarence Walker

 

October 3

Giuseppi Logan Trio (but it's a quartet), Lewis Worrell, Don Pullen, Milford Graves

Arthur Keyes (p) Octet

Barry Milroad (p) Duo

Louis Brown (ts) Quartet, possibly Larry Willis (p)

Bill Dixon Sextet w/ Giuseppi Logan, Rob Rolston, Gary Porter, Reggie Johnson, Rashied Ali

 

October 4

Valdo Williams (p) Trio

Ken McIntyre Octet

Sun Ra Sextet

Don Heckman (as) Octet w/ Don Friedman, Alan Silva, Joe Hunt, Sheila Jordan

Midge Pike (b) Duo

Robert Wales (solo p)

Free Form Improvisational Ensemble- John Winter, Gary William Friedman, Burton Greene, Alan Silva, Clarence Walker

 

Of these, only the Dixon set from October 3 is listed as having been recorded.

This is not what folks might expect from, say, a survey of ESP releases from 1964.

Anyone who is interested in the October Revolution, the Four Days In December or the Jazz Composers Guild should be referencing Dixonia.  It's all there.

 

[paul secor]

5 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Yep. He was also a saxophonist and co-led a group with Ed Summerlin.

I recall seeing that group on a late night program on WNET in NY, probably in 1965.  I wonder if a tape of that is still in existence. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that it's not.

Edited November 11, 2017 by paul secor

[ghost of miles]

12 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

The NYAQ recordings from Four Days In December are part of the Call It Art box on Triple Point.

I'd also check out Dixonia if you haven't yet. Much useful information there.

Thanks so much for this tip--I Xeroxed the relevant pages from the reference copy of Dixonia over at the Music Library, and it is indeed useful. Amazing book!  Ben Young strikes again.

Dan Morgenstern's review of the festival actually runs side-by-side with one from Martin Williams.  Of the two I'd say Williams' is more unabashedly enthusiastic, while Morgenstern generally offers praise but tempered with a bit of caution about where these musical directions could lead.  Granted, any perusal of DownBeats from late 1963 and throughout 1964 reinforces the notion that the "New Thing" wasn't new to those on the NYC jazz scene in late 1964.  The absence of Ornette Coleman is also noted by writers from time to time when you glance through the issues from that period.

[bertrand]

Who is/was Ali Jackson?

[paul secor]

14 hours ago, bertrand said:

Who is/was Ali Jackson?

Not sure, but he may have been the father of the now active drummer, Ali Jackson.
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/ali-muhammed-jackson-mn0000003424/biography
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Ali%20Jackson%20(jazz%20drummer

[bertrand]

I was wondering if they were related.

[clifford_thornton]

On 11/11/2017 at 0:16 PM, bertrand said:

I was wondering if they were related.

yes, bassist Ali Jackson is the father of drummer Ali Jackson. Not sure what he was doing in 1964 but he worked with Coltrane and Yusef Lateef in the 50s.

[bertrand]

Just saw that the composer of the title track to Lateef's Prayer to the East record is Ali Jackson, brother of drummer Oliver Jackson. I assume it is the bassist.

It does not look like he recorded with either Lateef or Coltrane. Did he record at all?

Bertrand.

 

[JohnS]

Lord lists three or four sessions by bass player Jackson..  I'm assuming it's the same person.

[clifford_thornton]

yup

[JSngry]

On 11/11/2017 at 9:05 PM, bertrand said:

Who is/was Ali Jackson?

I'll see your Ali Jackson and raise you a Midge Pike. Who the hell was/is that???? I kinda go out of the path whenever confronted with a person named "Midge", it's just one of those names that freezes me up for some reason.

Don Heckman, not so much. I don't know how many records of his own, if any, have been released, but excerpts from this https://books.google.com/books?id=LqTZ6SrMkF0C&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=don+heckman+john+benson-brooks&source=bl&ots=u1BOogOfNM&sig=xqQfWCWqlwkevWtTHtJx6ZSEe84&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj21f2O47zXAhUrhlQKHUDnD84Q6AEIRjAI#v=onepage&q=don%20heckman%20john%20benson-brooks&f=false

probably are the source for what is heard here in excerpts of the audio-collage that is: https://www.discogs.com/John-Benson-Brooks-Trio-Avant-Slant-One-Plus-1-II/release/5535957

This is a record I casually but repeatedly like to throw out there, not because it's "good", but it is definitely interesting. John Benson-Brooks should not be casually dismissed in any way. Just sayin'.

And it's the same Don Heckman who co-produced, annotated, and played clarinet/bass clarinet on BS&T 4, which once you get past it being Blood, Sweat & Tears and all that comes with that, is not at all a bad record. Or maybe it is. But I like it better than any other from this run of the band. So...maybe it is bad, but still, since you asked, yeah, Don Heckman (later long-time music critic for the LA Times, right?) got around more than might be evident to the casual observer, at least as much as Robert Palmer, quite possibly more, and definitely earlier.

People often come with stories, Don Heckman certainly does, so what about Midge Pike?

Also - JIMMY GIUFFRE. That Resonance(?) set of a few years ago, pay attention if not already done, Jimmy Giuffre being there for this was no accident.

 

Also, in my life this remains one of the iconic "jazz" photos, taken shortly after the concerts of the OP:

It didn't/couldn't last in this form, but there they are, look at them and don't be confused, there they are.

[JSngry]

Also related to the "October Revolution" are all those those Fontana dates, if not immediate, in terms of "ripple effect"...this one recorded in part at the 12--29 64 Judson Hall gig:

https://www.discogs.com/Jazz-Composers-Orchestra-Communication/release/2749113

This whole series, get 'em however and in whatever iteration you can...I resorted to those Andlusian bastards for some, so believe me when I tell you that I am no stranger to shame:

https://www.discogs.com/label/303834-Fontana-New-Jazz-Series