Harvey Weinstein story in New Yorker...truly shocking

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

See, you're missing the point. Women are not forcing evolution on us. They are offering us the opportunity to evolve.

Time will tell how that works out on a large scale over a longer window of time, but that's true of everything. Resistance may or may not be futile, but honestly, wouldn't you like to live in a world where suspicion of men in general is not a well-deserved norm? I would. Thus, you have an opportunity to evolve. Use it or lose it, right?

See, and men are offering women the opportunity to evolve too. The need is there too - not as much as for a certain species of men but certain species of women DESPERATELY need to evolve too - and fast. Just as fast as men. Fair and square.

Because - to start at the top of the list of inacceptable behavior - women blaming men for sexual harassment or even violation that never happened have been proven to exist too. On a smaller scale than actual cases of such harassment but they DID happen. And though this is not to discredit any of all the Weinstein victims (or victims of similar actual assaults) one iota it still stands that women have their share of evolutionary effort to undertake too.

I know I did mine. Used it and found it - see above, without even having to force myself - it was pleasant the way it happened and I wouldn't have had it any other way and though I certainly would not consider myself a "softie" I still feel it is nice to see that the women I associate with in my life do not see me as the typical male predator the way they see certain others and just put up with, rolling their eyes either in dismay or in an understandable "he don't know any better" attitude. And I am glad to see that whatever else my son sternly refuses of my advice, this fact of not feeling the need to run after every skirt is one detail I have never even had to force upon him.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

 

Wrong equation. The equivalent would be the women who make remarks to that effect towards a MALE co-worker. Happens everyday, everywhere. Hard-wiredness. On BOTH sides.

As for me, this has been irrelevant for the past 28 years, being self-employed in a 2-person office (my colleague and office partner IS female, 

I find it incredibly interesting that while you openly admit that you've not been in a true office setting in nearly three decades, that you still feel as though you are authoritative enough to make statements like, "happens everyday". 

As someone who currently works in TWO offices I can say, without qualification, that you are completely wrong. No, this does NOT happen everyday because the culture here has changed dramatically. Now, perhaps you and your fellow German men haven't evolved beyond the frat house mentality if early adulthood, but things are much different here. 

Read what Moosely said once more. THAT is what has become the dominant culture in the U.S. these days. 

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

The waitress at the diner just called me a honey, and a cashier at the gas station mentioned that she liked my hair. Do I feel violated, lost and hurt...or what? Help.

What if you did? 

[Dmitry]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

The waitress at the diner just called me a honey, and a cashier at the gas station mentioned that she liked my hair. Do I feel violated, lost and hurt...or what? Help

 

What if you did? 

Then I'd be you?

 

[JSngry]

I have a female coworker who calls me "honey", "sugar", and "dear", even though I've never met her face to face, it's all phone calls and emails, and IMs, and it's only at work. I take it as a sign of she thinks she's putting a velvet glove on what she thinks is an iron fist, but honestly, it comes of like Paula Dean mind-melding with Pearl Bailey, so...am I amused? No. Am I offended? No.

What am I, then?

Employed, paid, and ready to go home at the end of the day. That's what I am.

But in today's climate, if this lady really did make me uncomfortable, I would feel fully empowered to contact HR. Because companies today (ok, some companies) do get that you have a right to not be made uncomfortable in the workplace on personal grounds. We are not there to pursue personal agendas, we are there to work, and to work together. That's what we are paid for, and nothing else. Anything that deters from that is outside the scope of work, and work is what we are there for. It sure ain't for the comfortable furniture and endlessly recycled air.

But, see, that's the thing - I myself am not made uncomfortable by this woman, so I'm not going to complain, or even call it out as some sort of bullshit "men's rights" "double standard" pity party. But if I was truly offended, then yeah. Then it would be real. For me to sit hear and feel put upon is just....lame.

And that's where evolution comes in. I am evolved enough, not just to not be offended, but to respect the possibility that somebody else might be. So no, I'll not be calling HR, but if somebody else really needs to, more power to them. Because the end game is to treat everybody with respect, and a big part of respect is allowing other people their right to be offended without reflexively being offended by their offense. Respecting another person being offended is a big first step towards defusing any further/potential volatility, and that's a first step that seems to be taken less and less these days, imo.

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I find it incredibly interesting that while you openly admit that you've not been in a true office setting in nearly three decades, that you still feel as though you are authoritative enough to make statements like, "happens everyday". 

As someone who currently works in TWO offices I can say, without qualification, that you are completely wrong. No, this does NOT happen everyday because the culture here has changed dramatically. Now, perhaps you and your fellow German men haven't evolved beyond the frat house mentality if early adulthood, but things are much different here. 

Read what Moosely said once more. THAT is what has become the dominant culture in the U.S. these days. 

 

Two offices or not or only a small office - life consists of more. You don't take note of what happens around you - you never find time to talk about professional/office/workplace life with your wife, family, friends, acquaintances? You never notice what others have to say? Are you just not interested enough to interact with others to absorb what they have to tell about how they spend their days in very, very different walks of life? There is PLENTY of input out there - and plenty to learn - if you are willing to listen. From both sides, if you have friends from BOTH "sides of the fence" and try to interact openly and honestly and just plain down-to-earth with them. Which in turn might well make them feel halfway comfortable enough to discuss things with you they might not be discussing with EVERYBODY else out there.

And no - like I hinted at repeatedly in recent posts here today I am not in the slightest surprised about what you describe as the dominant culture in the US these days. But mind you - IMO overall this is no achievement at all to be proud of if taken to such puritan P.C. extremes. By and large and in the majority of situations common sense and decency still do prevail in everyday life in the Western World and are amply sufficient to get along fine, and the efforts required to deal with problems really need to be concentrated on those problems that REALLY and DESPERATELY need to be solved, such as actual cases of sexual harassament and abuse and bullying at the workplace or in opther areas of life in all their forms. I am not conding ANY of such misbehavior. But just trying to be nice and polite and a wee bit "gallant " in everyday situations without even the slightest "ulterior motive" hidden behind it MOST DEFINITELY is not one of these problems. Unless of course you feel comfortable being forced into a behavioral straitjacket.

As for German men "having not evolved beyond the frat house mentality" (I can assure you the sorority mentality among a certain female office worker species is something that has made more than one man blush too), please note that the oft-caricatured US "frat house mentality" never existed here to that extent back then (for lack of frat houses or initiation rites among college students, by and large) and in recent decades has been the source of incessant bewilderment to many from Europe spending time at US colleges and has - apparently correctly so if I am to believe your insinuations - been explained upon their return as everybody taking the opportunity to cut loose once more before puritan post-college life catches up with them for good. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, Dmitry said:

Then I'd be you?

 

I'm sorry, please show me where I said I'd be offended by any of that. 

While you're looking, I'll try to fill in the clueless. It's been very cute watching you and Steve simply dismiss any sense of moral outrage that neither of you happen to share while perched atop the dominant throne of being a white male. Because, hey man, lighten up, right? I mean, you've never been in a position of being "the weaker sex". Neither of you are in the sex that is historically in the overwhelming majority of sexual assault victims. Neither of you are of the sex or race that has been oppressed, harassed, or demeaned by a dominant sex or race. So why is everyone else so uptight?! Right? I mean, how bad could it be. *sly grin*

Hey, babe. I'm just playing around. *wink wink* C'mon, why are you getting upset? *wink & smile*

Sorry Steve, but if you think being polite and respectful towards others in the workplace is puritanical, than you have some astounding personal issues. In a professional environment, stop me if you've heard this one already, you act FUCKING PROFESSIONAL! Maybe your three decades away from workplace informs your "Mad Men was a raging comedy" outlook on things of this nature, but I'd encourage you to grow up and join the 21st century. 

Now, if you have female friends, minority friends, whatever, and you all have that understanding of each other to make otherwise inappropriate remarks/jokes, then by all means, have at it. That's what friends are for, IMO. 

But if you think the only way to have fun in a professional environment is exercising your "right" to "chat up the dames/broads/skirts/bitches" (or whatever your sorry old ass uses as a "term of endearment), then fuck off. Because you're the kind of apologist that allows cats like Weinstein to flourish, and has those he sexually assaulted live in fear of telling their story to the authorities. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

But in today's climate, if this lady really did make me uncomfortable, I would feel fully empowered to contact HR. Because companies today (ok, some companies) do get that you have a right to not be made uncomfortable in the workplace on personal grounds. We are not there to pursue personal agendas, we are there to work, and to work together. That's what we are paid for, and nothing else. Anything that deters from that is outside the scope of work, and work is what we are there for. It sure ain't for the comfortable furniture and endlessly recycled air.

But, see, that's the thing - I myself am not made uncomfortable by this woman, so I'm not going to complain, or even call it out as some sort of bullshit "men's rights" "double standard" pity party. But if I was truly offended, then yeah. Then it would be real. For me to sit hear and feel put upon is just....lame.

And that's where evolution comes in. I am evolved enough, not just to not be offended, but to respect the possibility that somebody else might be. So no, I'll not be calling HR, but if somebody else really needs to, more power to them. Because the end game is to treat everybody with respect, and a big part of respect is allowing other people their right to be offended without reflexively being offended by their offense. Respecting another person being offended is a big first step towards defusing any further/potential volatility, and that's a first step that seems to be taken less and less these days, imo.

See (again) - you are getting closer to what I see as one of the underlying problems.

You admit is is all about feeling offended and the right to feel offended. But how often is it actually a case of feeling "offended" because somebody was just stupid or horny enough to say something truly inappropriate and uncalled for and how often is it a case of somebody thinking and stating "I elect to feel offended now because I want to assert myself" even though the other either was just inept or did mean well and certainly no harm, like in the case of a small, innocent compliment stated in passing?

As for allowing other people their right to feel offended - fine, if you prefer it that way but doesn't this equal the same right to protect oneself against causing offense? So no interaction anymore that might even REMOTELY lead to such a situation that could be held against you at whatever other moment. Which of course INVARIABLY reflects on professional interaction too. Take that lady entering the office building at the same time I enter it. Trying to be polite, of course I hold the door open and let her pass first. Now if this lady takes offense at this because by her own assertion she is perfectly capable of opening the door herself then so be it. Won't happen again. But if, in the course of the day, that same lady should see fit to play the "poor, weak woman" card (of sorts) and ask me to lift or move or carry this parcel or piece of furniture or whatever for her because it is oh so heavy"? Well ... "You know, I certainly would not want to doubt your abilities and am certain you can very well handle this yourself, competent as you are." Which basically amounts to what is not being said but thought: "Fuck you". "Reflexively being offended"? Maybe. But - again - one right is worth another, and if you want to be emancipated then GO THE WHOLE HOG and don't shift your parameters around just however it suits you best. You can't have your cake and eat it. Besides, who could have been sure she would not have held it against you at some other occasion that you tried to help her?
Why am I expanding on this example? Because it has happened to a friend (not exactly the macho type, BTW) not long ago and he WAS offended by her behavior (as evident from the way he told it). The bottom line: This woman did not respect the right of the other person to be offended so it was her who did not defuse things in time.Face the consequences, then. Or step back, breathe deeply and think about what you do and whether whatever the other does is really full of such bad intentions that you have to slap him in the face.

So ... "Today's climate". This is indeed what it boils down to and as the above example shows it happens even over here, feminist fundamentalism carried to its extremes being as it is sometimes. What have we come to? Wouldn't there have been better ways of getting these petty things settled by just interacting with each other in a normal and a bit more easy-going way so the real effort to solve problems can be dedicated to dealing with the REAL problems? Because even your "today's climate" apparently is exceedingly unable to cope with the Weinsteins of this world. (And yes .- I realize this is a clash of cultures between the US and Europe - for worse ...)

[Scott Dolan]

I also find it quite telling that I asked both you and Dimitry some pretty simple questions to consider, yet neither of you chose to answer them. 

If you need the reason why explained to you later, please let me know. 

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Sorry Steve, but if you think being polite and respectful towards others in the workplace is puritanical, than you have some astounding personal issues. In a professional environment, stop me if you've heard this one already, you act FUCKING PROFESSIONAL! Maybe your three decades away from workplace informs your "Mad Men was a raging comedy" outlook on things of this nature, but I'd encourage you to grow up and join the 21st century. 

Now, if you have female friends, minority friends, whatever, and you all have that understanding of each other to make otherwise inappropriate remarks/jokes, then by all means, have at it. That's what friends are for, IMO. 

But if you think the only way to have fun in a professional environment is exercising your "right" to "chat up the dames/broads/skirts/bitches" (or whatever your sorry old ass uses as a "term of endearment), then fuck off. Because you're the kind of apologist that allows cats like Weinstein to flourish, and has those he sexually assaulted live in fear of telling their story to the authorities. 

Like I said, clash of cultures, puritan indeeed. Thoroughly puritan. Creating an icy atmosphere with nothing so much as a single word on a personal level, no matter how fleeting and harmless. I am beginning to realize things are worse in your part of the US than expats returning from the US have described them to be. The words or tone you insinuate I'd use are not ones I'd ever use (nor have ever used). I have always been fairly restrained in these matters and tended towards understatements (if you know what this is). Part of decency IMO too you know. In short, mentioning in passing "hey, you look really elegant tonight" (or "today" or this "morning" orf whenever) or "this is some great dress" (or slacks or hairdo or whatever) is nothing that conflicts with ANY sort of professional or productive cooperation and has of course always been limited to those I know well enough to be passably sure they would understand I am NOT trying to make passes at her or, worse still, would not retort wth a "WHAT? Are you saying I looked like a slob yesterday??". So if you feel you are unable to make well-worded, decent "standalone" (i.e. involving no ulterior motives at all) compliments to a deserving lady beyond the "bitch" level that you allude to then this is your problem, not mine. And not that of most of my fellow countrymen AND -women, luckily. But your loss.

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

I also find it quite telling that I asked both you and Dimitry some pretty simple questions to consider, yet neither of you chose to answer them. 

If you need the reason why explained to you later, please let me know. 

I did reply. Read again.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Like I said, clash of cultures, puritan indeeed. Thoroughly puritan. Creating an icy atmosphere with nothing so much as a single word on a personal level, no matter how fleeting and harmless.

It's not icy at all. That's just a false narrative you are cooking up to deflect from your desire to retain your dominant right to do and say anything YOU deem appropriate. 

I have personal conversations daily with many of my fellow employees, both male and female. See, adults can actually do that without hitting on the opposite sex, out of respect. Adults also realize that umwanted advances in the workplace are just that: unwanted. Need I copy and paste a definition of that for you? 

But, I at least take comfort in the fact that your bullshit apologetics have left you painted so tightly into a corner that now you have to shift the conversation into "nothing so much as a single word on a personal level". 

Misdirection much? 

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

It's not icy at all. That's just a false narrative you are cooking up to deflect from your desire to retain your dominant right to do and say anything YOU deem appropriate. 

I have personal conversations daily with many of my fellow employees, both male and female. See, adults can actually do that without hitting on the opposite sex, out of respect. Adults also realize that umwanted advances in the workplace are just that: unwanted. Need I copy and paste a definition of that for you? 

But, I at least take comfort in the fact that your bullshit apologetics have left you painted so tightly into a corner that now you have to shift the conversation into "nothing so much as a single word on a personal level". 

Misdirection much? 

Greetings to you in that other corner over there as you evidently are just trying to retain YOUR dominant right to say anthing YOU deem approporiate too. Remember -pointing a finger at somebody else means three fingers are pointing back at you.

I know I can walk out of my field without so much as even getting the tips of my shoes wet with paint. It just is a pity that you seem to be unable to refrain from insinuations such as "hitting on the opposite sex". This "hitting" thing - again - is on a level I have never come down to. If, OTOH, you feel even one single, isolated appreciation made using words that won't "hit" on anybody is already a case of "hitting", then, well ... proves my point ... amply ...

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

Then answer my previous question. And if you can somehow muster the strength to do that, then perhaps you could also answer when you felt compelled to tell a male co-worker that HE "looked elegant tonight". 

You can try your feeble best to turn this back on me, but your knuckles are dragging, and don't think I'm the only one who can see that. 

 

4 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

Steve, when was the last time you told a male co-worker how nice he looked? Did you use words like "beautiful", "cute",  or "amazing"? 

Here's the question, once more. 

Try not to sidestep it this time. 

[JSngry]

I do appreciate a sharp-dressed man. Or woman. And compliment as appropriate. But always about the specifics of the attire, because if a dude's got a great tie, hey. and if a chick's rocking a fantaboulous scarf, compliments due. I don't know anybody who tires to look sharp who doesn't appreciate the effort going being noticed, as long as it's directed towards the specific (meaning, you gotta know what you're saying, not just some kind of GAWRSH you shore look purty today, that's just not happening).

Unfortunately, with business-casual (at best) being the norm, not that much opportunity. But sharpness should always be recognized.

But you know, with hi-def today, no excuse for not noticing the nuances of a tie/collar, or a bracelet/necklace combo, or all the other nuances that go into personal expression through wardrobe choices. Just remember - be specific, and make clear that it's the item you're appreciating, not the person you're objectifying. If you can't go beyond generic things like "nice" or "pretty" or some such, either refine your expression or just leave it be.

[lipi]

3 hours ago, Dmitry said:

The waitress at the diner just called me a honey, and a cashier at the gas station mentioned that she liked my hair. Do I feel violated, lost and hurt...or what? Help.

Assuming this was a serious question, I will try to explain. (Note that this has relatively little to do with the origins of this thread. Weinstein wasn't calling anyone honey--he did (or is accused of, if you prefer) quite a bit more and a lot worse than that.)

The waitress did not force you into a sexual act against your wishes. Therefore, there is no case for sexual assault.

The waitress is not in a position of power over you. She cannot fire you, she cannot refuse you a bank loan, etc. She can spit in your coffee--that's about it. Therefore, there is no case for sexual harassment.

What's left is being offended at being talked to like a child or a love/lust interest. And *there* your equivalency does not hold. If you have lived in a culture where men rape, assault, and generally oppress women on a regular basis, then as a woman you are far more likely to feel fear when talked to in a denigrating fashion. Especially since in all likelihood in your own past you have had someone call you (or if not you, your friend) "little lady" right before they grabbed your butt or other more intimate parts.

All that said: if you do feel uncomfortable with your waitress calling you honey (and you're absolutely entitled to!), then would you feel comfortable telling her so? Would you have that conversation? Would you have that conversation with two others at your table? Would you have that conversation if you were in a bar filled with women, all taller, heavier, stronger, and more aggressive than you? What if instead of calling you "honey" she said "I can't wait to tear up that pretty little ass of you, little boy"?

Let's not pretend this thread is about people being called "honey".

[Big Beat Steve]

@Scott D.:

OK, again - I am not biting the way you'd want me to, like it or not. Leaving out the fact that "co-worker" opportunities in the stricter sense of the word are out for the reasons explained, that attempt at an analogy is all skewed. It just happens so (being hard-wired as we are - BOTH ways!) that males do compliment females at times, and vice versa. I did and I do - sometimes (Note: sometimes - not even each week - just when the person and occasion warrants it IMO). The same sort of compliments extended to males is something that just is not usually done the same way. But I DID and do it. More than once. The last time? A couple of months ago, I guess ... Of course in order to cause that kind of reaction among us men we just have to come up with way more (like a buddy who you normally just see in jeans and t-shirts only one day came along wearing a fine pinstriped suit). Sharp, fitting him well, fitting him better than he probably figured himself, so worthy of honest appreciation (by men and women, BTW, even some who knew him only fleetingly, and he did not feel "offended" by what any of us said).

I guess this won't satisfy you for a response either but never mind ... this just is so because your pseudo analogy just isn't one that holds water in the casual way of people of both sexes being able to get along with each other WITHOUT meaning harm and being able to distinguish between when harm is meant and when it is not. An ability apparently lost with some parts of the populace ... Not the problem of most of us (including of the opposite sex) around here.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

Steve, how old are you? 

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

Steve, how old are you? 

Do the maths.

This question has been answered here several times over, including not very long ago.

Older than you. Coming from a different generation than you therefore - yes. But interacting consistently with people from a relatively wide range of ages. Does help understanding, you know.

 

[JSngry]

do you like The Jefferson Airplane? Because, man, their music will really get rid of you hangups, man.

[Big Beat Steve]

2 hours ago, lipi said:

Assuming this was a serious question, I will try to explain. (Note that this has relatively little to do with the origins of this thread. Weinstein wasn't calling anyone honey--he did (or is accused of, if you prefer) quite a bit more and a lot worse than that.)

The waitress did not force you into a sexual act against your wishes. Therefore, there is no case for sexual assault.

The waitress is not in a position of power over you. She cannot fire you, she cannot refuse you a bank loan, etc. She can spit in your coffee--that's about it. Therefore, there is no case for sexual harassment.

What's left is being offended at being talked to like a child or a love/lust interest. And *there* your equivalency does not hold. If you have lived in a culture where men rape, assault, and generally oppress women on a regular basis, then as a woman you are far more likely to feel fear when talked to in a denigrating fashion. Especially since in all likelihood in your own past you have had someone call you (or if not you, your friend) "little lady" right before they grabbed your butt or other more intimate parts.

All that said: if you do feel uncomfortable with your waitress calling you honey (and you're absolutely entitled to!), then would you feel comfortable telling her so? Would you have that conversation? Would you have that conversation with two others at your table? Would you have that conversation if you were in a bar filled with women, all taller, heavier, stronger, and more aggressive than you? What if instead of calling you "honey" she said "I can't wait to tear up that pretty little ass of you, little boy"?

Let's not pretend this thread is about people being called "honey".

THANK YOU! This is what i tried to point out all along. What happend on that Weinstein level is inexcusable and behavior like this really needs to be sanctioned. I fully realize this happens elsewere too and I am NOT condoning it.

But that far, far lower level of the waitress example or the office level example I gave (among co-workers, not bosses playing that "honey" card vs their female employees, i.e. not in cases of one having real power over somebody else) are what have very, very often been lumped into the recent discussions following the "metoo" action, to the consternation not only of males but also of many,many females in forums I have looked at (not exhaustively) here and there. Reason and good judgment going out the window.  Swooping accusations levied at every man in sight. Alienation for the sake of alienation. What for? And this is what I find does the problem of getting hold of the real perpetrators a disservice because it detracts from where things really ought to change.

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

do you like The Jefferson Airplane? Because, man, their music will really get rid of you hangups, man.

Who are you talking to?  I for one can't make much of what they did, sorry. And I certainly don't feel hung up. In fact I have spent a fairly interesting afternoon communicating here because it has given me a lot of insight.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Big Beat Steve

[Dmitry]

3 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

It's been very cute watching you and Steve simply dismiss any sense of moral outrage that neither of you happen to share while perched atop the dominant throne of being a white male.

 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, Big Beat Steve said:

But that far, far lower level of the waitress example or the office level example I gave (among co-workers, not bosses playing that "honey" card vs their female employees, i.e. not in cases of one having real power over somebody else) are what have very, very often been lumped into the recent discussions following the "metoo" action, to the consternation not only of males but also of many,many females in forums I have looked at (not exhaustively) here and there. Reason and good judgment going out the window.  Swooping accusations levied at every man in sight. Alienation for the sake of alienation. What for? And this is what I find does the problem of getting hold of the real perpetrators a disservice because it detracts from where things really ought to change.

Or...consider the possibility the backdrop for all that that many (most?) women have been creeped out enough often enough that their ability to be trusting of possibly innocent(ish) behavior has been, if not destroyed, then at least severely undermined by life experience?

I mean, yeah, nobody likes to be seen as a perpetrator when they're not, but if so many people are complaining so much about this, it seems like there's a good reason other than that "women" are just pissed off because they're just too sensitive or some reductionist avoidance mechanism like that.

[Scott Dolan]

My guess here is that none of the "fuck you, it was meant as a compliment!" contingent here have never felt one second of fear or intimidation at the mere presence of the opposite sex. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[Scott Dolan]

3 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

THANK YOU! This is what i tried to point out all along. What happend on that Weinstein level is inexcusable and behavior like this really needs to be sanctioned. I fully realize this happens elsewere too and I am NOT condoning it.

 

Of course not. But, where you draw the line, and where polite adults draw the line are at odds. And the more you insist on chipping away at polite social norms, the more you're endorsing someone else to take it just a little further. And a little further. 

Yes, sometimes slippery slopes ARE a thing. 

[lipi]

8 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

THANK YOU! This is what i tried to point out all along. What happend on that Weinstein level is inexcusable and behavior like this really needs to be sanctioned. I fully realize this happens elsewere too and I am NOT condoning it.

You ignored my two paragraphs explaining how there absolutely *is* a good reason not to go around calling random women "honey" or "sweetie".  I disagree with your statements in this thread almost entirely, so the all-caps "thank you" is, at best, wildly misleading. See JSngry and Scott Dolan's posts lower down making my point far better and more concisely.

Or this comic, which tries to make the same point:

 

[Chuck Nessa]

This entire topic/thread will provide future researchers an amazing portrait of the (primarily) US/Euro male in the early 21st century.